Israel's war crimes in Gaza

[bush_cheney2004]

I can't bother wasting my breath on you. You're a spoiled privileged brat as is apparent from your utter ignorance of your own fortunes. I don't believe you'd last a day in the 'privileged' Palestinian camps.

Really ? Personal attacks ? Playing your game, the oh so hard done by Palestinians wouldn't last a day in Haiti, but the Haitians are not launching rockets or exploding suicide bombs. Not even after Canada plotted to depose their elected president.

Why do the Palestinian terrorists continue to pursue failed policies when faced with legal "war crimes"?

Edited March 4, 2016 by bush_cheney2004

[Rue]

.Mayer In post 773 you stated:

“ I have zero concern to care what roots people have I as I judge each person independently and NOT based on any of

their preferred associations.”

I would expect for you to come on this board and be dismissive of other peoples' origins and history.

I would expect for you to openly brag about being a closed minded person who chooses to be ignorant of others.

Of course you have no concern.

Your dismissal I would contend is indicative of your lack of empathy, and your contempt and disrespect for other peoples' cultures.

I don’t doubt that.

However when you come on this board and call Argus a spoiled privileged brat and call him ignorant you should

take a look at your own attitude displayed towards others and your own self admitted decision to remain ignorant of

others.

My continuing concern with many of your comments is your continued responses in reference to Jews which make false

representations and stereotypes of we Jews and our beliefs passing them off as legitimate debate on Israel.

In post 773 you also stated:

“to you,I am "Goyim" and whether you interpret everyone as necessarily belonging to some "Nation"

The above clearly shows you constructed bigoted stereotype as to how you believe Jews think and therefore I think

because I am a Jew, a classic example of anti Semitism..

In this stereotype its also interesting to note you didn't limit your stereotype to Zionist Jews but slurred all Jews.

Let me state you will have to do a lot better than going to wikepedia, removing the definition of “goy”

out of its proper context, to redefine the word, let alone then use it to assume the stereotype you did that

all we Jews think the way you think we do.

Get something clear, your assumption of what "goy" means is wrong just as your assumption as to the etiology og yhr word "Jew".

Get something else also crystal clear, your definition of what you think "goy" means is not the one Jews use or I use. You do not speak for them or me. Your definition is false and yours alone. It began and ended with that little voice in your head. Don't think for a second your little voice occurs anywhere but in your head. Don't confuse your delusions withmy beliefs or the beliefs of Jews. Stop telling me or Jews what we think and posing your thoughts as ours. They are not.

No I do not go around telling people they must belong in a nation- what a stupid thing to say.

"Goy" as it was used in Exodus 19: 6 and in certain other passages was used for the word “nation”, i.e.,

“These are the words that you shall speak to the children of Israel...."

"But you shall be to Me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation."

In the context above and other passages in the Torah when it was originally used, it was used as a device to refer to

the collective of Jews at that time, i.e., the children of Israel, i.e., the children of Israel were

referred to as "goy" and people of other nations were called "goyim".

It should also be made clear in that context "goy" did not refer to a geographic entity with boundaries but the

spiritual collective of Jews.

As wikepedia went on to explain and you deliberately and selectively failed to mention. the term goy changed.

It is no longer used that way.

The fact you deliberately ignored the rest of the wikepedia article explaining how the use and therefore meaning of

the word changed makes me challenge your intellectual honesty and say you deliberately ignored it.

"Goy" today simply means a gentile or one who lives outside the ghetto, while goyim is the plural of goy.

So once again you are wrong but in this case you demonstrate that you believe you can stereotype me and all Jews,

tell us how we think and continue to pose yourself as an expert on Jews let alone our words.

This notion you have that you have the right let alone the ability to tell any Jew what they think evidences

patronization of we Jews.

You do not tell me what I think, or what I should think. You do not tell Jews what they think or how they should think.

You want to keep spewing your false misrepresentations, go ahead I will expose them.

Act in a manner designed to patronize me and Jews and tell us who we are, how we think, I will call you what you

are a presumptious blow-hard anti semite for doing that.

Instead of telling me or Jews what a goy is try asking.

Then again you made it clear you won't.

In the same thread you started blowing hard and posing as an expert on what goy means you state and I quote:

“ I have zero concern to care what roots people have as I judge each person independently and NOT based on any of their preferred associations.”

Not only do you admit in the above words you have a closed mind to other people and choose to deliberately remain

ignorant of them but you disconnect even from your own fabricated world of making up new meanings which you claim

other people think.

Your disconnection is shown in the words, " I judge each person independently and NOT based on any of their preferred associations.”

You come on this board to repeat statement after statement to judge Jews. Each time you stereotype Jews you judge them.

As for me and Zionist Jews your posts clearly and openly call us war criminals and every other name in the book. It's

precisely why you come on this board to judge any Jew if you think they are Israeli, define themselves as a nation or

collective or you think is a Zionist. You call us war criminals and Zionists.

Not only do you refuse to take ownership of your own stereotypes and instead try pass them off as the thoughts of Jews

and myself, but you out and out disconnect from your very words displayed on this forum denying you

judge Jews negatively for choosing to be Israeli, Zionist or pray to God through a collective identity.

You ridicule us for all of these things. That's what your posts show, hatred, ridicule and contempt for us and our

beliefs and they are there for all to read and now you have the temerity to suggest you don't judge what you perceive tobe our association with the state of Israel, or spiritual collective soul of Jews?

Bull sheeyit. Read back your anti semitic words. They drip and ooze of this judgment by association.

[Scott Mayers]

Really ? Personal attacks ? Playing your game, the oh so hard done by Palestinians wouldn't last a day in Haiti, but the Haitians are not launching rockets or exploding suicide bombs. Not even after Canada plotted to depose their elected president.

Why do the Palestinian terrorists continue to pursue failed policies when faced with legal "war crimes"?

