.

[overthere]

good catch there Argus.

[Argus]

When you are suggesting a significant policy change then, yep, it is.

He didn't announce any policy change.

[On Guard for Thee]

He didn't announce any policy change.

Outlawing the niqab in the public service is. If he tries it it will likely just lead us into yet another costly court battle. Hopefully he won't get the chance.

[scribblet]

I understand that academics and scientists are thinking people - who use intelligence and logic to come to conclusions. And I understand how threatening those things are to Harper and the religious right.

Seriously - then your understanding is sadly lacking.

[CITIZEN_2015]

A very interesting article to read!!!

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/canada-elections-anti-muslim-prejudice-is-a-nasty-theme-of-campaigning-as-the-liberal-nations-a6688476.html

Canada elections: Anti-Muslim prejudice is a nasty theme of campaigning as the liberal nation's democracy loses its way

Instead of ensuring Canada’s place in the world, its long-standing traditions of UN peacekeeping and its multicultural, democratic inheritance, Harper’s mob has spent the past four years abandoning Canada’s partnership in nuclear disarmament negotiations and development links to Africa, has lost a traditional Canadian seat on the UN Security Council and ignored the debate over climate change. In their place, the Prime Minister has brought in new laws to limit personal freedom, to prevent Canadian expatriates from voting after five years abroad; he has divided his countrymen and women into “old-stock Canadians” and new citizens, demonised as anti-Semitic anyone who criticised his approval of Israeli policies and launched a legal campaign against one of only two women in four years who sought to wear a niqab, a face covering, during her citizenship ceremony.

While joining Washington’s fruitless bombing campaign against Isis, Harper signed off on a £10bn arms contract to supply armoured vehicles to Saudi Arabia, a country from which massive funding has found its way to Islamist groups in both Syria and Iraq which Harper regards as enemies.

“The niqab is a distraction – a culture war fabricated to take voters’ minds off the real issues in this election,” the centre-rightToronto Globe and Mail announced in an editorial. “Don’t fall for it. Wearing a veil is one thing – wearing a blindfold is another altogether.” But Canadians may indeed be falling for it.

Edited October 11, 2015 by CITIZEN_2015

[Argus]

Outlawing the niqab in the public service is. If he tries it it will likely just lead us into yet another costly court battle. Hopefully he won't get the chance.

He announced no such policy.

[On Guard for Thee]

He announced no such policy.

He has said at least twice now he will consider creating a bill similar to Quebec's Bill 62 at the national level. Doesn't look like he will get the chance though so no worries.

[Argus]

A very interesting article to read!!!

An ignorant opinion without facts and you think it's interesting? Why? Do you always find garbage opinions exciting to read?

Let's recap about this niqab issue. According to the central Canada chattering classes, Harper has scandalized Canada by bringing up the niqab over and over again and using this as a tool to smear Muslims.

And yet, as far back as 2013 huge numbers of Quebecers were supporting the PQ and its values charter which would ban the wearing of the niqab just about anywhere public. Polls taken well before the election started, six months or even a year ago, showed massive numbers of Canadians wanted the niqab banned in citizenship ceremonies. Support is virtually non-existent, and confined mostly to fundamentalist Muslims and the central Canada media elites. A global news poll In MARCH showed support for banning the niqab at 88% across the country. Recent polls show Liberals, NDP, BQ, Green and Tory supporters all in favour of the ban.

.

All the muss and fuss over the past month has not been because of Harper and his conservatives, but the horrified, uber politically correct media elites in central Canada, mostly in Toronto. Every political panel can talk of nothing else. Every reporter and columnist is spilling out breathless, scandalized prose on how horrible Harper is for... for... reflecting the will of the people, and not denouncing them instead.

As I've said before, all this shows is how wide and deep the gulf is before the pampered, self aggrandizing media elites and their inbred opinions, and the actual people of this country they disdain and look down on. Harper isn't leading the parade, he's simply jumped on the bandwagon. So you people here have to admit it's not Harper you hate, it's Canadians.

