The Cost of Balancing the Budget

[cybercoma]

The Tories are on track to balance the budget next year. Since Harper has taken office, they have slashed revenues from the federal purse. So where is the money coming from? CCPA released a report outlining the cutbacks, which will directly impact veteran's services, the unemployed, and food safety inspections.

Some of the highlights include the following:

1. From 2011-12 until 2014-15, Veteran's Affairs staff has been cut by 24% and will lose an additional 1% by 2016-17 (p. 6).
2. Between March 2012 and April 2016, HRSDC will have its staff cut by 24% (p. 7).
3. Between 2012 and 2016, Canada Food Inspection will lose 20% of its total staff; the program that monitors mad cow disease will lose half of its staff (p. 8).

The $14.5 Billion being cut from the federal service by the Tories is not simply accounting techniques and culling the chaff. It will have a profound effect on frontline services for veterans, the unemployed, and anyone who expects their food to be safe. It doesn't stop there. These are just the most profound cuts.

[Michael Hardner]

Staff cuts don't equate 1-1 with service cuts. Do we have a baseline for service levels today ? What am I saying... of course we don't.

[cybercoma]

Staff cuts don't equate 1-1 with service cuts. Do we have a baseline for service levels today ? What am I saying... of course we don't.

Read the report. It elaborates on how it has affected frontline services already. Like for instance, millions of blocked calls on the EI help lines, where callers aren't even added to a queue due to the overload.

[Smallc]

That says more about government inefficiency than anything.

[Michael Hardner]

I agree that there is something there but we need more of a dialogue than that report. The example of the Veteran's Affairs change seems like a reasonable change, but the other changes need to be responded to by the government.

Why are they comparing blocked calls from 2006 to 2012 ? Not sure...

https://www.google.ca/search?q=ei+call+volume&oq=ei+call+volume&aqs=chrome..69i57.2343j0j7&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=122&ie=UTF-8

[Boges]

Public Services are always in a unique position. Any drop in performance or service can be blamed on revenue.

[Bonam]

1. From 2011-12 until 2014-15, Veteran's Affairs staff has been cut by 24% and will lose an additional 1% by 2016-17 (p. 6).

Most vets are from WWII, aren't they? Their numbers are constantly dwindling, aren't they? Wouldn't one expect the budget of a department to shrink commensurately with a decrease in the number of people it is servicing?

[Derek 2.0]

1. From 2011-12 until 2014-15, Veteran's Affairs staff has been cut by 24% and will lose an additional 1% by 2016-17 (p. 6)

From 2011-2017, what percentage of Veteran Affairs workload has seen a reduction? It stands to reason, as the World War II and Korean vets pass, Veteran's Affairs should see a reduction in both staff levels and funding...

[Smallc]

No, no, no. Don't you see? Once you grow government, it can never again shrink.

[Derek 2.0]

Most vets are from WWII, aren't they? Their numbers are constantly dwindling, aren't they? Wouldn't one expect the budget of a department to shrink commensurately with a decrease in the number of people it is servicing?

Exactly, not to be crass, but my Father (a Korean War Vet) is nearly 84, the remaining World War II vets will be 87-88 years or older.......as these Vets pass on, the remainder (my generation) will be Peacetime Cold Warriors and the next generation from Afghanistan...in relative terms, far less personal, requiring far less the same level of service....

[On Guard for Thee]

Apparently about 5 billion went south. Let me say that again 5 BILLION. How do you lose 5 billion?

[Peter F]

by counting (since 2012) Federal Civil Servants total banked sick days as a unfunded liability ($5 billion)

[Michael Hardner]

Public Services are always in a unique position. Any drop in performance or service can be blamed on revenue.

But... how should we deal with performance and service ?

Surely we need to do it somehow. I'm not about to give up the right to be treated well just because I'm dealing with the government, or one of Canada's favoured monopolies. I never have been that way.

[Topaz]

Any government can balance the budget by cutting really deep and I think I'm right when I say, the cuts have hurt many Canadians, put thousands out work, reduce the Environment budget 70%, which was reported in the House. The Liberals took at hit when they were accused of cutting the military, but the Tories have done worse, in my view, by hurting Canadians and hurt the vets. Their tax-splitting for the rich will wipe out the surplus, and we are in a war, which will probably ended up in the billions, since war isn't cheap. The only thing that may help the country is the pipeline to the US and voting out the Tories.

[Boges]

Of course when the Chretien Liberals cut, they were brilliant right?

[Moonbox]

Read the report. It elaborates on how it has affected frontline services already. Like for instance, millions of blocked calls on the EI help lines, where callers aren't even added to a queue due to the overload.