I can't speak for Haiti and how is this even comparative? Are you asserting the Palestinians should be simply happy because the 'relative' evil by the Israelis is somehow not AS evil as those potentially suffering elsewhere? You think people should be 'happy' to be merely alive, even while suffering hunger pains, loss of homes, right to representation in the political processes of the same lands they were stolen from? Even our North American Natives at least have a participatory function in our system far exceeding what the Palestinians have. They have ZERO control in Israeli government because Israel excludes them. So how do you interpret 'exclusion' as something to be 'appreciated'?

Why do the Israeli terrorists continue to assert a right to political authority OVER THE PALESTINIANS when they aren't even remotely accepted as humans deserving a right to be politically represented in such a supposedly caring country as Israel? If you, claiming yourself American, are sincere, should you not think it fair then if ANY yet alone a coalition of external countries should take over American's lands, give them to some foreign selected extreme cult and ethnicity, like DEMANDING Americans MUST take in Immigrants contrary to their interest, and then expect Americans NOT TO FIGHT BACK?

You're a hypocrite to have any right to call anyone a 'terrorist' if you in turn would think it wrong for a totalitarian takeover of America where the people does not deserve fighting back against such occupiers knowing AT ANY COST!!

I assure you, the Palestinians are already MORE PASSIVE given their torturous conditions than the relatively rare violence. But I've already argued that even INDIRECT forms of abuse represent violence in an even more disgusting way for the means those with power can and do such violations against others by merely standing in their way preventing them from moving, succeeding, having rights, etc. Am I violating you if I both bulldoze your home, declare it mine, build a giant wall around it, encouraging my own favored people to do the same, continue to do the same to the remaining places of all your own relatives, require you obey MY PEOPLE's PRIVILEGED laws that you have not role in, prevent you from the appropriate access to the necessary routes to compete, etc, etc, etc?

If I cornered you in some back alley, then just stood in your way, claim the passage out is mine then do nothing and wait, would you just sit there loving me because I might offer you my left over lunch scraps as I keep my ground? Do you have a 'human right' to try to walk past me? And if I simply am too big and quick enough to prevent you from slipping past, are you asserting you should passively ACCEPT your doomed scenario or would you possibly get remotely angry? Would you not eventually start thinking of acting out in ways you'd never do normally by trying to kill me? AND, to top it off, if the rest of the world passing that alley also don't do anything but in fact contribute to MY well-being, would you not think your own condition is futile unless you DO SOMETHING MORE DRASTIC?

AND, how would you think of other onlookers who watch, notice you throw a rock at me and instead of understanding you are taken hostage, they blame you for deserving your entrapment because you threw a rock?

Your reasoning lacks sincerity.

[Big Guy]

Israeli war crimes continue. The Zionist cancer slowly spreads absorbing even more Palestinian land.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/03/israel-demolishes-dozens-palestinian-homes-bank-160304134304570.html

Since the beginning of 2016, Israel has demolished, on average, 29 Palestinian-owned buildings a week, according to the UN.

Canadians, we have to convince our government to wash our hands of these Israeli criminals. We cannot afford to be associated in any way with these actions.

[Scott Mayers]

.Mayer In post 773 you stated:

“ I have zero concern to care what roots people have I as I judge each person independently and NOT based on any of

their preferred associations.”

I would expect for you to come on this board and be dismissive of other peoples' origins and history.

I would expect for you to openly brag about being a closed minded person who chooses to be ignorant of others.

Of course you have no concern.

Your dismissal I would contend is indicative of your lack of empathy, and your contempt and disrespect for other peoples' cultures.

I don’t doubt that.

I don't doubt your own EXTREME HATRED of ME here. Am I not also deserving of my Independent culture? You have no respect for anyone but your own in-group as admitted in supporting your Nationalism. Thus you are suspect to anything you say since you favor your own above all others with bias because it is impossible to assert a whole group of people as defaulted to being innocent as if you share one consciousness. You no doubt think you do. And if so, then you are DEFINING yourself in opposition to ALL others. While you may negotiate tradeoffs with others who also believe in your discriminatory attitude, you and not me are a HATER and most suspect of being the 'terrorist' logically.

But its obvious you can't even speak of me honestly; Its understanding, considering your hatred of me. So there's nothing left to say but that I DO NOT SUPPORT the State of Israel and by those such as yourself acting as you do here prove, you don't care to even try to use reasoning nor fairness in your approach. To me you ARE a criminal of those who believe that people are intrinsically equal and deserving of equal treatment individually.

My continuing concern with many of your comments is your continued responses in reference to Jews which make false

representations and stereotypes of we Jews and our beliefs passing them off as legitimate debate on Israel.

In post 773 you also stated:

“to you,I am "Goyim" and whether you interpret everyone as necessarily belonging to some "Nation"

The above clearly shows you constructed bigoted stereotype as to how you believe Jews think and therefore I think

because I am a Jew, a classic example of anti Semitism..

I VERY CLEARLY defined my rejection of the Zionism as it is a belief in Jewish Supremacy. How does this make ALL JEWS responsible? I don't OWN the claims of some White Supremacist for their own belief that ALL WHITE people are somehow a group either. It is you who both creates the stereotypes (positive and negative), just as those white supremacists would behave to implicate me as being of their clan. And you are acting just as a White Supremacist here would to anyone non-white who attempts to defeat their own irrational belief in some 'right' to impose a 'cultural' heritage OWNED BY ALL WHITES collectively. They too would accuse the skeptic of being the racist or hater as they'd actually accept and embrace the same kind of Nationalism you hold. The only difference is that you are on their opposing extreme competing agreeably to take the world stage as a Cult.

In this stereotype its also interesting to note you didn't limit your stereotype to Zionist Jews but slurred all Jews.

Now you are out-and-out lying! So unless you retract this, I have nothing more to say to you. I don't like you as you earned your clear disrespect of me and only attempt to contribute to BEING what you WANT others to stereotype ALL JEWS AS. So you're even a disgrace to those Jews who you are trying to foster a purposeful hatred against them as a whole. YOU ARE NOT THE SPOKESMEN FOR ANYONE BUT YOURSELF! Stop speaking for "Jews" as if you are some Race and distinct being that 'naturally' owns some part of Earth as a collective and favorite of Nature itself.

