French Magazine Attacked by Terrorists

[Big Guy]

Anti-terrorism officers hunting the terrorists issued photographs of the two. Witnesses said the gunmen shouted "We are from Al Qaeda in Yemen" and "Allahu akabar!"

All right USA, France and Canada - we have a new target! Time to create an "alliance of the outraged" and attack Yemen. It should be a short battle and the Yemen people will greet us with open arms. Perhaps some of the more irate members on this board will volunteer so we can "kill those scumbags and murderers" and let those little girls go to school. That will work. Won't it?

[Big Guy]

Those murdering terrorists must be sharing "high fives" after seeing the Harper speech to-day. He has just declared that "Jihadists have declared war on the West" opening the door to a military response. Well done terrorists.

On 9/11, it took 19 suicidal fanatics to get the USA to march into a trap that cost $trillions, cost tens of thousands of Western lives, cost hundreds of thousands of Arab and Middle East lives and created a schism between West and Islamic countries.

Now we have 3 murderous (smart) nut cases, going on a killing binge and getting the bigots, racists and skinheads all riled up and ready to support more military action in the Middle East. Onward Christian Soldiers !!!

Remember, either stand behind your troops or stand in front of them!

Good grief!

[bush_cheney2004]

What a fun game....it only took six people to start World War I. Can anybody top that ?

[On Guard for Thee]

Those murdering terrorists must be sharing "high fives" after seeing the Harper speech to-day. He has just declared that "Jihadists have declared war on the West" opening the door to a military response. Well done terrorists.

On 9/11, it took 19 suicidal fanatics to get the USA to march into a trap that cost $trillions, cost tens of thousands of Western lives, cost hundreds of thousands of Arab and Middle East lives and created a schism between West and Islamic countries.

Now we have 3 murderous (smart) nut cases, going on a killing binge and getting the bigots, racists and skinheads all riled up and ready to support more military action in the Middle East. Onward Christian Soldiers !!!

Remember, either stand behind your troops or stand in front of them!

Good grief!

My advice, take a Valium and don't take Harper seriously. Let the French hunt down the murderers, trial, jail, etc. Just like crazy buggers who rod banks etc. Free speech will carry on unscathed.

[eyeball]

This has everything to do with free speech / freedom of expression. It was "knee jerkers" who built and defended liberal western nations, including rational people of faith who know the difference.

This is just about the freedom to be nasty is all. No one is questioning the right to be a dickhead just the wisdom of acting like one.

[bush_cheney2004]

This is just about the freedom to be nasty is all. No one is questioning the right to be a dickhead just the wisdom of acting like one.

Tough bounce....I would rather go to war to protect "dickhead" freedoms than censoring apologists.

[eyeball]

Tough bounce for who and who said anything about censoring anyone?

[Argus]

Well, the cartoons were reprinted so maybe we'll find out ? I doubt it. Making fun of religious figures can't be equated to hate speech. "Money for Nothing" by Dire Straits though WAS banned, which seems like overkill so who knows.

The ban was rescinded almost immediately.

[Argus]

They're also human, but I said what would the Dalai Lama do, right now, not Sri Lankans back in history.

History? They're doing it today.

Yes, we slowly grew used to it but now we expect everyone else to catch up yesterday.

Sorry? Has the Muslim world been frozen in amber for the last few centuries? Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't that part of the world actually more scientifically and socially advanced than barbarous Europe at one point in time? So what happened?

It's a little phenomenal to get off thinking it's our duty to go around the world expecting everyone and thing to get with our program while kicking them in the ass to speed them along.

It's so precious for you to complain about us going to their countries and bitching at them because we don't like their social mentality when it's them coming to our countries to murder people because they don't like ours. If you're a sixteenth century Muslim wack job then go live in your festering hole in the desert and don't try to live among civilized people. Simple enough, isn't it?

They just wanted to go out in a blaze of Jihad against the west and probably expected to die yesterday morning along with their victims,

Were that the case I don't think they'd have worn masks and stolen a car to try and keep their identities from being known.

It may seem this is about Muhommad vs cartoonists and comics but the satiristas are actually just making a living supplying derisive and contemptuous criticism for the same consumers who are now demanding more of the same times a million.

And if so, so what? If a lot of people think poorly of Muslim fanatics (they do, and with good reason) why should they not enjoy satire mocking these buffoons? Your attitude seems to be that if only we would stop mocking them the Muslim fanatics would be peaceful, which is an absurd position totally at odds with reality.

Why don't you man up and go stand in front of a mosque with a drawing of Muhammad having sex with a pig yourself?

I'm just not much of an artist, I guess.

Just tell them you're on a Crusade to uplift Islam and Muslims to the same point the west is at and see how far that gets you.

If they're not capable of accepting mockery, insults and satire without committing murder then they need to leave this country and not return.

Edited January 9, 2015 by Argus

[Argus]

Free speech does not include shouting "FIRE!" in a crowded theater.