So maybe you should answer the question. Why do you hate Canadians?

[On Guard for Thee]

An ignorant opinion without facts and you think it's interesting? Why? Do you always find garbage opinions exciting to read?

---SNIP---

Speaking of opinion without facts, you obviously don't know much about Quebec's Bill 62 if you think it banned the niqab in public. Edited October 12, 2015 by Charles Anthony
[---SNIP---]

[CITIZEN_2015]

An ignorant opinion without facts and you think it's interesting? Why? Do you always find garbage opinions exciting to read?

Let's recap about this niqab issue. According to the central Canada chattering classes, Harper has scandalized Canada by bringing up the niqab over and over again and using this as a tool to smear Muslims.

And yet, as far back as 2013 huge numbers of Quebecers were supporting the PQ and its values charter which would ban the wearing of the niqab just about anywhere public. Polls taken well before the election started, six months or even a year ago, showed massive numbers of Canadians wanted the niqab banned in citizenship ceremonies. Support is virtually non-existent, and confined mostly to fundamentalist Muslims and the central Canada media elites. A global news poll In MARCH showed support for banning the niqab at 88% across the country. Recent polls show Liberals, NDP, BQ, Green and Tory supporters all in favour of the ban.

.

All the muss and fuss over the past month has not been because of Harper and his conservatives, but the horrified, uber politically correct media elites in central Canada, mostly in Toronto. Every political panel can talk of nothing else. Every reporter and columnist is spilling out breathless, scandalized prose on how horrible Harper is for... for... reflecting the will of the people, and not denouncing them instead.

As I've said before, all this shows is how wide and deep the gulf is before the pampered, self aggrandizing media elites and their inbred opinions, and the actual people of this country they disdain and look down on. Harper isn't leading the parade, he's simply jumped on the bandwagon. So you people here have to admit it's not Harper you hate, it's Canadians.

So maybe you should answer the question. Why do you hate Canadians?

I did concede that niqab issue has widespread support in Canada and Quebec including myself but what I clearly said first of all IT IS A NON-EXISTENCE issue as no one in Public Service wears niqab and in citizenship only TWO women have been affected so the conservatives are focusing on an issue that does not exit to build support and second, they are playing the politics of divide and conquer and that is evil. It is a very good article that confirms what many Canadians including opposition leaders are saying and all is true.

The conservatives have been playing the politics of FEAR and DIVISION and PERSONAL ATTACKS and that is BENEATH CONTEMPT. They so NOT deserves Canadian votes. They clearly demonstrated that they do not deserve to be in the government. The politics of fear and division is well known to all readers here as as for the politics of ridiculous personal attacks new in my list, the recent example of Greg Goodyear calling Trudeau a supporter of genital mutilation is contemptible

The incumbent went so far as to say Justin Trudeau by supporting the niqab is in favor of female genital mutilation – a suggestion that brought boos from the audience and a shocked response from May.

http://www.cambridgetimes.ca/news-story/5952081-niqab-debate-offers-heated-moments-during-cambridge-candidates-forum/

After all the evil deeds they have committed past many years it would be a DISGRACE to the greatinternational reputation of Canada and great reputation of peace loving passionate Canadians is God forbid and bite my tongue this party is reelected into government again.

Edited October 11, 2015 by CITIZEN_2015

[Argus]

Speaking of opinion without facts, you obviously don't know much about Quebec's Bill 62 if you think it banned the niqab in public.

I didn't say it did. Apparently reading comprehension is not your best subject.

Edited October 11, 2015 by Argus

[On Guard for Thee]

I didn't say it did. Apparently reading comprehension is not your best subject.

"And yet, as far back as 2013 huge numbers of Quebecers were supporting the PQ and its values charter which would ban the wearing of the niqab just about anywhere public."