[Scott Mayers]

Israeli war crimes continue. The Zionist cancer slowly spreads absorbing even more Palestinian land.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/03/israel-demolishes-dozens-palestinian-homes-bank-160304134304570.html

Since the beginning of 2016, Israel has demolished, on average, 29 Palestinian-owned buildings a week, according to the UN.

Canadians, we have to convince our government to wash our hands of these Israeli criminals. We cannot afford to be associated in any way with these actions.

I agree but believe it is an uphill and unlikely battle for us to compete against. The best we can do is to keep trying to entice people to think more. I believe that most people are internally universal in their acceptance of each of us to be equal. But as long as there exists groups who have the power collectively to prefer segregation and hierarchical moral assignments to Nationalities as a whole, they always tend to get their way effectively.

I hate politics yet find this unavoidable to require being involved if only to prevent being robbed of my (all our) freedom for the sake of these cults.

Edit:

I believe they'll just argue that their was no one home at the time. And if they complain, they'll just state that they should have read the LAWS and announcements in the Israeli government office.

Edited March 5, 2016 by Scott Mayers

[bush_cheney2004]

I can't speak for Haiti and how is this even comparative? Are you asserting the Palestinians should be simply happy because the 'relative' evil by the Israelis is somehow not AS evil as those potentially suffering elsewhere?

I was demonstrating the weakness of your stated position and comparison vis-a-vis Palestinians. Just for extra measure, I tossed in the direct Canadian military intervention in Haiti's right to self-determination (kidnapping of President Aristide in 2004), a "war crime". And yet, Haitians have not taken to Hamas methods for bombings, murders, and kidnappings.

Why do the Israeli terrorists continue to assert a right to political authority OVER THE PALESTINIANS when they aren't even remotely accepted as humans deserving a right to be politically represented in such a supposedly caring country as Israel? If you, claiming yourself American, are sincere, should you not think it fair then if ANY yet alone a coalition of external countries should take over American's lands, give them to some foreign selected extreme cult and ethnicity, like DEMANDING Americans MUST take in Immigrants contrary to their interest, and then expect Americans NOT TO FIGHT BACK?

Because they can....and will. Israel will abandon all occupied territory just as soon as Canada and the United States leave native lands in North America. Sound fair to you ?

You're a hypocrite to have any right to call anyone a 'terrorist' if you in turn would think it wrong for a totalitarian takeover of America where the people does not deserve fighting back against such occupiers knowing AT ANY COST!!

Your own nation and many others have labeled Hamas and other Palestinian groups as "terrorists"...for decades. Plead your hypotheticals with them.

If I cornered you in some back alley, then just stood in your way, claim the passage out is mine then do nothing and wait, would you just sit there loving me because I might offer you my left over lunch scraps as I keep my ground?

No, I would ask if you felt that way because I murdered your family last year, or 40 years ago and promised to keep doing it.

AND, how would you think of other onlookers who watch, notice you throw a rock at me and instead of understanding you are taken hostage, they blame you for deserving your entrapment because you threw a rock?

Your reasoning lacks sincerity.

Sincerity is irrelevant...I am all about reality. Launch a rocket...get bombed ten times over. Any questions ?

[Big Guy]

We laugh at Trump promising to build a wall between USA and Mexico while the Israelis continue to build a wall making prisons out of Palestinian villages.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/02/palestinian-village-prison-160222055954973.html

Yet we stand by and allow the Zionists a free hand.

Shame!

The pro-Zionists continue to excuse these war crimes but cannot dispute the facts:

http://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Maps/Story572.html

and

http://www.activistpost.com/2015/09/obamas-human-rights-speech-ignores-illegal-israeli-occupation-of-palestine.html

This is a text book example of cultural genocide.

Edited March 5, 2016 by Big Guy

[GostHacked]

That's it Ghost, sanctimonious? You can't even write me directly? Lol.

Then you claim you didn't see his latest quote? Lol. I never suggested you did but your silence as to his latest quote says it all.

Me sanctimonious because I challenge your attempting to defend this poster's rants on Jews on this forum? Lol. Sanctimonious because I defend my people's reputation and their right to exist as people?

Interesting how that works. Mayer comes on this board presuming to tell me what I can not be as a Jew, spews countless false statements about Jews, Zionism, Nazism, the holocaust, Judaism, posing as an expert on all of them with not one source to back up his comments, and you call me sanctimonious for challenging that and your defense of it. Yep, imagine a Jew fighting back and saying never again-damn sanctimonious.

Here let's state the sanctimonious words again because you keep saying you miss quotes, NEVER AGAIN.

I addressed you directly when I quoted you. Sanctimonious indeed. And the next few pages are more of the same back and forth.

Pathetic.

[Rue]

I addressed you directly when I quoted you. Sanctimonious indeed. And the next few pages are more of the same back and forth.

Pathetic.

You have yet to back up what Mayer has said, Stop trying to bait me and back it up.

Provide the documentation he won't to back up his points, otherwise no you have not addressed me over the issues, you just bait.

[Rue]

Mayer in post 773 you stated:

“I don't believe in ANY Nationalism as I've repeatedly said to you. I don't own 'red-headedness', 'maleness', my Old World ancestral groups”

First I would argue the very volume of and content of your posts shows you only select the nationalism of Jews and you do so to insult Jews by calling them war criminals, Nazis and try assign false negative stereotypes to us. I don’t think you fool anyone as to your agenda which is to focus only on we Jews.

That said I would argue that your statement shows you don’t understand the definition of nationalism.

Since your only scant reference in your threads was to wikepedia I now quote its definition of nartionalism to show why your comments about red hair, etc., have nothing to do with nationality:

“Nationalism is a shared group feeling in the significance of a geographical and sometimes demographic region seeking independence for its culture and/or ethnicity that holds that group together. This can be expressed as a belief or political ideology that involves an individual identifying with or becoming attached to one's nation. “

So contrary to what you state, constructing a national identity is not about “red hair”( a recessive gene caused by mutation) or maleness (gender) or for that matter simply ancestry as you pose it as.