Writing a nasty cartoon is insulting but hardly likely to cause intelligent human beings to panic and trample each other.

Does anybody really believe that this latest incident in Paris was an attempt to curtail criticism of Islam?

Yes, almost everyone does, and the terrorists said as much. They cannot abide any kind of critique of Islam, be it the thoughtful, Salman Rushdie sort, or the jeering, semi-pornographic Charlie Hebdo kind. Their instant response is to murder whoever issues the critique.

But by all means, go and crawl, and desperately ban anything which might offend them. Just be aware the list of what offends them is very, very, very long.

[Argus]

NO, I recall reading a few things over the years about this Charlie Hebdo collective in Paris, though I did not pay much attention or give it a lot of thought. In spite of all the spin we are getting on the news over the last 48 hours, they were not equal opportunity critics by a long shot!

Oh well, it was okay to murder them, then.

Any magazines in Canada you don't happen to like?

[Argus]

Those murdering terrorists must be sharing "high fives" after seeing the Harper speech to-day. He has just declared that "Jihadists have declared war on the West" opening the door to a military response. Well done terrorists.

On 9/11, it took 19 suicidal fanatics to get the USA to march into a trap that cost $trillions, cost tens of thousands of Western lives, cost hundreds of thousands of Arab and Middle East lives and created a schism between West and Islamic countries.

Now we have 3 murderous (smart) nut cases, going on a killing binge and getting the bigots, racists and skinheads all riled up and ready to support more military action in the Middle East. Onward Christian Soldiers !!!

Remember, either stand behind your troops or stand in front of them!

Good grief!

So if I've basically gotten the gist of your attitude correct, what we should instead do is cry, then ban anything similar which might offend the terrorists, and then apologize to them whenever something new offends them, and ban that, too. Probably we should criminalize anything which offends Muslims, too, right?

[bush_cheney2004]

Tough bounce for who and who said anything about censoring anyone?

The legal response to offensive freedom of expression is more freedom of expression....not summary execution.

[Wilber]

This is just about the freedom to be nasty is all. No one is questioning the right to be a dickhead just the wisdom of acting like one.

The penalty for acting like a dick head should be death. You would fit right in with these morons

[Rue]

1-they were not equal opportunity critics by a long shot!

2-they targeted religion more than politics as general subject areas

3-This is a problem right from the start, because only in the simplistic, neatly bordered universe of new atheism, can religion be studied and critiqued in complete separation from politics and economic realities.

4-summary of some of the worst and most offensive cartoons, and they are not only anti-Muslim, they also play into the racism and cultural xenophobia that so many French feel...

5-A favorite standup comic of mine - Jimmy Dore (used to be a regular on Comedy Central...does a weekly podcast show, made the observation a couple of years ago about his chosen livelihood, that the job of the standup comic who does political and social commentary, is to impugn and mock the priviledged and powerful/ not to attack the poor and the downtrodden

Thank you for the comments. Well stated in response.

To start with in regards to 5, well I personally find Jimmy Dore quite funny and I think what he said was interesting and I certainly agree with that. I guess where you and I differ is that I do not see Muslim extremists as poor and downtrodden but in fact the privilged and powerful in their society oppressing the downtrodden. I do not see Muslim extremists as victims at all. I see them as elitist. It is also not an accident that so many of the terrorist leaders come from high class families in their countries.

In regards to 1, I think its far to say they spent a lot of time criticizing Muslim extremism yes but could it be that it was because there was not as much extremism going in in Europe caused by other conservative religous groups or do you think for no reason they picked on Muslim extremists-be fair-could it be that attention was a reaction to Muslim extremist initiated behaviour and not simply plucked out of the blue?

In regards to 2, absolutely and precisely my point-they were targeting conservative religious dogma not people per se or politics per se;

In regards to 3-I respectfuly disagree-its ironic but in fact the Charlie Hebdo family had an economist in their group and most certainly their religious criticism incorporated political and economic concepts, its hard to miss that in some of the cartoons;

In regards to 4-I am a Jew, I went to Universite de Montpelliers on a scholarship as a young man; lived there a bit-I am well aware of the anti-semitism, the anti-Islam sentiment, etc., but let's be careful when we understand the dialogue in France-its not about xenophobia against Muslims or racism against Muslims-it is a disdain for anyone, Jewish, Muslim, Catholic, anyone, of any colour or religion or political view, that thinks they do not have to assimilate to certain core of basic fundamental French values.

There is no doubt there is guttet racism towards Africans or Algerians or jews who are visible and Muslims who are visibly different but its an intolerance that comes from believing the failure to assimilate shows contempt for Frenc culture.

When I was in Paris, I found myself discriminated against but not because I was Jewish but because I spoke French like a Montrealer and they laughed out loud at my accent and referred to me as the equivalent as a squirrel the way they said I chatted in French. There was an open contempt for Quebec French. Is that racist? French particularly Parisiens are snot heads. Always have been. For God's sake they boast about their Museums full of stolen artifacts.

