C-51 RCMP/Harper Anti-fossil fuels lobby = Terrorism?

[LemonPureLeaf]

Let me repeat the point you seem to have (conveniently) missed, current laws are sufficient. No need to put our freedoms or privacy at risk for a set of laws that many experts have deemed to be ineffective. As has been pointed out many times here, support for the bill plummets as people actually assess it.

The law is passing. Not much people can do about it. The average Canadian wants something done. I don't know anyone who's against it really. It seems it's only the NDP base who is against it. Not surprising...they oppose anything the Tories do regardless of what it is.

Your or my freedom or privacy will not be compromised. Just blatant fear mongering on your part. Stop reading Rabble. They aren't a balanced news source guys.

[On Guard for Thee]

The law is passing. Not much people can do about it. The average Canadian wants something done. I don't know anyone who's against it really. It seems it's only the NDP base who is against it. Not surprising...they oppose anything the Tories do regardless of what it is.

Your or my freedom or privacy will not be compromised. Just blatant fear mongering on your part. Stop reading Rabble. They aren't a balanced news source guys.

Do you seriously think that the huge drop in support for the bill could come solely from NDP supporters. I know all kinds of people who are against it, and guess what, some of them are CPC supporters. You should maybe get out more often. With the majority Harper has, yes the bill will be rammed through. Some of the most egregious parts have been amended but I still doubt it will make it past the SCC the first time it is challenged there. I think the average Canadian wants there to be a better balance between being safe and being spied upon.

[Keepitsimple]

The law is passing. Not much people can do about it. The average Canadian wants something done. I don't know anyone who's against it really. It seems it's only the NDP base who is against it. Not surprising...they oppose anything the Tories do regardless of what it is.

Your or my freedom or privacy will not be compromised. Just blatant fear mongering on your part. Stop reading Rabble. They aren't a balanced news source guys.

Yep. Polls are driven by leading questions. As you say, when most Canadians are asked the simple question "should we do more to combat terrorism?" - the answer is a resounding yes. Drilling down with leading questions always leads to NIMBYism. People want to battle Climate Change - but don't want to increase gasoline prices by 25%. They want gas plants - but not near their home. Social Housing? Not in their neighborhood. Trade alarmist "rights" for more security? - of course not! Scare tactics from the Left - average Canadians see through it.

[PIK]

On guard for thee, I and many don't believe a word you say anymore.

[jacee]

Do you seriously think that the huge drop in support for the bill could come solely from NDP supporters. I know all kinds of people who are against it, and guess what, some of them are CPC supporters. You should maybe get out more often. With the majority Harper has, yes the bill will be rammed through. Some of the most egregious parts have been amended but I still doubt it will make it past the SCC the first time it is challenged there. I think the average Canadian wants there to be a better balance between being safe and being spied upon.

I don't think it got amended. Harper disagreed.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/politics/with-support-from-liberals-conservatives-pass-controversial-anti-terror-bill-1.2362432Prior to the vote, the Opposition New Democrats voted noisily -- and in vain -- in favour of proposed amendments that they say would have added a level of oversight and stronger privacy protections, among other things.

It remains an attack on environmental, Indigenous and other activists ... who break a law , any law including a municipal bylaw: Protesting by walking in the street? You can be treated as a terrorist under this law.

bill-c-51-has-potential-to-scoop-up-aboriginal-rights-activists

Nobody is going to argue that we don't need to defend ourselves against terrorists, but the language of this bill is so broad the definition of "terrorist" is watered down to individuals that practise their legal right to dissent.

There are numerous simmering disputes all across Indian country, and if demonstrations occur in the future, how will they be treated under this legislation?

One thing starts to emerge as we look at this ominous bill. The government is preparing an arsenal of legislation to counteract future action by First Nations people to protect our land, resource and environmental rights.

Edited May 7, 2015 by jacee

[On Guard for Thee]

I don't think it got amended. Harper disagreed.

bill-c-51-has-potential-to-scoop-up-aboriginal-rights-activists

Nobody is going to argue that we don't need to defend ourselves against terrorists, but the language of this bill is so broad the definition of "terrorist" is watered down to individuals that practise their legal right to dissent.