You show in your very words you don’t understand what nationalism is and try pass off your own subjective stereotype of what you think nationalism is.

Your stereotype tries to change nationalism to contain reference to genes, species, superior race as you repeat so you can then claim Jewish nationalism is Nazism. Jewish nationalism is not and has never been based on genetics, race, notions of superiority-those are fabrications you make up.

Anyone can go and easily find out what Zionism stands for. The fact you don’t provide an ounce of evidence to back up your definition of what nationalism is or Zionism I would contend is because you can’t find any documentation because you fabricated it.

I also state the comment by Big Guy that you are well researched is hilarious since the only reference you have ever provided was from wikepedia and even that you deliberately selected from to avoid those portions of information that completely contradicted your contentions.

[Rue]

Mayer you repeated yet another false statement as to what Jewish nationalism or Zionism means in post 781 when you stated:

“The State of Israel is specifically an extreme type of group that defines themselves as requiring necessarily genetic and cultural qualities to be combined. “
I would suggest you deliberately replaced the word “Zionism” for “State of Israel” in the above comment so you could pretext your attack on Zionism and Zionist Jews.

The above has nothing to do with Israeli state government actions and policies and shows your agenda is not to discuss that, but continue to come on the board to misappropriate the thread to in fact ridicule the right of Jews to be a nationality.

In the above ridicule, you smeer all Zionist Jews and all its people even Israeli Muslims/ Christians/Bahaiis/Druze/Beduins and ironically the Israeli ultra Orthodox Jews who are not Zionists. Ah but no doubt you can respond to this and say, oh you only meant the Zionist Israelis not the other ones. Right.

I will now argue you use the above stereotype which is actually a description of Nazism to then enable you to call Zionism the equivalent to Nazism so you can then go on to smeer all Israelis and Zionists as Nazis.

The above definition of Zionism is false and necessarily your comparison to Nazism is false. You can’t provide a shred of evidence to prove your definition of Zionism because it doesn’t exist, you invented it.

The definition of Zionism can be easily found. It was originated from Nathan Birnbaum back in 1890. Anyone can go find out what it means and see it does not refer to genetics or race or even the definition of Jew from the Torah or Talmud.

All Ziomism refers to is the belief in the right of Jews to have established a Jewish state in the Land of Israel to live in. NOTHING ELSE. You’ve invented the rest to enable your campaign of slurs against Jews to try sound as if you based it on something other than your own bigotry and hatred of Jews.

Over the years many people have taken the term Zionism and misappropriated it as you now Mayer continue to do. Like the tactics you engaged in with your previous false representations of the words “Jew” and “goy” you now do the same now with the word Zionism. If nothing else you are a one trick pony in the tactics you use.

I also would point out Mayer you expanding your false references if Zionism to misrepresent it to define Jews as a “unique species” and superior race not just a distinct genetic people all were fabricated by you to prop your Nazi name calling..

Produce the documents to back up your false statements about defining Jews as a gene type, race, superior race, favoured people in God’s eyes. You can’t because it doesn’t exist.

You’ve been given ample opportunity to back up what you say, you can’t. What you can do is repeat the same subjective stereotypes and Nazi name calling. That’s all you have to offer.

No matter how any times you call us Jews Nazis Mayer the fact remains we Jews are no more Nazis then Italians, Irish, Chinese, Lithuanian, Estonian, Russian, Czech, Slovakians, Finnish and over 145 other nations are who like Israel define a nationality that is not just based on citizens in their countries, but an identified nationality of people who might live in other countries and just as the Irish have their tie to Ireland or the Italians to Italy or Ukrainians to Ukraine, We Jews have our tie to Israel, no more, no less.

No amount of repeating your anti semitic drivel as you did yet again in your latest post to me that we are Nazis changes that.

The fact is you can't document we are Nazis. You can't find one document to show how Zionists define Jews as a white supreme race. The fact you do it now over and over shows you do this deliberately. You know what you say is false and can't be proven but you will repeat it.

Keep it up Mayer. Calling Jews Nazis over and over is what you do.

[Rue]

Mayer you stated:

“Even today the building of the walls, the forceful settlements, etc, are just examples that they are NOW acting in direct violation of all those they accused of against them in previous eras.”

Well it was bound to happen you actually made a comment in regards to Israeli state policies, the subject of the thread. I also note though you went on to use the word “they” not to refer to the Israeli government but in fact all Jews and so you could then go on to infer and equate the past suffering of Jews at the hands of Nazis or other anti-semites as being no different then whatyou perceive the Israeli government policies doing do to Palestinians.

This device and tactic shows:
1-you don’t differentiate an Israeli government action from Israeli citizens;
2-you don’t discuss how those government actions also impact on Israeli citizens as well as Palestinians;
3-you don’t discuss the cause and effect associated with those actions;
4-you create a stereotype that does not differentiate the Israeli government and/or its actions from not just Israelis but Jewish victims of Nazism;
5-you equate a Jew simply for living in Israel as being a Nazi.

In so doing you express classic hateful, insulting and negative stereotyping of Jews pretexted as referring to criticizing Israeli state policies when your very words show you smeer all Jews and in fact do not discuss the policies.

You don’t discuss Palestinian terrorism and its role in why these policies have come about. Your sole agenda is to call Jews Nazis using the existing conflict as your pretext.

You take the perceived actions of the current Israeli government to negate the suffering of Jews and Israelis for any or all reasons.

Your posts show you deliberately interchange the words Jew, Zionist, Israeli, state of Israel as being one and the same so you do not have to distinguish the Israeli government from all Jews of the world when calling them all immoral, evil, war criminals, demons, whatever.

That Mayer is what I challenge.

[Rue]

Mayer your bigotry against all Jews and bias in favour of Palestinians is shown in this comment in post 785 when you equated Jews to white European invaders of North America.

You also stated and I quote:

“Either way, there is NO justice to hypocritically assert a right to lands as if the Palestinians were somehow themselves "more foreign"!!”

