Moonlight Graham Posted March 16, 2015 Report Posted March 16, 2015 With his back to the wall and hours from the election, Bibi has gone back to his true colours; http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/M/ML_ISRAEL_ELECTION?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2015-03-16-14-45-30 Bibi's REAL position is ; no Palestinian State, keep those new settlements going up and the hell with what the rest of the world says. And the USA has been backing this guy for 6 years? The USA has been backing Israel, but the Obama admin clearly disagrees with him on some key issues and they don't exactly have warm relations. So your opinion is that a politician's "REAL" position is the one he hurriedly expresses with a day left before an election? I knew that was Netanyahu's real position years ago. Actions speak louder than words. I'll repeat my 1st comment in this thread from last week: Netanyahu makes it quite clear that he has no aims for peace with Palestinians or neighbouring Muslim countries. He doesn't extend the olive branch, but rather threatens war or makes war, and that has only increased hatred and resentment towards Jews by Muslim peoples and leaders in the region. He's a horrible diplomat. He's a very dangerous man for middle-eastern and global security. I hope his party is trounced in this election. Quote "All generalizations are false, including this one." - Mark Twain Partisanship is a disease of the intellect.
Hudson Jones Posted March 17, 2015 Report Posted March 17, 2015 With his back to the wall and hours from the election, Bibi has gone back to his true colours; http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/M/ML_ISRAEL_ELECTION?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2015-03-16-14-45-30 Bibi's REAL position is ; no Palestinian State, keep those new settlements going up and the hell with what the rest of the world says. And the USA has been backing this guy for 6 years? The comment boards in Washington have exploded in horror over Netanyahu's statement. At least with a facade of a desire for peace, Americans could back Israel. Netanyahu has ripped that away. I hope the people of Israel are aware that a vote for Netanyahu is a vote to sever support from the US. Quote When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always. Gandhi
marcus Posted March 17, 2015 Report Posted March 17, 2015 The comment boards in Washington have exploded in horror over Netanyahu's statement. At least with a facade of a desire for peace, Americans could back Israel. Netanyahu has ripped that away. I hope the people of Israel are aware that a vote for Netanyahu is a vote to sever support from the US. I believe another term for Netanyahu will only fast track the inevitable. Which is the end of status quo. Europe has had enough and the prostitutes in Congress and Senate not included, it looks like the U.S. government is having a difficult time hiding their displeasure towards Adelson's #1 salesman. Quote "What do you think of Western civilization?" Gandhi was asked. "I think it would be a good idea," he said.
marcus Posted March 17, 2015 Report Posted March 17, 2015 This video talks about the elephant in the room that is not talked about in Israeli elections: Quote "What do you think of Western civilization?" Gandhi was asked. "I think it would be a good idea," he said.
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 17, 2015 Report Posted March 17, 2015 It is little wonder that Gaza sucks....the government is run by terrorists !! Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
sharkman Posted March 17, 2015 Report Posted March 17, 2015 I'll be glad when the elections over, all the whining in this thread is embarrassing. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 17, 2015 Report Posted March 17, 2015 Not me....I hope PM Netanyahu wins another term so all the whining gets more extreme. Go Bibi...Go Bibi...Go Bibi !! Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
On Guard for Thee Posted March 17, 2015 Report Posted March 17, 2015 Interesting how Bibi has completely swapped ends on his earlier stance on a 2 state solution. I guess youll try anything when you are going down in flames. Quote
marcus Posted March 17, 2015 Report Posted March 17, 2015 Not me....I hope PM Netanyahu wins another term so all the whining gets more extreme. Go Bibi...Go Bibi...Go Bibi !! I kind of do too. This will speed up the process of Israel's isolation. Europe, Israel's #1 trading partner can no longer pretend that Israel is not totally messed up. Not with the masses in Europe, speaking out against it. Go Bibi!! Take the ship down with you!! Quote "What do you think of Western civilization?" Gandhi was asked. "I think it would be a good idea," he said.