There are numerous simmering disputes all across Indian country, and if demonstrations occur in the future, how will they be treated under this legislation?

One thing starts to emerge as we look at this ominous bill. The government is preparing an arsenal of legislation to counteract future action by First Nations people to protect our land, resource and environmental rights.

I thought they had agreed to change a bit o the wording here and there, such as removing legal as a modifier to protest, but maybe not. Elizabeth May apparently tweeted today...see you in the slammer. Or maybe it should have been CSIS you in the slammer.

[jacee]

I thought they had agreed to change a bit o the wording here and there, such as removing legal as a modifier to protest, but maybe not.Elizabeth May apparently tweeted today...see you in the slammer. Or maybe it should have been CSIS you in the slammer.

You're right, some minor changes were made. "Lawful" was removed. We might get away with protesting in the streets.

No increased oversight of CSIS, though.

Harper has full control of all CSIS operations.

.

Edited May 7, 2015 by jacee

[On Guard for Thee]

You're right, some minor changes were made. "Lawful" was removed. We might get away with protesting in the streets.

No increased oversight of CSIS, though.

Harper has full control of all CSIS operations.

.

Thats one of the bits that concerns me a lot. If this bill doesnt have the potential to disrupt the our charter rights, then why the opposition to allowing oversight to ensure that. I think if I was a judge I would be shuddering at the thought of what type of warrants I might be asked to grant.

[jacee]

Thats one of the bits that concerns me a lot. If this bill doesnt have the potential to disrupt the our charter rights, then why the opposition to allowing oversight to ensure that. I think if I was a judge I would be shuddering at the thought of what type of warrants I might be asked to grant.

Yes it will be interesting to see what judges do with it.

A lot of the bill could get thrown out by Supreme Court challenges, but that's a lengthy and expensive process and many peoples' rights will be denied before that can happen.

Edited May 7, 2015 by jacee

[On Guard for Thee]

Yes it will be interesting to see what judges do with it.

A lot of the bill could get thrown out by Supreme Court challenges, but that's a lengthy and expensive process and many peoples' rights will be denied before that can happen.

Indeed. I am not totally up to speed on exactly what changes were accepted, but the original language basically allowed that if CSIS could convince someone MIGHT commit a crime, they could be detained for 7 days right off the bat, as long as they were not killed or sexually assaulted. Sounds more like some weird movie script than Canadian law.

[jacee]

Welcome to the infiltration/surveillance/instigator world of C51:

Cops posing as ...

JOURNALISTS

http://www.theguardi...MP=share_btn_fb

Gee ... I guess that was cops throwing bottles at cops during the G20 Toronto.

Did they burn the car too?

.

Edited May 12, 2015 by jacee

[jacee]

Oh and ... wait for this one:

Using one of Harper's new favourite toys ...

PAIN COMPLIANCE TORTURE

on pipeline protesters:

http://www.tarsandsblockade.org/suecops/

On Septmeber 25, 2012 Benjamin and Shannon locked themselves to KEYSTONE XL construction machinery outside Winnsboro, Texas and delayed pipeline construction for most of the day. Police began using aggressive pain compliance tactics when a senior TRANSCANADA supervisor arrived and actively encouraged it. Torture tactics included sustained chokeholds, violent arm-twisting, pepper spray, and multiple uses of tasers, all while blockaders were in handcuffs.

Immediately following a consultation with TRANSCANADA supervisors, law enforcement handcuffed the protesters free hands to the excavator in a position behind their backs in stress positions, and then subjected them to repeated torture tactics. Four police officers participated while TRANSCANADA employees stood by and watched.

Mmhm ... Yay TRANSCANADA PIPELINE CO !!

You da bitch!

Get the cops to torture those terrorists!

Coming soon to a pipeline protest near you.