You once again revive the false anti-semitic attack on Jews and Israelis that they are European invaders and that Palestinians are more indigenous to the Middle East than Jews.

Let’s deal with your false stereotype once and for all. Palestinians can be Jews, Muslims, Christians, Druze, Beduins, Bahaiis, even possibly Assyrians, Berbers and Kurds or any other people who might have come from people of the Arabian peninsula area.

Yes Jews may have come to Israel from Europe and Arab countries or Ethiopia, Africa India, China, North and South America, Australia and New Zealand which they do.

So?

The vast majority of people today who call themselves Palestinian are in fact descendants of Arab Muslims from anywhere and everywhere other than Palestine.

They are descended from Arab Muslims who came to Palestine in the 1900’s based on British immigration policies designed to flood the area with Muslims to prevent a Jewish state.

Today’s Palestinians are most likely the descendants of Muslim Palestinians who confiscated land on the West Bank from Palestinians. Yet in your selective thesis only Jews came to Palestine and stole land.

The fact is Mayer you know nothing about the history of the West Bank, Israel, Jordan and who actually had land titles in the areas now called Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Israel and the West Bank.You wouldn’t know what an Israeli, Palestinian, Jew or Muslim is if one bit you on the buttox.

Who are you kidding with all the pseuto lectures. You have not a clue about how certain people’s land was squatted on and then led from squatting to legal right to possess in the Middle East.

You have no idea what the former Ottoman Empire land title system was, and how creating nations like Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Jordan as well as Israel impacted on that.
In your world Jews are the only foreigners because it suits your agenda of calling Jews invading war criminal Nazis.

You beat a dead false horse over and over but its not moving Mayer.

Now as for the repeated references to Palestinians being slaves:

1-Palestinians who remained in Israel today live in Israel as citizens enjoying all the legal and religious and land title rights no Jew has in a Muslim sharia law nation or had in Christian nations prior to Israel’s creation;

2-today’s self identified Palestinians up until 1967 ridiculed people calling themselves Palestinians-they only began using that word to describe themselves after the Black Sabbath uprising in Jordan in 1967 when l Arafat failed to kill King Hussein and take over Jordan-it was only at that time he reinvented the word as a nationality;

3-in your thesis Palestinians should have a national identity as should all Muslims in their sharia law states and all other peoples of the world, but not Jews-for someone who claims you don’t believe in nationalism you continue to single out only Jewish nationalism and support openly Palestinian nationalism;

4-your “present slave” comment deliberately and selectively ignores that the Jews of Muslim countries today are enslaved and Israel was created as a refuge so Jews could escape and liberate themselves from slavery and never again be imprisoned, gassed, oppressed in Europe for being Jews and no longer to live as slaves, i.e., dhimmi in Muslim sharia law nations.

Your thesis that Jews enslave Palestinians of course pretends the Arab League of nations did not create the camps and imprison the Palestinians and refuse to give them citizenship telling the world they would use them as pawns until Israel was removed as a nation. You skip that and so you are far from original, just another in a never ending list of Jewish historical experts claiming to lecture when you haven’t a clue what an Arab is let a Jew.

[Rue]

Mayer In post 783 you stated:

“If you don't like the Nazis, you have to NOT behave as them. I've established the appropriate comparisons to demonstrate Israel as not only being of the same belief, but is precisely WHAT the Nazis modeled their own perceived virtue..”
Interestingly you don’t lecture any Muslim nation, any Muslim, any Palestinian, anyone else as to the above, just Jews. You choose to take the victims of Nazis, and single them out and only them to call Nazis. In so doing you show your hatred of Jews, your selective discrimination and your continuing attempt to bait Jews by calling them the same name as the people dedicated to wiping them out shows a deliberate attempt to trivialize and ridicule their suffering.

Your Nazi name calling is no different that calling arape victim a rapist.

You have not established any comparisons between Nazis and Jews. You in fact have provided not one document, not one essay, not one shred of evidence to establish they are the same, not one because you can’t.

What you have done however, is to continue to make false statements to then serve as your basis to keep coming back on this board to call Jews Nazis.

The above statement again shows the name calling with no basis of documentation oto back it up. That tactic of continually repeating a false statement is a well known one isn’t it. The device is that if you repeat a lie long enough, it must be true, right Mayer?

You are a one trick pony Mayer. Do you think if you come on this board and call Jews Nazis over and over no one will discuss the Muslim world and its implosion and violence? Really? Poof its gone if you just keep calling Jews Nazis? You think?

Edited March 6, 2016 by Rue

[Rue]

You stated in post 805:

“But you are wrong that religion to the State of Israel has nothing or trivial relationship to its founding.”

I never stated or argued or inferred the above.

The above sentence is fragmented, ie., . “religion to the State of Israel has nothing or (sic) trial relationship to its founding (sic).”

What I have said repeatedly is that Zionism as it was originally defined and still is defined does not define Jews the way Judaism the religion does and was not predicated on the definition from Judaism-it was in fact predicated on re-defining Jewish identity from its religious definition to one of political national identity.

[Rue]

Mayer you stated in post 785:

“I think you need to very precisely define, "Anti-Semitism". If this is interpreted by you to mean some 'derogatory selective hatred against Jewish peoples',

I think you need to address your own or the Zionist beliefs of similar belief in reverse. “

Why?

If you are having problems understanding you need to go find out what it means but clearly from the words above you appear to understand that anti-Semitism is your engaging in selective hatred of Jews for being a collective of people and choosing to be a collective of people.

Your other statement, “ I think you need to address your own or the Zionist beliefs of similar belief in reverse, “ are another example of garbled syntax leave my guessing at what you meant.

I think you are suggesting I am an anti-semite for being a Zionist. That is illogical because Zionism does not define any Jew as a good Jew or a bad Jew or define Jews in a hateful way. You mix me up for you again.

Please show where I used the definition of Zionism to hate Jews and say insulting things about them.

