Argus Posted August 13, 2015 Report Share Posted August 13, 2015 To be fair the Harperites did consult two outside bodies on what jet would be the best to purchase. Unfortunately, they asked the US military and Lockheed Martin. Oddly enough the manufacturer of the jet and the principle client, who benefits greatly if more orders lower production costs, agreed that the F35 should be the only jet in the running. There is still a whole topic devoted to this. Let's not detour this into a second. For the record, however, no one has yet come up with an alternative to the F-35 which would still be competitive with what is flying forty years from now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted August 13, 2015 Report Share Posted August 13, 2015 To be fair the Harperites did consult two outside bodies on what jet would be the best to purchase. Unfortunately, they asked the US military and Lockheed Martin. Oddly enough the manufacturer of the jet and the principle client, who benefits greatly if more orders lower production costs, agreed that the F35 should be the only jet in the running. How much public money has the Harper government spent on partisan ads? How much public money has the Harper government handed out with CPC logos on the cheques or CPC logos on display? Harper has turned Adscam into business as usual. I don't kow where that F 35 file has got to these days. I'm afraid to ask. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted August 13, 2015 Report Share Posted August 13, 2015 Without a proper bidding process? As I recall, what happened was the Liberals let out contracts to advertising agencies for which no work was done! In exchange, come election time, those agencies did 'free' work for the Liberal party. Which means not only was it outright stolen money from the taxpayers but a violation of election spending rules. Not that YOU care. You can google the Gomery just as easily as I can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waldo Posted August 13, 2015 Report Share Posted August 13, 2015 (edited) There is still a whole topic devoted to this. Let's not detour this into a second. For the record, however, no one has yet come up with an alternative to the F-35 which would still be competitive with what is flying forty years from now. oh my! Is/will your favoured "paper-tiger"... fly and handle other nation alternatives... let alone be, as you say, "competitive"? Just speaking for the, as you say, "record"... no need to detour this into a further discussion on the merits of (rather, lack of) the F-35 Edited August 13, 2015 by waldo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted August 13, 2015 Report Share Posted August 13, 2015 Actually, to be honest on all levels, the Liberals did that when they made Canada part of the JSF program for which an open competition was held. Both have to do with bidding process. Or rather, the lack thereof. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWTT Posted August 13, 2015 Report Share Posted August 13, 2015 That depends on the law. To be charged with bribery, you actually have to be trying to, you know, bribe someone. Oh ok so then Duffy knew the cheque that Wright was giving him was a bribe, so he gets charged. Wright claims he didn't know, so he doesn't get charged.(does wright claim he didn't know?) Is that what you are you saying? WWWTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poochy Posted August 13, 2015 Report Share Posted August 13, 2015 How is buying a product that we'd already signed on for in any way comparable to illegally funnelling money to Liberal friendly ad agencies? It isn't, but these people are now on full political hysteria mode, which means that there is no truth except that they themselves decide to fabricate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWTT Posted August 13, 2015 Report Share Posted August 13, 2015 Actually, to be honest on all levels, the Liberals did that when they made Canada part of the JSF program for which an open competition was held. So if someone goes and MURDERS another, you've got the green light to go ahead and MURDER people? WWWTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWTT Posted August 13, 2015 Report Share Posted August 13, 2015 How is buying a product that we'd already signed on for in any way comparable to illegally funnelling money to Liberal friendly ad agencies? And how is addscam related to this link? WWWTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waldo Posted August 13, 2015 Report Share Posted August 13, 2015 Actually, to be honest on all levels, the Liberals did that when they made Canada part of the JSF program for which an open competition was held. is this you being... honest... on all levels? That early participation was simply to be recognized within the interested country grouping... to actually be provided with information related to the progression within the JSF program... Canada provided no monies otherwise and no commitments. Another Harper falsehood, on record, is him saying "the previous Liberal government that in 2002 participated in an international competition to select the next jet fighter.” ... as contradicted by Alan Williams, the former Deputy Minister of the Department of National Defence: “The notion that we competed in 2001 frankly insults us. It’s an insult to our intelligence. That was done by the Americans with the UK… We’re a sovereign country and we have our requirements and our own needs and… we should be able to see whether this aircraft best meets them or not.” So, again... it is Harper Conservatives and their single-sourcing of the F-35... presumably to meet Canada's needs... needs that were never formally defined until DND came under Opposition party pressure to actually define them... after-the-fact! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PIK Posted August 13, 2015 Report Share Posted August 13, 2015 How many millions are being spent as we speak on duffy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Squid Posted August 13, 2015 Report Share Posted August 13, 2015 How many millions are being spent as we speak on duffy. As many as it takes to put the criminal behind bars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overthere Posted August 13, 2015 Report Share Posted August 13, 2015 Let's see, the Gomery Commission concluded that 2 million was spent without a proper bidding process. How many billions was Harper about to throw away on F 35's without any bidding process at all? No that was not the conclusion, Gomery was not permitted to arrive at 'conclusions'. $2 million was what the Liberal Party decided was what they stole And you conveniently missed a couple of zeroes on the $200 million or so sent to lonelyheart Montrteal ad agencies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted August 13, 2015 Report Share Posted August 13, 2015 No that was not the conclusion, Gomery was not permitted to arrive at 'conclusions'. $2 million was what the Liberal Party decided was what they stole And you conveniently missed a couple of zeroes on the $200 million or so sent to lonelyheart Montrteal ad agencies. The federal courts referred to their findings as "conclusions", but you can call them what you wish I guess. And they also exonerated Chretien and Martin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