That snot nosed arrogance applies against all. I am not excusing it but its a cultural arrogance that comes along with Parisiens thinking they are the centre of the universe as to what is right and that is probably the bias or racism or xenophobia you are picking up.

Hell I travelled. I was insulted. Then again I learned French in the South are far different and down to earth, etc.,and not all Parisiens are snot nosed elitists, etc.

I lost my virginity in France. I owe it.

To be serious, yes sure on one level you can argue there are tensions all across Europe that deal with intolerance but its a two edged sword. If you come to a country and refuse to assimilate it comes across as you being insulting as well.

When in Rome do what the Romans do, is there something wrong with that?

Well in Canada we have a huge country with 33 million people and we like thinking a Canadian can retain their old ways and remain resistant to a degree of assimilation they expect in France or the US or Germany or Belgium.

Is the US racist because it has a melting pot approach to culturalism and puts the American identity first and whatever else you are second? Is that automatically racist?

See my point.

I can say yes at one level there is a crude hatred for different people. But I can also say I expect people who see me resisting their values not trusting me.

How do I expect a Christian to treat me as a jew if I challenge their right to celebrate Christmas or demand when I swim in a public pool it be closed off to Christians? No it can not work that way.

So there was my point and attempt to respond to your excellent points.

[eyeball]

The penalty for acting like a dick head should be death. You would fit right in with these morons

Nice touch, I exercise my freedom to speak my mind and the hope is that I end up dead. How ironic.

Oh well as long as we're all getting comfortable with really speaking freely, I sure wish the terrorists could tell who their real enemies in the west are so they could better focus on attacking them instead of innocent people who have no dog in this fight.

[Guest]

Deleted

Edited January 9, 2015 by bcsapper

[Wilber]

Nice touch, I exercise my freedom to speak my mind and the hope is that I end up dead. How ironic.

Oh well as long as we're all getting comfortable with really speaking freely, I sure wish the terrorists could tell who their real enemies in the west are so they could better focus on attacking them instead of innocent people who have no dog in this fight.

So we shouldn't mention the atrocities these people commit or the way they have perverted this religion because they might get mad and hurt someone? Just what are you trying to say?

[Bonam]

So we shouldn't mention the atrocities these people commit or the way they have perverted this religion because they might get mad and hurt someone? Just what are you trying to say?

He's saying he'd be happy to see all his neighbors killed by terrorists as long as he himself was left alone.

He failed to learn the lessons of history.

"First they came for the... "

[eyeball]

So we shouldn't mention the atrocities these people commit or the way they have perverted this religion because they might get mad and hurt someone? Just what are you trying to say?

Do no harm, it's really that simple.

Speaking of atrocious perversion are you one of these guys who think a million cartoons of Muhammad porking a pig will help? I wonder how the family of the Muslim cop that was executed will feel about that. Just mentionin'.

I'm also saying that this War is a Clash of Radicals and both of you are doing your level best to silence every moderate on the planet that isn't with you.

Like I said you guys are perfect enemies, for each other.

[eyeball]

He's saying he'd be happy to see all his neighbors killed by terrorists as long as he himself was left alone.

No, I said I don't want to be collateral damage in the crossfire between radicalized westerners and their radical enemies.

He failed to learn the lessons of history. "First they came for the... "

Oh I'm definitely concerned about that too given the call for legislation outlawing inflammatory language I heard coming from a western radical on a CBC panel that was analyzing the the War on Parliament.

[Argus]

I'm also saying that this War is a Clash of Radicals

A clash of radicals? Was the soldier standing guard at the war monument a radical? Was the female cop who tried to write a parking ticket in Paris a radical? Are those women in the kosher deli radicals? What about the people who died on the trains in Spain or the subways in London, or the World Trade Center in New York, were they radicals?

What this is is a vast, nihilistic religion has given rise to a death cult of nihilists whose only purpose is to kill and to die. And they really don't care how nice you are. They will kill you anyway. Because you don't believe as they believe.

[Michael Hardner]

What this is is a vast, nihilistic religion...

"Nihilistic religion" is an oxymoron.

[eyeball]

A clash of radicals? Was the soldier standing guard at the war monument a radical? Was the female cop who tried to write a parking ticket in Paris a radical? Are those women in the kosher deli radicals? What about the people who died on the trains in Spain or the subways in London, or the World Trade Center in New York, were they radicals?

They were probably collateral damage. But it's really hard to tell radicals from a general population, most don't wear uniforms. It's a real problem for innocent people.

What this is is a vast, nihilistic religion has given rise to a death cult of nihilists whose only purpose is to kill and to die. And they really don't care how nice you are. They will kill you anyway. Because you don't believe as they.

Yep, if you've seen one radical you've pretty much seem then all.

[Boges]

Were Abortion Doctors killed by Fringe Christians also a radical?

You're basically saying that if you get killed by a terrorist because of something you said that inflamed them, you had it coming.

Did those soldiers in Quebec and Ottawa have it coming in November?