Quebec Man Arrested For Withholding Phone Password

[nerve]

So in other words you can not find the section in the Charter where it's written.

Therefore no link.

WWWTT

In other words I told you four places.

[nerve]

Privacy is a fundamental right where privacy is expected. Everyone has a degree of expectation to non invasive interaction.

"men and institutions remain free only when freedom is founded upon respect for moral and spiritual values"

Ex. Do not open up a tent which is not yours because it brings shame.

If government arbitrarily acts against people that others cannot it is a violation of morality, and unconstitutional.

Privacy is included as security of person and liberty.

Our information is our property and protected from search and seizure.

The act of search entails privacy as a right.

The act of search where privacy is a reasonable expectation should create a state of detainment which invokes right to counsel.

Blanket violations are not acceptable.

the right protecting the "psychological integrity" of an individual. That is, the right protects against significant government-inflicted harm (stress) to the mental state of the individual. (Blencoe v. B.C. (Human Rights Commission), 2000)

It all comes down to weather searching someone's smartphone/storage device is routine or extensive.http://en.m.wikibooks.org/wiki/Canadian_Criminal_Procedure_and_Practice/Search_and_Seizure/Print_version

Factors

Factors considered in R. v. Edwards[1]:

A reasonable expectation of privacy is to be determined on the basis of the totality of the circumstances.[2]

The factors to be considered in assessing the totality of the circumstances may include, but are not restricted to, the following:

presence at the time of the search;

possession or control of the property or place searched;

ownership of the property or place;

historical use of the property or item;

the ability to regulate access, including the right to admit or exclude others from the place;

the existence of a subjective expectation of privacy; and

Regulated access is the key, it was not open or public and intentionally protected, meaning an expectation of confidentiality.

Computers and Electronic Devices

Home and personal computers are imbued with a high degree of privacy due to the frequency that it contains intimate correspondence, financial, medical, or personal information. In addition to our personal interests and tastes.[1] According to the Morelli court, the level of privacy does not get much higher.[2]

He should have been given access to counsel before demands were made or arrest occurred, as he was detained.

Memory Sticks

In R. v. Tuduce, 2011 ONSC 2749, the court said that a search of a memory stick has a REP and so requires a search warrant.[1]

[WWWTT]

To WWWTT - What I think makes no difference to the argument.

Ok very well then.

I suspect you disagree with my aggressive approach and do not want to stir the pot/rock the boat.

Or you're just doing exactly what you are claiming and you've moved on after extracting all the value from this debate.

WWWTT

[WWWTT]

In other words I told you four places.

Ya if you were ever charged for something similar as in this case, I don't think you'll fair well.

WWWTT

[nerve]

Ya if you were ever charged for something similar as in this case, I don't think you'll fair well.

WWWTT

But only because they don't follow the law and it is a farce. I have nothing to hide.

I dont use a cell.

Good luck getting useful info out of my Globalstar1600 sat phone.

Edited March 10, 2015 by nerve

[WWWTT]

But only because they don't follow the law and it is a farce. I have nothing to hide.

I dont use a cell.

Good luck getting useful info out of my Globalstar1600 sat phone.

Oh ok then I see your perspective.

Fair enough then and good luck in your debate here.

WWWTT

[On Guard for Thee]

Still waiting little buddy.

But take all the time you like.

Oh and next time you re enter Canada, don't forget to be very polite and do everything you are told!

WWWTT

And heres why:

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-52.6/page-64.html#h-76

[nerve]

And heres why:

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-52.6/page-64.html#h-76

What goods are you hiding in the data of a cellphone?

Sure there may be a bus in there but it is what carries the data not the other way around.

What is he acting as a coyote for pigmy illegals or something?

The halluciongenic effect of occulus rift has been put on schedule I or something.

No it must just be the scratch and sniff sticker on the case giving the Wiener doggy a false positive, sure he is clawing at the thing but its probably only episodes of Alf I was playing waiting in line.

No officer there is no cocaine in my gmail.

Yes I am just happy to see you, oh that, no really.

Yes my phone is there to insure no one walks into it except my boyfriend.

Are you sure you want to hold it?

Well I know there are only 50 people waiting behind me, but do you want to see senior frogs and cocobongo pictures... yes and hooters too right, and the 5$ heroine addicted transvestite that robbed me, right up until I caught it dangling.

_-------

What does it have to do with stopping smuggling of goods?

Edited March 10, 2015 by nerve

[On Guard for Thee]

What goods are you hiding in the data of a cellphone?