Cyber out of curiosity, how much credence do you give to Fraser Institute, or Canadian Taxpayer Federation reports? You can probably guess why I'm asking...

[Moonbox]

The only thing that may help the country is the pipeline to the US and voting out the Tories.

Yes you've been plugging that line for as long as I've been in this forum. Anything Tories do = Bad. Anything Liberals do = Good.

Thank you for your, as always, insightful contributions.

[Keepitsimple]

Most vets are from WWII, aren't they? Their numbers are constantly dwindling, aren't they? Wouldn't one expect the budget of a department to shrink commensurately with a decrease in the number of people it is servicing?

You're absolutely right - even though it's a sad reality:

By some estimates, nearly 50 of the war’s veterans die each day. Veterans Affairs Canada keeps an annual count of those remaining that, last March, totalled 91,400. Since then, that count has almost certainly dipped below 90,000, said department spokeswoman Janice Summerby.

“They’re not statistics, they’re individuals in the twilight of their lives,” said Summerby.

The Legion’s thinning membership rolls tell part of that tale: in 1985 it sat at 602,000 falling to 348,000 in 2010, to 298,000 this year.

Most of those older veterans are now so far into their twilight, said Wheeler, that they’re more likely to be found at care centres like Calgary’s Col. Belcher, than hoisting a cold one at a Legion branch.

“We don’t see those faces anymore,” she said.

Korean War vets, at almost the same age as their Second World War cousins but in far smaller numbers to begin with, are “almost all gone,” said Wheeler.

[ProudCanadianConservative]

The purpose of balancing the budget is to avoid collecting more debt, would you agree that balancing the budget is an important pursuit of any government regardless of party? If not, why not? I guess I might receive a lecture of cutting during a recession, but I don't believe Canada is in a recession, regardless of what I think of deficit spending during a recession. Now cutting vs tax increases, well tax increases do not necessarily result in more revenue- laffer curve.

Now as far as the specific programs being cut, veterans is sadly a declining population in Canada, but to some I guess cutting department budget means services will drastically reduce. Anyways I personally believe in zero based budgeting, meaning instead of every department budget starting from what they made the previous year, we have all departments start at 0, and dole out revenue based upon current need for the department.

[hitops]

But... how should we deal with performance and service ?

Surely we need to do it somehow. I'm not about to give up the right to be treated well just because I'm dealing with the government, or one of Canada's favoured monopolies. I never have been that way.

The right to be treated well exists only in your own mind, there is no such legal right. In reality, if somebody doesn't treat you well you normally go elsewhere where they do. This is not an option in government, which is very much the problem. This is not ideology, we have for example the fact that government workers call in sick 2x as much as the average. Now why is that, are places of gov employment just cesspools of viruses?

The work delivered vs salary paid ratio will always be poor in government work. The question is how much of an additional premium you are willing to pay to have a basic level of service and competence. Perhaps you are willing to have gov workers compensated 2x their real value to ensure this?

Edited November 14, 2014 by hitops

[cybercoma]

How much are you willing to pay for gazebos and fake lakes?

[Boges]

How much are you willing to pay for gazebos and fake lakes?

A 2010 reference? I hope JT uses that against Harper during the campaign.

[The_Squid]

A 2010 reference? I hope JT uses that against Harper during the campaign.

LOL

Conservatives have been dredging stuff up from 15 years ago!

I think how this government has misspent money while it has been governing is entirely relevant.

Edit:

Conservatives have been dredging stuff up from 35 years ago.... bringing up the Trudeau government from the 70's!

Edited November 14, 2014 by The_Squid

[Moonbox]

Conservatives have been dredging stuff up from 35 years ago.... bringing up the Trudeau government from the 70's!

Well Trudeau Sr single-handedly made Western Canada a wasteland for the Liberals for 35 years. The gazebo etc might be more recent, but as we saw back in 2010 the only people who really cared were the ones who complain about the Tories by default anyways!

Edited November 14, 2014 by Moonbox

[Boges]

LOL

Conservatives have been dredging stuff up from 15 years ago!

I think how this government has misspent money while it has been governing is entirely relevant.

Edit:

Conservatives have been dredging stuff up from 35 years ago.... bringing up the Trudeau government from the 70's!

You need to cite the most recent Sponsorship scandal reference from the CPC.

If they're going to try to beat JT using citing stuff Chretien did, they deserve to lose. Just as JT would deserve to lose if he thinks Canada cares about G20 spending. All 3 levels of government screwed the G8/G20 up. The CPC won a majority the next year, get over it.

Of course I've never heard him talk about that, this is just message board speak. I don't expect to hear the stuff that's important to people on this board to be front-of-mind for the Liberals campaign next year. (RoboCall, G20, Duffy, F22 etc)

Edited November 14, 2014 by Boges