socialist Posted August 13, 2015 Report Share Posted August 13, 2015 The federal courts referred to their findings as "conclusions", but you can call them what you wish I guess. And they also exonerated Chretien and Martin. Tough week for the Opposition. This was the week they had circled on their calendars for months as Wright was going to reveal the smoking gun that pointed to Harper. Instead, 1. Wright backs up Harper's story under oath. 2. Trudeau has another bozo eruption. 3. Mulcair has two rates for the hired help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted August 13, 2015 Report Share Posted August 13, 2015 Tough week for the Opposition. This was the week they had circled on their calendars for months as Wright was going to reveal the smoking gun that pointed to Harper. Instead, 1. Wright backs up Harper's story under oath. 2. Trudeau has another bozo eruption. 3. Mulcair has two rates for the hired help. This was a discussion about the Gomery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
socialist Posted August 13, 2015 Report Share Posted August 13, 2015 This was a discussion about the Gomery. And I added my thoughts. Maybe you will see the connection while you are dreaming tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topaz Posted August 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2015 If this trial shows that it was not criminal what Duffy and the PMO did but political, then this goes straight back to Harper when he and a number of Conservatives came down on Martin over the Ads scam, that Martin should have known what was going on in the PMO and now Harper's party can eat their own words, but then again, words mean nothing to Harper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keepitsimple Posted August 13, 2015 Report Share Posted August 13, 2015 If this trial shows that it was not criminal what Duffy and the PMO did but political, then this goes straight back to Harper when he and a number of Conservatives came down on Martin over the Ads scam, that Martin should have known what was going on in the PMO and now Harper's party can eat their own words, but then again, words mean nothing to Harper. I see.....so no matter what, in your eyes, Harper is at fault. If Duffy is found "innocent", yet they paid back the taxpayers money anyway because Harper felt that regardless of the legal technicalities, it wasn't right or proper......Harper is still the bad guy....is that right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waldo Posted August 13, 2015 Report Share Posted August 13, 2015 I see.....so no matter what, in your eyes, Harper is at fault. power & politics played a most apropos grouping of past clips today... highlights from the likes of Peter McKay, Jason Kenney... speaking of their Opposition targets following the most pointed line, "if he didn't know, then he's incompetent"! So ya, Simple... even if anyone could actually believe Harper didn't know while all those around him were furiously scrambling to cast a narrative... doesn't that make Harper... in line with those clips... incompetent? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted August 13, 2015 Report Share Posted August 13, 2015 And if Duffy is found innocent? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted August 13, 2015 Report Share Posted August 13, 2015 The federal courts referred to their findings as "conclusions", but you can call them what you wish I guess. And they also exonerated Chretien and Martin. They did nothing of the sort. Nobody talked. That doesn't mean either was "exonerated". It's odd how any slight misdeed from any Tory immediately has you accusing Harper of being responsible, but even a massive, multi-year scandal involving the Liberal Party doesn't equate to the same sort of accusations on your part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted August 13, 2015 Report Share Posted August 13, 2015 If this trial shows that it was not criminal what Duffy and the PMO did but political, then this goes straight back to Harper when he and a number of Conservatives came down on Martin over the Ads scam, that Martin should have known what was going on in the PMO and now Harper's party can eat their own words, but then again, words mean nothing to Harper. Adscam had no relationship to this at all. Adscam was the outright theft of public money in the hundreds of millions to benefit the Liberal party. This is some rich boy in the PMO trying to use his own money to pay off Duffy's expenses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted August 14, 2015 Report Share Posted August 14, 2015 power & politics played a most apropos grouping of past clips today... highlights from the likes of Peter McKay, Jason Kenney... speaking of their Opposition targets following the most pointed line, "if he didn't know, then he's incompetent"! So ya, Simple... even if anyone could actually believe Harper didn't know while all those around him were furiously scrambling to cast a narrative... doesn't that make Harper... in line with those clips... incompetent? I don't care if Harper knew or didn't know. This was a piddling little incident which mattered not at all to the government of Canada. It was a media event and an embarrassment to the Tories, so they tried to pay back the allegedly misappropriated money. Big deal. It's pretty telling that you equate this with a multi-year conspiracy involving a number of LIberal party operatives to spend hundred of millions of taxpayer money on their 'friends' in exchange for kickbacks at election time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keepitsimple Posted August 14, 2015 Report Share Posted August 14, 2015 I don't care if Harper knew or didn't know. This was a piddling little incident which mattered not at all to the government of Canada. It was a media event and an embarrassment to the Tories, so they tried to pay back the allegedly misappropriated money. Big deal. It's pretty telling that you equate this with a multi-year conspiracy involving a number of LIberal party operatives to spend hundred of millions of taxpayer money on their 'friends' in exchange for kickbacks at election time. Exactly. It's also telling that the CBC tried to do the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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