Sure there may be a bus in there but it is what carries the data not the other way around.

I was replying to a bit of a thread drift involving the ability of customs to search your bags.

[nerve]

I was replying to a bit of a thread drift involving the ability of customs to search your bags.

Nah bag searches are considered routine.

[On Guard for Thee]

Nah bag searches are considered routine.

So maybe you can go and convince WWWTT of that.

[Queenmandy85]

Perhaps seaches of electronic data pertains to anti-terrorism or child pornography investigations?

[LemonPureLeaf]

Perhaps seaches of electronic data pertains to anti-terrorism or child pornography investigations?

All you need to do is sanitize your phone before taking the trip then let them search it all they want.

[nerve]

So maybe you can go and convince WWWTT of that.

The exception is diplomats.

[Boges]

DON'T have an unlocked smartphone ... or laptop.

.

I'm talking about unlocked, as in not restricted by your telecom carrier. You can switch in and out SIM Cards. It's what I use when I travel.

[mrmarconi]

This thread has been interesting, all this bravado and big talk and everything. Makes me wonder how much some people have travelled or not.

Having crossed borders in quite a few countries, it's obvious, You should expect to be searched coming or going and act accordingly. Know the laws,

content on your computer that is legal here, may not be there, and anything that is sensitive simply should be left at home and accessed remotely.

Now that I'm not crossing the border 20+ times a year, and its been a few years, maybe things have changed, but I doubt it. Like any cop, If you're a dick, they throw the book at you. Not that I agree, but in these situations, they hold the upper hand, and no matter how big you think your junk is, that's the case.

I kind of wonder what this guy's behaviour was like. This is the sort of charge that gets trumped up when you piss off the cops.

What *WILL* be interesting though, is this may test if you can be compelled to share a password.

I'm sure some of you have been through the back room interview and search a few times, and you are told to unlock your bags if they are (or hand over the number if it's numerical).



-----
Excerpt from the Customs act:

(1) An officer may search

• (a) any person who has arrived in Canada, within a reasonable time after his arrival in Canada,
  

  • (b) any person who is about to leave Canada, at any time prior to his departure, or

  • (c) any person who has had access to an area designated for use by persons about to leave Canada and who leaves the area but does not leave Canada, within a reasonable time after he leaves the area,

[Topaz]

Here's a question...would VIP's or politicians be included on this....I doubt.

[overthere]

Now that I'm not crossing the border 20+ times a year, and its been a few years, maybe things have changed, but I doubt it. Like any cop, If you're a dick, they throw the book at you. Not that I agree, but in these situations, they hold the upper hand, and no matter how big you think your junk is, that's the case.

I kind of wonder what this guy's behaviour was like. This is the sort of charge that gets trumped up when you piss off the cops.

You're wrong there. Cops are trained to bully people into compliance with their orders. You do not have to be a dick, but you risk nothing by refusing to be bullied. And they have no book to throw if you have done nothing wrong, or when entering your own country you have nothing illegal . Simply entering your own country is not a crime, and there is no reason to submit to bullying so they can establish their supposed command of your person.

I answer questions with short truthful answer when asked with civility by cops or CBSA. If the questions exceed their brief or have no relevance, then I tell them that. The respinse is alwas the same- they get back to the business at hand instead of playing mind games. There is no 'upper hand', simply an exchange between civil servant and citizen. Once everybody realizes that, there is no strife.

[LemonPureLeaf]

I travel extensively due to the nature of my employment and I can promise you that I wouldn't be employed for long if I made trouble at the border and got continuously arrested so I could take some sort of moral stand. Either that or I'd be given less responsibility that would include no travel. I enjoy the travel portion if my job as it affords me the opportunity to see things I may not normally see.

I urge people to just sanitize their phones before travel get on with your life. Not everything is worth getting in a twist over. It would seem that some people have little to do but be in a constant state of panic.

I simply don't have the time nor inclination to protest every little thing. I applaud those that do, I guess. My time is valuable and expensive so I'll continue on.

Edited March 10, 2015 by LemonPureLeaf

[Smallc]

Here's a question...would VIP's or politicians be included on this....I doubt.

It happens often to VIPs, yes.

[The_Squid]

It happens often to VIPs, yes.

The concern over VIPs is just silly jealousy...

Yes, certain gov't officials will not have to stand in line with us little-people... but whatever. They are not a security risk nor are they the duh-heads that try and import some sort of foreign carrot with bugs crawling all over it...

less risk = get through faster.