[Rue]

Mayer in post 785 you also stated about me that:

“You 'make your bed' by defining yourself a type of distinct species apart from other humans.”

No I make my bed like most people by pulling up and tucking in the sheets and no neither I or any Jew defines ourselves as a unique species whether we are Zionist or anti Zionist.

That again is a voice you hear in your head which you project on all Jews as our voices. It’s what you do-fabricate false stereotypes then pose them as the belief of Jews. This again shows you are a narcissist, someone who can’t differentiate his self and his delusions from others-its all one reflection of you.

Go on Mayer, provide the Jewish definition describing us as a unique species. You just spew Mayer, you spew and spew and spew with zero documentation.

[Rue]

I’ve actually explained as have others on this board repeatedly what the definition of a Jew is.

However on each and every anti Israel thread, its misstated.

Mayer is just another in a long list of Jewish experts coming on this board to

try enunciate hatred for Jews passing it off as his Jewish expertise.

A Jew is most often thought of as a follower of the Jewish religion. However one can be a Jew and not practice Judaism. In fact there are humanist Jews (atheists, agnostics), Reconstructonist, Reform (Liberal), Conservative, Orthodox and Ultra-Orthodox Jews depending on what sect of the religion they identify.

One can also be a Jew and practice Taoism, Buddhism, and even Unitarianism without contradiction. Much of the Kabbala is very close to Hinduist mysticism as well. Our ethical code, the Talmud was taught by Jesus to Christians and so our religions have the same intrinsic code of ethics.Our religion probably can be traced back to Zoroastreanism and before that the same ancestors who created Hinduism.

The people of the Iraqi area we came from probably migrated there from Africa when the continents had not yet divided. The fact is all peoples are related to each other in origin if you go far enough back. No religion is unique it always is a thought pattern that evolved from thought patterns that it came from and evolved from. Science has taught us that we are all children of inter-mixed gene pools. There is no such thing as race as we subjectively constructed it in the past to describe secondary characteristics as to skin colour, hair texture and nose shape.

The definition of Jew has never been fixed or absolute. It constantly mutates and changes, it’s a definition in motion as are all Jewish concepts. Judaism does not believe in absolute definitions-every concept is subject to change and ever evolving new meaning.

The definition of Jew in Judaism contains ,any components including; religious, political, philosophical, metaphysical, cultural, ethnic, linguistic. The definition of a Jew can come from art, music, cuisine, literary works (sub-components of culture.)
Mitzrahi-Tsfardic-Arab Jews have much more in common with Arabs then they would say Ashkenazi Jews of Europe who spoke Yiddish not Arabic as the Mitzrahis did and still do. Felashie Jews also have their own language. There ae other Jewish peoples in other African nations, in China and India (descendants of people who followed Judaism left behind by Marco Polo). The Indians of Mumbai are in their own way. There is no one kind of Jew. We have many sub-types.

We have no rule about genetics otherwise we would not allow conversion.

The definition of Jew does not define a Jew as better than or superior to a non Jew. That is a false anti-semitic canard started by twisting the story of the alleged promise between Jews and God. That promise, more accurately called a covenant is a story, an allegory used at a time to keep Jews from feuding with each other and breaking up.

It’s a posed allegory that says, if Jews choose to remain a collective and believe in God through the collective spirit, then God in turn, will be able to acknowledge Jews as a collective spirit. That covenant is simply a two way arrangement that says, you believe in me collectively, I will believe in you collectively.

Chosen or Promised people restated as we Jews believing we are favoured by God and therefore superior is a falsehood started by anti semites.
God never promised us a nation. In fact the story says God agreed to remember us as a nation (collective, not geographic area or country) if we chose to pray to God through a collective spirit.

References to the land of milk and honey did not say or suggest that land would only belong to Jews. It is a basic and fundamental precept that the planet is created by God for humans to share.

Nothing in Judaism says other religions and people are not capable of making similar covenants with God Nothing in Judaism excludes non Jews from living in an Israeli nation. Nothing in Zionism says that other and its precisely why Israel has laws that state Christians, Bahaiis, Muslims can all be and remain citizens of Israel and use their own religious courts.

In fact Judaism recognizes other religions as equals. It’s why Jews are not allowed to convert others unlike Christians and Muslims who believe people outside their faith must convert to their faith to be whole to get into heaven, Judaism does not say this. We do not define non Jews as going to hell like Christians, or infidel like Muslims. We do not as is the case in Muslim states define non Jews as dhimmi and khafir-inferior infidel as the Muslim states do to justify not allowing non Muslims the right to own land or enjoy the legal rights Muslims do.

As for the false stereotype used to falsely define Zionism and Judaism doing what Mayer does and blurring the two definitions and making absurd statements about the Jewish nation and what it means in its original contest the Jewish nation (goy) was used to refer to the “children of Israel”. It refers to Jews not in the meaning of territory or fixed geographic site but in that classic sense as a group of people with a shared history and sense of group identity not as a unique species. Human beings in Judaism are not unique because we are all made in the image of God-only God constitutes uniqueness.

Zionists chose Israel to return to not because of the above definition but simply because that’s where we came from and we wanted to return where we came from because its where we originated and Jews have and had continuously lived even after Roman expulsion since we first formed a collective.

Zionists chose Israel because they wanted to return whence they came not go somewere where we never belonged. This is why we did not as Churchill say go Uganda.

Zionism respects the right of Arab peoples who are not Jews. The extremist Zionists are no more a reflection of Zionism than Mayer is of atheists which he claims to be or German which his name seems to infer.

The concept of Jews being a collective is defined in the religion yes. In Zionism that collective is defined as a political collective, a national identity through a state, not a religious collective. The two can coincide but it’s not how Zionists define the collective except for the religious Zionists who are not the majority of Zionists.

I can only once again show you how Mayer lies when he says what he does about the Jewish definition and provide yet again an easy to understand explanation even he could grasp:

http://www.jewfaq.org/whoisjew.htm

Who is a Jew?

A Jew is any person whose mother was a Jew or any person who has gone through the formal process ofconversion to Judaism.