I'll bet Harper's going to get off on watching the torture videos. :/

http://www.vice.com/en_ca/read/anti-oil-activists-named-as-national-security-threats-respond-to-leaked-rcmp-report-968

As the Harper government's Bill C-51 moves to extend anti-terrorism legislation to include anyone who interferes with the "critical infrastructure," "territorial integrity," or "economic and financial stability of Canada," a leaked report from the RCMP's Critical Infrastructure Intelligence Team ...

The leaked intelligence report from early 2014 observes a "growing international opposition" to Canada's tar sands and focuses on "violent aboriginal extremists," anti-fracking, and anti-pipeline activists, identifying them as threats to national security.

...

... anti-Canadian petroleum movement, that consists of peaceful activists, militants and violent extremists, who are opposed to society's reliance of fossil fuels,"

... increasingly threatened, by violent extremists ...

As the RCMP's report presents "violent aboriginal extremists" with "anti-petroleum ideology" as key national enemies...

... Publication of some of these ideas may soon be a crime in and of itself.

As examples of "criminal extremism," the report provides the anti-fracking protests in Elsipogtog, New Brunswick, the Swamp Line 9 pump-station occupation in Hamilton, Ontario, and resistance to the Northern Gateway pipeline in British Columbia. The RCMP also raise concerns about the earliest attempts to organize opposition to TransCanada's Energy East.

THE ONLY VIOLENCE

AT ANY OF THOSE

WAS INITIATED

BY THE POLICE!!!

.

Edited May 12, 2015 by jacee

[jacee]

canada-more-at-risk-from-environmentalists-than-religiously-inspired-terrorists-rcmp/

It is interesting to see the tone of the document, and how the RCMP underlines the oil sands and pipelines are essential for the Canadian economy, he said.

Taken into consideration with the [reports] conclusion that stress the threat of unlawful incursions, the document underlines that the major concern from these national security agencies is the disruption of business operations not terrorism.

So now the RCMP defines terrorists as anybody disrupting business operations.

Seems pretty broad to me.

And ridiculous.

It isn't up to the RCMP to decide which businesses are necessary to the Canadian economy.

And it shouldn't be up to Harper either, who is well known to have hissy fits about Indigenous and other environmental activists who are succeeding in building awareness and strength across the country.

Opposition to oil sands expansion, fracking etc. is now mainstream thought.

Harper and his hard line money bags cabal are a very small minority ... who want to put their opponents in jail.

And now they have the law to do it.

.

Edited May 20, 2015 by jacee

[Keepitsimple]

canada-more-at-risk-from-environmentalists-than-religiously-inspired-terrorists-rcmp/

So now the RCMP defines terrorists as anybody disrupting business operations.

Seems pretty broad to me.

And ridiculous.

It isn't up to the RCMP to decide which businesses are necessary to the Canadian economy.

And it shouldn't be up to Harper either, who is well known to have hissy fits about Indigenous and other environmental activists who are succeeding in building awareness and strength across the country.

Who should it be up to?

[jacee]

Who should it be up to?

It's a stupid law.

It should be scrapped.

Industry is responding to protests from affected communities.

That's as it should be.

No political or police interference needed.

.

Edited May 19, 2015 by jacee

[jacee]

/fossil-fuel-companies-getting-10m-a-minute-in-subsidies-says-imf

This very important analysis shatters the myth that fossil fuels are cheap by showing just how huge their real costs are. There is no justification for these enormous subsidies for fossil fuels, which distort markets and damages economies, particularly in poorer countries.

[On Guard for Thee]

Oh yeah, Harper had ad has plans for C51 that have nothing to do with saving us from Omar Khadr but the tin hat dolts that make up his base bought it. This is only the beginning. Trudeau deserves a swift kick for supporting it even though he says he will amend it if elected. I guess he assumed there may be some of those tin hat wearers who are slightly disillusioned that he could appeal to.

[eyeball]

What the hell is with the IMF these days? Between slagging Big Oil and their recent epiphany on income gaps and capital's global assault on labour it's as if it's been taken over by terrorists or the NDP or something. I thought they were Big cheerleaders for Big Money.