Rue Posted March 17, 2015 Report Posted March 17, 2015 (edited) The Palestinians don't need a perfect deal, but they need a fair deal they can live with. Territory wasn't the only sticking point in the last round of talks, as you state they were only disagreeing on a small bit of territory. There are differences over the rights of Palestinian refugees to return (or be compensated) to their homes/land in what is now Israeli territory. ( Let's not forget that in 1948, following an illegal attack by Palestinians and neighbouring Arab states, Israel illegally occupied and annexed land where majority of Arabs lived and which was accepted by Israel to be Palestinian land under the UN Resolution 181 and many Arab civilians were permanently driven out/fled). The deal Israel had on the table called for any Palestinian state to be de-militarized. When Israel can secretly have nukes, and Palestine can't even have a tank, it sounds like the occupation would continue under another name. Palestinians have never gained any territory through war, and without its own military, that will never happen. In a perfect world, some kind of deal would be better than no deal, but I have little faith that anything in Palestine's favour could be worked out after an initial deal, other than very minor details. As far as I know most Jews were happy with the 1948 UN partition plan, and Zionists lobbied hard for the members of the General Assembly to pass it. Seems about right since, according to Wikipedia, Jews at the time made up 33% of the population in Mandatory Palestine but only owned 7% of the land. You live in a make believe land that suspends any knowledge or willingness to acknowledge that the script you repeat is just not relevant. 1. Israel does not secretly have nukes. The Arab world has known Israel has had nukes since the early 1960's-it is no secret-the fact Israel does not openly refer to them is to prevent the Arab world from saying Israel threatens them with such weapons-Israel built an aresenal when the Soviets repeatedely threatened to nuke Israel when it was allied with Egypt, Syria and Iraq during the 1960's-the nuclear capability of Israel has never been a factor in Arab-Israeli stand alone conflicts, it was a factor in Israeli-Soviet confrontations during the 67 and 73 wars and it was the US that had the Soviets step down from using their weapons-at one point a renegade Colonel in the Soviet Army threatened to launch nuclear weapons against Israel and Breshnev and Kromyko barely managed to regain control-there are rumours that the Soviets had nuclear missiles in both Syria and Egypt at one point-it was the US behind the scenes that talked everyone down from a world nuclear catastrophe; 2. the deal to demilitarize the PLO-how about you read it-you clearly have not-it called for the disarming of Fatah, Al Asqa Martyrs-you even know who they are? They were not military-they were terrorist cells-they were never a military-they had no chain of command-they were a loose knit of terror cells, each with an appointed leader-they followed no rules and they were not even accountable to Arafat-they did what they wanted-this is why the treaty called for their being disarmed-Arafat needed it if he was to actually rule a Palestinian nation-of course in your make beleive world, Israel initiated that-no Arafat did, and Jordan also wanted it-of course Israel wants terror cells disarmed-how does one run a country where they remain outside that country's laws-what you think the state of anarchy in Lebanon where Hezbollah is a law to itself is a way to build a nation? Could you please read the treaty-it also called for the training of a PLO paramilitary police force-in fact Araft used that treaty provision to rearm terrorist cells and break the treaty he signed; 3.You talk of compensation for Palestinians who left Israel. Right. You also remain silent about the 900,000 Jewish refugees thrown out of Arab countries, of whom 700,000 fled to Israel and amount to more then the alleged numbers of Palestinians displaced. What about them? Why is it people like you skip over that? Why is it you believe dispossessed Palestinians as you call them should get compensation but Jews from Arab countries forced to flee to Israel after all their belongings were