It is important to note that being a Jew has nothing to do with what you believe or what you do. A person born to non-Jewish parents who has not undergone the formal process of conversion but who believes everything that Orthodox Jews believe and observes every law and custom of Judaism is still a non-Jew, even in the eyes of the most liberal movements of Judaism, and a person born to a Jewish mother who is an atheist and never practices the Jewish religion is still a Jew, even in the eyes of the ultra-Orthodox. In this sense, Judaism is more like a nationality than like other religions, and being Jewish is like a citizenship. See What Is Judaism?

This has been established since the earliest days of Judaism. In the Torah, you will see many references to "the strangers who dwell among you" or "righteous proselytes" or "righteous strangers." These are various classifications of non-Jews who lived among Jews, adopting some or all of the beliefs and practices of Judaism without going through the formal process of conversion and becoming Jews. Once a person has converted to Judaism, he is not referred to by any special term; he is as much a Jew as anyone born Jewish.

Although all Jewish movements agree on these general principles, there are occasional disputes as to whether a particular individual is a Jew. Most of these disputes fall into one of two categories.

First, traditional Judaism maintains that a person is a Jew if his mother is a Jew, regardless of who his father is. The liberal movements, on the other hand, allow Jewish status to pass through the mother or the father if the child identifies as Jewish. For example, according to the Reform movement, former Phillies catcher Mike Lieberthal, who had a Jewish father but chooses not to be identified as Jewish, would not be Jewish according to the Reform movement, but former Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords, who had a Jewish father and adopted a Jewish identity as an adult, would be considered Jewish. See their positionhere). On the other hand, the child of a a Christian father and a Jewish mother who does not publicly identify himself as Jewish would be considered Jewish according to the Orthodox movement, but not according to the Reform movement. The matter becomes even more complicated, because the status of that interfaith child's children also comes into question.

Second, the more traditional movements do not always acknowledge the validity of conversions by the more liberal movements. A more liberal movement might not follow the procedures required by the more traditional movement, thereby invalidating the conversion. For example, Orthodoxy requires acceptance of the yoke of Torah (observance of Jewish law as Orthodoxy understands it), while other movements would not teach the same laws that Orthodoxy does and might not require observance. The Conservative movement requires circumcision and immersion in a mikvah, which is not always required in Reform conversions.

About Matrilineal Descent

Many people have asked me why traditional Judaism uses matrilineal descent to determine Jewish status, when in all other things (tribal affiliation, priestly status, royalty, etc.) we use patrilineal descent.

The Torah does not specifically state anywhere that matrilineal descent should be used; however, there are several passages in the Torah where it is understood that the child of a Jewish woman and a non-Jewish man is a Jew, and several other passages where it is understood that the child of a non-Jewish woman and a Jewish man is not a Jew.

In Deuteronomy 7:1-5, in expressing the prohibition against intermarriage, G-d says "he [i.e., the non-Jewish male spouse] will cause your child to turn away from Me and they will worship the gods of others." No such concern is expressed about the child of a non-Jewish female spouse. From this, we infer that the child of a non-Jewish male spouse is Jewish (and can therefore be turned away from Judaism), but the child of a non-Jewish female spouse is not Jewish (and therefore turning away is not an issue).

Leviticus 24:10 speaks of the son of an Israelite woman and an Egyptian man as being "among the community of Israel" (i.e., a Jew).

On the other hand, in Ezra 10:2-3, the Jews returning to Israel vowed to put aside their non-Jewish wives and the children born to those wives. They could not have put aside those children if those children were Jews.

Several people have written to me asking about King David: was he a Jew, given that one of his female ancestors, Ruth, was not a Jew? This conclusion is based on two faulty premises: first of all, Ruth was a Jew, and even if she wasn't, that would not affect David's status as a Jew. Ruth converted to

Judaism before marrying Boaz and bearing Obed. See Ruth 1:16, where Ruth states her intention to convert. After Ruth converted, she was a Jew, and all of her children born after the conversion were Jewish as well. But even if Ruth were not Jewish at the time Obed was born, that would not affect King David's status as a Jew, because Ruth is an ancestor of David's father, not of David's mother, and David's Jewish status is determined by his mother.

The opinion of mainstream Orthodoxy seems to be that it is better for a Jew to be Reform or Conservative than not to be Jewish at all. While we would certainly prefer that all of our people acknowledged the obligation to observe the unchanging law (just as Conservative Jews would prefer that all of our people acknowledged the right to change the law, and Reform Jews would prefer that all of our people acknowledged the right to pick and choose what to observe), we recognize that, as Rabbi Kook said, "That which unites us is far greater than that which divides us."

[Argus]

I can't bother wasting my breath on you. You're a spoiled privileged brat as is apparent from your utter ignorance of your own fortunes. I don't believe you'd last a day in the 'privileged' Palestinian camps.

To repeat: You know nothing about me or my history. In fact, it's you who comes off as a pampered liberal raised in comfort who has wasted his time taking something like philosophy in school. Have you ever worked a day of physical labour in your life?

And my statements of fact have not been countered by you, nor can they be, thus your rising frustration. It might not be wonderful to be an Israeli Arab, but it's a hell of a lot better than living in Syria or Iraq or Yemen or Iran or Jordan. You don't see those walls Israel erects keeping Arabs from LEAVING, do you? Nope.

Edited March 6, 2016 by Argus

[Argus]

Israeli war crimes continue. The Zionist cancer slowly spreads absorbing even more Palestinian land.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/03/israel-demolishes-dozens-palestinian-homes-bank-160304134304570.html

Since the beginning of 2016, Israel has demolished, on average, 29 Palestinian-owned buildings a week, according to the UN.

Canadians, we have to convince our government to wash our hands of these Israeli criminals. We cannot afford to be associated in any way with these actions.

The above, in its frenzied condemnation approaching the level of hate literature, is about the destruction of ten homes.

How bizarre that thousands and thousands are being slaughtered in Yemen, in Iraq, in Syria, in Egypt, in Sudan, in the Congo, tortured, enslaved, raped and destroyed, and all the poster cares about is ten homes being bulldozed in the West Bank.