I recall how the IMF's prescriptions were cited and even lauded by DFO during the development of Ottawa's privatized market market based solution to fisheries quota allocation - a development that resulted in me being paid .15 a lb for halibut and the millionaire DFO created being paid $3.65. I had to pay my crew, my bills, myself out of my share...but I guess he had to pay Ottawa, his lobbyist, accountant and lawyer out of his so...

That was pretty much the last time I went fishing for a living.

[jacee]

What the hell is with the IMF these days? Between slagging Big Oil and their recent epiphany on income gaps and capital's global assault on labour it's as if it's been taken over by terrorists or the NDP or something. I thought they were Big cheerleaders for Big Money.

The "1%" aren't so popular anymore.

I recall how the IMF's prescriptions were cited and even lauded by DFO during the development of Ottawa's privatized market market based solution to fisheries quota allocation - a development that resulted in me being paid .15 a lb for halibut and the millionaire DFO created being paid $3.65. I had to pay my crew, my bills, myself out of my share...but I guess he had to pay Ottawa, his lobbyist, accountant and lawyer out of his so...

That was pretty much the last time I went fishing for a living.

[jacee]

Alberta really gets it now.

ALBERTA OIL MAGAZINE:

First Nations, the law and the importance of listening

You know that old saying that its better to ask for forgiveness than permission? Well, when it comes to the relationship between industry and First Nations, it really couldnt be much further from the truth. Indeed, doing business by asking for forgiveness rather than permission is a pretty good way to ensure that youll get neither

Indigenous Peoples have powerful influence on resource industries.

And in many cases industry can work with Indigenous communities for mutual benefit.

Rachel Notley gets that:

To Albertas Indigenous peoples, the trust that we have been given tonight is a call to be better neighbours and better partners. And I am looking forward to consulting with you and learning from you, said Notley in her victory speech.

It seems like Harper's 'best before' date is past, his brand is not 'on trend', his aggressive and adversarial approach to 'relationships' with Indigenous Peoples is out of tune with the reality of their legal rights to have a say in development and a share in revenues.

He got the RCMP all stoked for the new 'Indian Wars' ... has them bleating asinine fearmongering 'reports' about the Idle No More "bacteria and 'violent Aboriginal extremists'.

All of it ... yesterday's idiocy.

Today ... and I predict from now on ... provinces - who control resource development - won't be wading into

any confrontations with Indigenous rights.

Harper is just a relic now.

So is Bill C51.

.

[GostHacked]

Let's throw this in here, but I feel I need to start another thread on it.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/spy-agencies-target-mobile-phones-app-stores-to-implant-spyware-1.3076546

Their actions here are putting more people at risk than the ones they want to target.

Electronic intelligence agencies began targeting UC Browser — a massively popular app in China and India with growing use in North America — in late 2011 after discovering it leaked revealing details about its half-billion users.

Their goal, in tapping into UC Browser and also looking for larger app store vulnerabilities, was to collect data on suspected terrorists and other intelligence targets — and, in some cases, implant spyware on targeted smartphones.

The 2012 document shows that the surveillance agencies exploited the weaknesses in certain mobile apps in pursuit of their national security interests, but it appears they didn't alert the companies or the public to these weaknesses. That potentially put millions of users in danger of their data being accessed by other governments' agencies, hackers or criminals.

"All of this is being done in the name of providing safety and yet … Canadians or people around the world are put at risk," says the University of Ottawa's Michael Geist, one of Canada's foremost experts on internet law.

Who knows if they are targeting Canadians with this adventure.

[PIK]

10 more arrested trying to go to the ME. These laws are needed for now.

[marcus]

10 more arrested trying to go to the ME. These laws are needed for now.

You live in fear and your fear enables them to sell anything to you. Including C51, which does nothing to protect you.

[On Guard for Thee]

10 more arrested trying to go to the ME. These laws are needed for now.

You appear to have missed the point that these kids were caught without these new laws.

[Topaz]

Question if people feel terror or fear from the actions of the Tories, does that make them a terrorist group under THEIR law?