seized are not entitled to anything hmmm? Yah, you keep selectively revising the script and pose Arafat as a statesman looking after the needs of his people. Thats nice. Real nice. He was offered 97% of the land he asked for a state on, then turned around and told the world he was bargaining in bad faith all along and the US and Israel should realize he would only accept a Sunni Sharia law state in all of Israel, Jordan, the West Bank and Gaza. This is a man created by a KGB script and propped by La Deuxieme Bureau for French and Soviet purposes. He never had full control of Fatah let alone the PLO. The PLO was a Western media tool. It was easier to say PLO then try figure out the over 500 terror cells each with its own leader whose only thing in common was destroying Israel and Jordan. You also completely ignore in your fantasy script the fact that JORDAN, yes JORDAN, was as much a player in the Israel-Palestinian conflict as Israel, and under no circumstance would agree to armed terrorists in the West Bank and after Arafat tried to kill Hussein, considered him the enemy and was not interested in any deal with him as they considered him a liar. For that matter in your convenient fantasy script you make no mention of the fact that Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Syria wanted nothing to do with Arafat, Sadaam Hussein despised him and the only reason he was able to get the support he did from the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt and the clerical council in Iran was because of his drug kick back connections. Why don't you go find out how Arafat made a living and what he did with his drug money and for that matter all the foreign aid money he syphoned off..go on...see what this leader of Palestinians did with the money-he didn't build a nation-he didn't reach out to Israel-he made it clear every chance he got that he would not stop until Israel was wiped off the map. But there you are playing this game he was simply concerned about an unfair deal. Go on read the rhetoric of Arafat. It hasn't changed. Its repeated daily on this forum by "Marcus" and "Hudson Jones" and the other Anglo sounding pen names. Nothing has changed. The rhetoric is the same calling for the demise of Israel. Go on point to one Palestinian spokesperson in their alleged governments today who will recognize Israel as a Jewish state. Go find one and get back to me. Good luck. One other thing this as far as you know jews were happy in 1948 with the UN partition plan-no you don't know. You have no clue. Of course they were not happy. They were agreeing to less than 5% of the land originally promised them for a country. Why would they have been happy? What a stupid thing to say. The fact that they were willing to accept such a small sliver of land was done based on desperation-they had millions of holocaust survivors with no place to go. Your ignorance of Jewish history passed off as presumption as to what Jews felt is typical-stop trying to pass off knowledge of something you don't have. No Jews were not happy. They had no choice. It's 2015 and Middle East experts such as yourself will not acknowledge that nothing has changed since 1948-you still will not find an Arab politician who would dare say he or she supports the right of Israel to be a Jewish state and that if this was done, and terrorists were disarmed, there would be peace in weeks. Edited March 17, 2015 by Rue Quote
sharkman Posted March 17, 2015 Report Posted March 17, 2015 I kind of do too. This will speed up the process of Israel's isolation. Europe, Israel's #1 trading partner can no longer pretend that Israel is not totally messed up. Not with the masses in Europe, speaking out against it. Go Bibi!! Take the ship down with you!! Yeah, Israel should get wiped off the map, right? Quote
marcus Posted March 17, 2015 Report Posted March 17, 2015 Yeah, Israel should get wiped off the map, right? Oh looky! I thought it was Rue's job to put words in people's mouths. The terrible colonial experiment of Israel is too far in to have it removed. I think the occupation and the land grab should end and Israel should be forced to follow international law. Quote "What do you think of Western civilization?" Gandhi was asked. "I think it would be a good idea," he said.