[Argus]

IThe conservatives have been playing the politics of FEAR and DIVISION

No, they haven't. As I said 95% of all the wind on this subject is coming from the politically correct Toronto media and its acolytes. I never hear Harper speaking about it except when the media brings it up, which they do incessantly. I mean, how many columnists need to weigh in on how horrified they are that Harper dares to question the sheer wonderfulness of the niqab? Apparently all of them. How many times do CBC panels need to discuss this? Apparently several times a day, EVERY day.

The big fufurah is not coming from Harper. It's coming from the inbred, incestuous national media headquartered in Toronto, who are so uber politically correct they're in collective apoplexy over the issue and won't shut up.

[Argus]

"And yet, as far back as 2013 huge numbers of Quebecers were supporting the PQ and its values charter which would ban the wearing of the niqab just about anywhere public."

It would have banned the wearing of the niqab both by any government employees, including teachers, but in any government buildings or in interaction with government employees, including schools, hospitals, etc, by the public. You are picking nits.

[ToadBrother]

No, they haven't. As I said 95% of all the wind on this subject is coming from the politically correct Toronto media and its acolytes. I never hear Harper speaking about it except when the media brings it up, which they do incessantly. I mean, how many columnists need to weigh in on how horrified they are that Harper dares to question the sheer wonderfulness of the niqab? Apparently all of them. How many times do CBC panels need to discuss this? Apparently several times a day, EVERY day.

The big fufurah is not coming from Harper. It's coming from the inbred, incestuous national media headquartered in Toronto, who are so uber politically correct they're in collective apoplexy over the issue and won't shut up.

First of all, no one is defending the niquab, that is just you invoking a straw man.

And of course the Tories have been fanning the flames. Mulcair, I'm sure, wishes the whole topic would disappear, because it has done him serious damage. So really even your claim the other parties are responsible is ludicrous

[CITIZEN_2015]

What are you saying Argus!!!!. You put risk losing a little credibility you have left with with comments like that. For example only Yesterday Joe Oliver (likely instructed by PM) playing politics of fear saying that if Trudeau is elected thousands of jobs will be lost and all CTV commentators said that no one is listening to these fear mongering conservative comments anymore. It is true that his economic plan would create a deficit which for an economy of this size 10 billion is not significant but fear mongering that Trudeau election causes thousands of job losses is a clear fear mongering. And under his watch just last month, over 60,000 full time jobs were lost and only seventy thousand much lower paid part time jobs created. Really!!!!!!.

Oliver said:

Oliver repeated that what the Conservatives have dubbed the "Trudeau-Wynne tax" would hurt the wallets of middle-class Canadians. Oliver said Trudeau "endorsed" Wynne's pension plan earlier this spring, and warned it could be used as a model for the rest of the country if the Liberals come to power.

"One could surmise that this plan could kill over 100,000 jobs. This would be terrible for Canadians, it will send shock waves throughout our economy," the Conservative candidate said.

The Ontario Liberals responded to Oliver's remarks Saturday afternoon.

"The ORPP is a savings plan for Ontario workers designed to help them achieve retirement security. Joe Oliver is simply wrong when he calls it a tax," they said in a statement.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-election-2015-joe-oliver-liberal-pension-1.3266143

As for politics of division, it is clear to everyone that they have used race and religion ad ethnicity to divide and conquer. I don't have to include new evidence for any of that. It is shameful that a government o Canada would resort to such things.

Edited October 11, 2015 by CITIZEN_2015

[dialamah]

You are picking nits.

That's right, only Argus, Conservative Extraordinaire, can pick nits to deny/obfuscate/mislead/revise facts -- all in defense of Harper. No wonder people think Conservative supporters come from the lower end of the intelligence scale.

[On Guard for Thee]

It would have banned the wearing of the niqab both by any government employees, including teachers, but in any government buildings or in interaction with government employees, including schools, hospitals, etc, by the public. You are picking nits.

A ban for public service personnel is a quite a bit more of a "nit" than "anywhere in public". Don't think it's my reading comprehension.

[Big Guy]

Racism, be it overt, implied or rationalized is wrong.