[kactus]

The above, in its frenzied condemnation approaching the level of hate literature, is about the destruction of ten homes.

How bizarre that thousands and thousands are being slaughtered in Yemen, in Iraq, in Syria, in Egypt, in Sudan, in the Congo, tortured, enslaved, raped and destroyed, and all the poster cares about is ten homes being bulldozed in the West Bank.

...And the above, in its frenzied condemnation approaching lack of knowledge and history of that country shows yet again that not much can be expected from Iranian haters on this forum...

Abstract from The Guardian

"Iran's Jews have given the country a loyalty pledge in the face of cash offers aimed at encouraging them to move to Israel, the arch-enemy of its Islamic rulers.

"The incentives — ranging from £5,000 a person to £30,000 for families — were offered from a special fund established by wealthy expatriate Jews in an effort to prompt a mass migration to Israel from among Iran's 25,000-strong Jewish community. The offers were made with Israel's official blessing and were additional to the usual state packages it provides to Jews emigrating from the diaspora."

"The identity of Iranian Jews is not tradeable for any amount of money," the society said in a statement. "Iranian Jews are among the most ancient Iranians. Iran's Jews love their Iranian identity and their culture, so threats and this immature political enticement will not achieve their aim of wiping out the identity of Iranian Jews."

The Israeli newspaper Ma'ariv reported that the incentives had been doubled after earlier offers of £2,500 a head failed to attract any Iranian Jews to leave for Israel."

Full article:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/jul/12/israel.iran

Oh yes those "evil Eyeranian jews" are running scared from their country and have no loyalty to their country and their situation is much worse compared to Palestinians who are literally 'robbed' from their land. I get that...

[Hoser360]

As for your final comment on the US engaging in Israel's terrorism, I have come to expect that kind of simplistic, partisan comment from you.

In your world the US and Israel are simply painted "bad" or "terrorist". Its black and white to you. It can't possibly be that Israel and the US have done positive things for the world-not in your world, you are quick to throw them out like religions.

Your Sir I would argue have been brought up in a culture that has conditioned you to think you dispose of things quickly when you think they have no use. Its a value system that rejects anything and everything you feel has no purpose to your needs.

Yah I get it. You were brought up to take that kind of disposable intolerance as a norm, as an automatic reflex behavioural reaction.

I get it.

In my world my people were called garbage and thrown out by others and disposed. Its why I am a Zionist. Never again will I or people like me be treated as disposable garbage in the way you do when discussing Israel, the US, religions. This is exactly what Zionism is-a movement that said no you don't throw us out, NEVER AGAIN.

I would not expect you to have empathy for what you think is garbage.

“As for your final comment on the US engaging in Israel's terrorism, I have come to expect that kind of simplistic, partisan comment from you.”

Put this in your pipe and smoke it. (see below video of Netanyahu)

“ www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJFLXBqaVSc ”

“In your world the US and Israel are simply painted "bad" or "terrorist". Its black and white to you. It can't possibly be that Israel and the US have done positive things for the world-not in your world, you are quick to throw them out like religions.”

Doing something nice does not excuse the bad things.

“Your Sir I would argue have been brought up in a culture that has conditioned you to think you dispose of things quickly when you think they have no use. Its a value system that rejects anything and everything you feel has no purpose to your needs."

In actual fact, I am a big recycler and somewhat of a hoarder. I keep things around that I doubt I will ever use but in the off chance someone else will need it and am always delighted to see an object repurposed. My world is neither black nor white and the search for the truth of things is unending and in constant revision, which is one of the reasons I have contributed to this forum. I do try to be civil and not personal and am trying to learn from all sides of the discussion.

“Yah I get it. You were brought up to take that kind of disposable intolerance as a norm, as an automatic reflex behavioural reaction.

I get it.”

Actual I was raised in white raciest environment that did not have empathy or much tolerance for none whites, homosexuals etc. Fortunately I did not grow up to embrace those ideologies and do not judge people by the colour of their skin, which god they prey too, or what sexual preference one has. Live and let live.

“In my world my people were called garbage and thrown out by others and disposed. Its why I am a Zionist. Never again will I or people like me be treated as disposable garbage in the way you do when discussing Israel, the US, religions. This is exactly what Zionism is-a movement that said no you don't throw us out, NEVER AGAIN.

I would not expect you to have empathy for what you think is garbage.”

Just to be clear, I have no issue with Jewish people and in no way think they are “garbage” as you say. The Jewish faith seems to have been hijacked by the Zionist to justify taking over the land of Palestine. What I do not respect is the fact that the Israeli government condones the very same behavior that you say has been inflicted on “your people”, which “your people” now inflict on the people of Palestine.

[Big Guy]

...And the above, in its frenzied condemnation approaching lack of knowledge and history of that country shows yet again that not much can be expected from Iranian haters on this forum...

I do not believe there are any Iranian haters here - just misinformed posters looking for yet another tool to get attention and go after certain other posters. I am accustomed to that kind of rhetoric from those sources and have yet to see any factual discourse.

I post facts, new reports, maps, diagrams, statistics and the only response I get from these folks is criticism of me. After a while I gave up reading and responding to them. There is a communication when one person phones, the other picks up and a conversation begins between two people. I never answer directly. I check to see who is calling then decide if it worthwhile for me to pick up.

I do the same here. I check who the poster is then decide if it worthwhile reading the presentation. It saves a lot of time.

[Argus]

...And the above, in its frenzied condemnation approaching lack of knowledge and history of that country shows yet again that not much can be expected from Iranian haters on this forum...

So that Iran executes more people than any country on earth save China is not relevant to you? Iran executed more people last year than died in the violence between Israelis and Palestinians .

And those are just the ones they admit to. When they torture someone to death in prison they simply make excuses for the death.

That's why it's hard for the Jew haters to pretend their frenzied concern for human rights violations in Palestine is due to anything other than their hate.

Edited March 6, 2016 by Argus