[guyser]

You're wrong there. Cops are trained to bully people into compliance with their orders. You do not have to be a dick, but you risk nothing by refusing to be bullied.

For the most part I happen to agree, however there are scenarios that can arise and give pause to anyone.

And they have no book to throw if you have done nothing wrong, or when entering your own country you have nothing illegal . Simply entering your own country is not a crime, and there is no reason to submit to bullying so they can establish their supposed command of your person.

There are rules or laws on the book that they can invoke at whim, but thankfully they dont.

If there is anything in the car that they may suspect was not purchased in Canada prior to departure, or not noted outgoing, such items include (but not limited to) computers laptops, jewellry, watches Elec games and the like. So if one acts like a dick he may have to prove that he owned these things prior to departure from Canada.

If one cant....then they are kept until such time as you can produce evidence or fofeited to the Gov.

I answer questions with short truthful answer when asked with civility by cops or CBSA. If the questions exceed their brief or have no relevance, then I tell them that.

Most people do...except those internet warriors who think its funny to try and BS the rest of here. Edited March 10, 2015 by Guyser2

[guyser]

Here's a question...would VIP's or politicians be included on this....I doubt.

They all go through the same process as anyone else but perhaps are at times given leeway should the officials in charge know who they are.

A CBSA guy in Toronto may not have a clue who some of them are coming thru.

Diplomats have immunity for the security pouches they carry. Supposedly they canot be opened nor inspected although I recall a Diplomat got busted bringing in mutliple pounds of gold to India. COnfiscation resulted but he was let go.

[nerve]

Perhaps seaches of electronic data pertains to anti-terrorism or child pornography investigations?

That is RCMP not customs. RCMP should get a warrant.

Customs cant search people for criminal evidence, they can search for customs violations.

There is a reason search warrants are required.

How the hell would customs have suspicion a person returning to Canada is a led unless they mile high with an not so high partner on the return flight.

Customs searches arnt suppose to be arbitrary. Customs ain't cops they are customs.

http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/security-securite/arr-det-eng.html

Arrests: How and why

CBSA officers can arrest foreign nationals and permanent residents who are suspected of breaching IRPA.

CBSA officers must have a warrant to arrest a permanent resident or a person who is found to be in need of Canada's protection. CBSA may arrest a foreign national with or without a warrant.

All immigration warrants are entered into the Canada-wide Canadian Police Information Centre database. The CBSA operates its own Warrant Response Centre seven days a week, 24 hours a day, to carry out its immigration enforcement mandate.

Detentions: How and why

Following a person's arrest, CBSA officers can detain that person if they have reasonable grounds to believe that the person is inadmissible for any of the following reasons:

the person is unlikely to appear for an immigration proceeding such as an examination or an admissibility hearing, or for removal from Canada;

the person is a danger to the public; or

the person is unable to satisfy the officer of their identity; or

the person is designated as part of an irregular arrival by the Minister of Public Safety.

Detention at port of entry

CBSA officers at a port of entry can detain someone for reasons other than those listed above. Officers can also detain a permanent resident or a foreign national at a port of entry for the following reasons:

It is necessary for the completion of an examination; or

There are reasonable grounds to suspect that the person is inadmissible on grounds of security, violating human or international rights, serious criminality, criminality, or organized criminality.

Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms

Whenever an individual is arrested or detained, the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms requires that a CBSA officer inform the individual of the reasons for their arrest or detention, their right to legal representation and their right to notify a representative of their government that they have been arrested or detained.

My point is that he should have been provide counsel prior to the demand to provide the device password as there was a reasonable expectation of privacy in regard to the storage device, as such he was detained and should have has counsel before the point of arrest occurred. He was not provide legal advice in regard to the situation by counsel.

Edited March 10, 2015 by nerve

[guyser]

That is RCMP not customs. RCMP should get a warrant.

If Customs asks for a laptop to be turned on, or cell phone, and neither passowrd protected then they can search all they want.....

Customs cant search people for criminal evidence, they can search for customs violations.

...and should they find evidence of a crime they can arrest. Same as a Border Guard can arrst you for drunk driving, although they do turn you over to locals for processing.

There is a reason search warrants are required.

For some things yes

How the hell would customs have suspicion a person returning to Canada is a led unless they mile high with an not so high partner on the return flight.

Customs searches arnt suppose to be arbitrary.

No idea what you wrote here.