jacee Posted March 17, 2015 Report Posted March 17, 2015 Oh looky! I thought it was Rue's job to put words in people's mouths. The terrible colonial experiment of Israel is too far in to have it removed. I think the occupation and the land grab should end and Israel should be forced to follow international law. What?! Israel follow the law?! What a novel concept! ? Quote
GostHacked Posted March 17, 2015 Report Posted March 17, 2015 Well then Israel needs to come clean with it's nuclear weapons program. And you know they did not develop it on their own. They had huge help from some key players in the West. Also kind of ironic to complain about Iran's nuclear program and the help they are getting from places like India and Russia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolphin-class_submarine The Dolphin 2-class are the largest submarines to have been built in Germany since World War II.[3] The Dolphin class boats are the most expensive single vehicles in the Israel Defense Forces and are considered among the most sophisticated and capable conventionally powered submarines in the world.[6] The Dolphin-class replaced the aging Gal-class submarines, which had served in the Israeli navy since the late 1970s. Each Dolphin-class submarine is capable of carrying a combined total of up to 16 torpedoes and SLCMs.[7] The cruise missiles have a range of at least 1,500 km (930 mi)[8] and are widely believed[9][5][10] to be equipped with a 200-kilogram (440 lb) nuclear warhead containing up to 6 kilograms (13 lb) of plutonium.[11][12] The latter, if true, would provide Israel with an offshore nuclear second strike capability.[13][14][15][16] Quote
Rue Posted March 17, 2015 Report Posted March 17, 2015 Oh look the Zionist Poo Poo Ka Ka Choir is singing Hava Nagillah again. Quote
marcus Posted March 17, 2015 Report Posted March 17, 2015 Oh looky! The Zionist apologist, twitching at the sight of reality and dripping with double standards is at it again! Quote "What do you think of Western civilization?" Gandhi was asked. "I think it would be a good idea," he said.
Rue Posted March 17, 2015 Report Posted March 17, 2015 So let me get this straight Marcus. Your writings are reality and when I read them, I twitch. That's an interesting theory. All this time I thought it was my prostate. Thanks. Quote
Rue Posted March 17, 2015 Report Posted March 17, 2015 Now getting back to the actual thread nothing will change. Netanyahu will retain his coalition. There will be close to an even split between him and Likud and the Labour-Kadima. There might be a chance the opposition could find enough left of centre party members to try challenge him but its doubtful. Quote
jacee Posted March 17, 2015 Report Posted March 17, 2015 (edited) http://www.cbc.ca/m/news/world/israeli-election-benjamin-netanyahu-declares-victory-isaac-herzog-disputes-claim-1.2998727 Two polls showed the parties deadlocked with 27 seats each, and a third gave Likud a slight lead of 28-27. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has called the election a 'great victory' for his party - though opponents said the question of who will form the next government is not yet settled. (Sebastian Scheiner/Associated Press) Herzog, disputed Netanyahu's victory claim in Israel's election on Tuesday, saying "everything is open". I would say it's a clear victory for a more balanced approach. . Edited March 18, 2015 by jacee Quote
sharkman Posted March 18, 2015 Report Posted March 18, 2015 Oh looky! The Zionist apologist, twitching at the sight of reality and dripping with double standards is at it again! Wow, that's some poorly worded english there, brother! We all know if Bibi loses the election you'll be amped up. Nice ploy to project joy at the thought of him winning, we'll understand if you're bummed for the next couple of weeks. Quote
Moonlight Graham Posted March 18, 2015 Report Posted March 18, 2015 You live in a make believe land that suspends any knowledge or willingness to acknowledge that the script you repeat is just not relevant. 2. the deal to demilitarize the PLO-how about you read it-you clearly have not-it called for the disarming of Fatah, Al Asqa Martyrs-you even know who they are? More recent negotiations have called for any Palestinian state to be demilitarized. That's my point. Prove me wrong. 3.You talk of compensation for Palestinians who left Israel. Right. You also remain silent about the 900,000 Jewish refugees thrown out of Arab countries, of whom 700,000 fled to Israel and amount to more then the alleged numbers of Palestinians displaced. What about them? Why is it people like you skip over that? Why is it you believe dispossessed Palestinians as you call them should get compensation but Jews from Arab countries forced to flee to Israel after all their belongings were seized are not entitled to anything hmmm? Obviously it's horrible that Jews have been chased out of countries. And yes, they deserve compensation from those countries. I'm not sure how it relates specifically to a 2-state deal between Israelis and Palestinians though. Israel shouldn't be able to demand land from Palestinians to replace land stolen from Jews in Saudi Arabia etc. Yah, you keep selectively revising the script and pose Arafat as a statesman looking after the needs of his people. Thats nice. Real nice. That's a lie. Arafat was bad for the peace process, as I clearly stated. It's 2015 and Middle East experts such as yourself will not acknowledge that nothing has changed since 1948-you still will not find an Arab politician who would dare say he or she supports the right of Israel to be a Jewish state and that if this was done, and terrorists were disarmed, there would be peace in weeks. That's definitely a possibility. But not with Netanyahu at the helm. Quote "All generalizations are false, including this one." - Mark Twain Partisanship is a disease of the intellect.