"So engaging in racist behavior, and rationalizing one’s racist thoughts makes perfect sense from the perspective of people hoping to improve their status, relative to a despised “other.” Likewise, for whites who have accumulated various advantages and privileges, racism (and the rationalization of the same) becomes a mechanism by which those advantages can be justified, and viewed as earned, as opposed to being the outcome of an unfair process of unequal opportunity. Not to mention, the rationalization of racism becomes a means to maintain those advantages and privileges, and to protect them from being “taken.” After all, civil rights protections force more equal opportunity and fairer competitions, both of which, by definition, reduce the hegemony of white dominance, and force whites, for the first time, to compete openly for things they would have simply been given before. If persons of color can be denigrated, however, and made to shoulder the blame for their economic condition and status in society, the pressure to equalize opportunity is lessened, and white privilege is maintained. So the logic of racism, in a profoundly unequal society, is nearly unassailable, at least at first blush."

It took years for Gays and Gay marriage to pass through the bigots and racists before it became acceptable.

Dr. Charles Socarides, Former NARTH President
“Homosexuality is a psychological and psychiatric disorder, there is no question about it. It is a purple menace that is threatening the proper design of gender distinctions in society.”

John Paulk, Focus on the Family
“We say God did not intend anyone to be this way – to be gay or lesbian.”

Same baseless arguments are being used to-day against niqab wearing women.

[Argus]

First of all, no one is defending the niquab, that is just you invoking a straw man.

It's a very careful tiptoe around the subject of supporting what is the symbol of misogyny, but I've seen the panel shows and read the columns. The media elites are outraged that anyone dares to question the wearing of the niqab, dares to suggest there could be anything wrong or backward about what it represents, dares to challenge it. I think Andrew Coyne's head will explode with the sheer outrage he shows if he keeps showing up to talk about it.

They might not 'like' the niqab, but they are outraged anyone dares to question it. That is what it means to be politically correct, like my little allegorical story a few pages back.

[Argus]

What are you saying Argus!!!!. You put risk losing a little credibility you have left with with comments like that. For example only Yesterday Joe Oliver (likely instructed by PM) playing politics of fear saying that if Trudeau is elected thousands of jobs will be lost and all CTV commentators said that no one is listening to these fear mongering conservative comments anymore. It is true that his economic plan would create a deficit which for an economy of this size 10 billion is not significant but fear mongering that Trudeau election causes thousands of job losses is a clear fear mongering.

Why is telling the truth fear-mongering? Increasing taxes always cost jobs. That's especially so on business. Among Trudeau's plans is a carbon tax, which, like Mulcair, he isn't honest enough to explain to you in advance. But it will be another added cost on business and will unquestionably cost jobs. No economist will tell you otherwise.

Further, despite the way you and others seem to be taking it, he's not giving away free money. Borrowed money has to be repaid eventually, and since he's spending it on expanding government programs, the only way to wind up paying for that in the long term is increasing taxes. As for the Ontario pension plan, that will unquestionably cost jobs. All payroll taxes cost jobs, because it means every time a business hires another person he has to pay more to the government for pensions, unemployment, workers compensation, etc.

This is basic, bedrock economics, and the Liberals, both federally and provincially, in Ontario, are counting on the economic ignorance of people like you.

Edited October 11, 2015 by Argus

[The_Squid]

Increasing taxes always cost jobs.

Cite.

[Argus]

A ban for public service personnel is a quite a bit more of a "nit" than "anywhere in public". Don't think it's my reading comprehension.

You wouldn't be able to go to the hospital, or a school, or university, or any government agency or building, or be employed there. The ban was not merely for public service personnel it was for anyone interacting with them, and for ALL state agencies.

[Argus]

Cite.

Are you so fundamentally ignorant that you don't understand the basic correlation between the input costs to a business, and the success and thus job creating ability of business?

[On Guard for Thee]

Why is telling the truth fear-mongering?

---SNIP---

That's funny, economists tell us how successful the carbon tax has been here in BC. However, that's off topic. Edited October 12, 2015 by Charles Anthony
[---SNIP---]