Moonlight Graham Posted March 18, 2015 Report Posted March 18, 2015 (edited) Now getting back to the actual thread nothing will change. Netanyahu will retain his coalition. There will be close to an even split between him and Likud and the Labour-Kadima. There might be a chance the opposition could find enough left of centre party members to try challenge him but its doubtful. Do you support Netanyahu and his policies? Would you vote for Netanyahu if you lived in Israel? Edited March 18, 2015 by Moonlight Graham Quote "All generalizations are false, including this one." - Mark Twain Partisanship is a disease of the intellect.
GostHacked Posted March 18, 2015 Report Posted March 18, 2015 Oh look the Zionist Poo Poo Ka Ka Choir is singing Hava Nagillah again. From the Netenyahu Over Patriotism thread. Now I will make a point of filing a complaint since I have been told to dos o when I think someone is engaging in personal attacks but before I do I think it important to point something out. I wonder if this kind of behavior is preventing new members from participating in some threads. Quote
jbg Posted March 18, 2015 Report Posted March 18, 2015 (edited) The New York Sun asks, in an editorial (link to article, excerpts below) “(w)ill Obama Concede” to Netanyahu. Obama essentially campaigned for Herzog, Netanyahu's opponent. A funny thing happened on the way to the forum; the IIsraeli electorate didn't enjoy foreign guidance. It may be too soon to say who won the election in Israel but it’s not too soon to say who lost — President Obama. The President threw his personal prestige, and that of his office, into undermining and defeating Prime Minister Netanyahu. Acolytes of the president were thronging to an electioneering operation called V15 in the hopes of delivering the premiership to anyone but the leader of the Likud. ************************ More broadly though, it looks like what happened is that a hardheaded electorate, in a vibrant democracy, endorsed two broadly centrist factions. Mr. Netanyahu of Likud and Isaac Herzog of the Zionist Union both were buoyed by that instinct. So, as we see it, no matter what happens, Mr. Obama’s attempt to paint Mr. Netanyahu as a marginal, rejectionist figure is shown for what it is — a mark of disrespect for Israel itself. He should have stood on the sidelines.Will Mr. Obama concede his error? From prior experience with Israel's actions, they have something in mind. I was right in 1976 when an Israeli friend was upset that Israel was negotiating with the hijackers who took the Air France plane, via Tripoli, to Uganda. We all know what happened next. The Israeli people ratified Netanyahu's hard line both on Iran and on Obama. I expect that Israel will strike, either covertly or overtly, against Iran's program. Netanyahu, in my opinion called the election to gain such approval, much the way Mulroney made the 1988 election a referendum of CAFTA. Edited March 18, 2015 by jbg Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
Moonlight Graham Posted March 18, 2015 Report Posted March 18, 2015 I expect that Israel will strike, either covertly or overtly, against Iran's program. Netanyahu, in my opinion called the election to gain such approval, much the way Mulroney made the 1988 election a referendum of CAFTA. And Mulroney was vindicated in his support for the Canadian Antique Fishing Tackle Association. Quote "All generalizations are false, including this one." - Mark Twain Partisanship is a disease of the intellect.
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