2 more liberal MP's gone.

[Smallc]

Yeah, I doubt many people will care what he has to say.

[On Guard for Thee]

Oh I bet Harper will care...a lot. I'm willing to go out on a limb and bet you his stuffed shirts have as much or more to hide within their ranks of that kind of thinking. Maybe that's why Harper feeds them their confoundedly annoying talking points each day. Maybe Peter didn't get the memeo.

[cybercoma]

Yeah, I doubt many people will care what he has to say.

Do you just cut and paste this stupid crap? Every time someone around Harper does something idiotic, you're in here like Pavlov's dogs saying "nobody cares." The PMO seemed to care enough to release a statement on Goldring's behalf.

Edited November 27, 2014 by cybercoma

[Smallc]

Because no one does. If Jason Kenny said it, then people would care. I doubt that anyone really thinks that Liberals are all a bunch of rapists now. I don't know, most people don't care about this stuff. It isn't my fault. People care about their own lives and things that affect them.

[On Guard for Thee]

Have you actually listened/read what Goldring said?

[Smallc]

Yes, actually I have. It was paranoid ramblings.

[scribblet]

Well, this has sure gone down hill, not worth adding anything with all the insults flying around.

Suffice to say, the NDP MP who is making these allegations has now spoken to several news outlets alleging that Pacetti forced himself on her in his hotel room earlier this year, without explicit consent. She is still unnamed and has made no formal complaint. Rape is serious enough to warrant a formal complaint and considering that MP Pacetti issued a statement affirming he is "innocent of any misconduct" she needs to make it formal. In other words, put up or shut up IMO.

[scribblet]

Yes, actually I have. It was paranoid ramblings.

Indeed and he's since retracted it.

[On Guard for Thee]

Oh if it's a conservative making these type comments then it's only paranoid ramblings? Sorry. That ain't gonna work.

[PIK]

Trudeau should have called the 2 guys in and told them what was happening.Let them tell their side and then get the party leaders together and hammer something out.

[scribblet]

Well, as Walkom of the Star says

,Indeed, if A’s account is correct, it may be that Pacetti’s only crimes are adultery and terminal stupidity.

Is that enough for Liberal Leader Justin Trudeau to permanently bar him from caucus? Given the general tawdriness of the incident, Trudeau could probably get away with deep-sixing the Quebec MP.

But if adultery and stupidity become firing offences on Parliament Hill, many MPs — both male and female — could feel the effects. Trudeau may regret it if he sets this particular precedent.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2014/11/26/commons_harassment_victim_paints_tawdry_but_not_criminal_picture_walkom.html

[Smallc]

Oh if it's a conservative making these type comments then it's only paranoid ramblings? Sorry. That ain't gonna work.

You seem to mistake me for some kind of partisan. There's only one party far enough to the conservative side for me right now. There used to be two.

[overthere]

Well, this has sure gone down hill, not worth adding anything with all the insults flying around.

Suffice to say, the NDP MP who is making these allegations has now spoken to several news outlets alleging that Pacetti forced himself on her in his hotel room earlier this year, without explicit consent. She is still unnamed and has made no formal complaint. Rape is serious enough to warrant a formal complaint and considering that MP Pacetti issued a statement affirming he is "innocent of any misconduct" she needs to make it formal. In other words, put up or shut up IMO.

Does it matter if there is any truth to the unsubstantiated allegations against Pacetti at this point?

The outcome for him is the same. His career is over, and people will be whispering and calling him 'rapist' the rest of his life. The evidence or lack or evidence is not relevant now.

Presumption of innocence my ass.

[The_Squid]

Presumption of innocence is for courts. Clearly people don't need to do that in the real world, and you're a hypocrite, or a liar, if you say you do. Look at many threads on here about crimes. People judge guilt long before any trials have taken place.

We look at the available evidence and make a judgement. In this case, I see political ideology, and occasionally sexism, seems to be the deciding factor with this story.

[overthere]

Presumption of innocence is for courts. Clearly people don't need to do that in the real world, and you're a hypocrite, or a liar, if you say you do. Look at many threads on here about crimes. People judge guilt long before any trials have taken place.

We look at the available evidence and make a judgement. In this case, I see political ideology, and occasionally sexism, seems to be the deciding factor with this story.

What I see when I look at what you call 'available evidence' is a redneck judgemental attitude with complete disdain for the rule of law.

Sorry bud, I don't share your view that presumption of innocence is for the courts alone.

I see Pacetti as a human being worthy of being given the due process of law instead of your preference for a pretrial lynching. He has the right to confront his accuser in a venue where both are obliged to speak the truth if they speak at all.

Respect for the rule of law is at the very heart of the quality of our lives in Canada, and I'm sorry you feel the need to insult me because I insist on that. Because people judge with no basis in fact is not in any way compelling me to do the same, the opposite is true. But do enjoy yourself in that pastime.

[Big Guy]

Peter Goldring is the prime example why one should never get involved in any communications when you have been drinking.

[Smallc]

Presumption of innocence is for courts.

Lets lynch him then. Maybe we could burn him for being a witch even? Do you see how ridiculous your statement is?

[The_Squid]

Lets lynch him then. Maybe we could burn him for being a witch even? Do you see how ridiculous your statement is?

No. We all make these judgements, whether you admit it or not. How many here thought that the black kid in Ferguson punched the cop? No presumption of innocence there.... particularly if you're a right-winger on the political spectrum.

[Topaz]

Either the woman had sex with the guy or she was raped and since she hasn't said it was rape then she has no case. I am talking about THIS situation and no other.

[Argus]

Yes. Perhaps if we just stop talking about sexual assault it will just go away, says the person who is far less likely to be sexual assaulted in their lifetime.

This does not sound like a case of sexual assault. And that's just from hearing her version. We haven't even heard from him.

[Argus]

Do you just cut and paste this stupid crap? Every time someone around Harper does something idiotic, you're in here like Pavlov's dogs saying "nobody cares." The PMO seemed to care enough to release a statement on Goldring's behalf.

It's interesting that he cited the need for protection from 'authority figures'. I'm presuming that meant he wears his microphone when communicating with the party whip, the PMO and other senior Tories. I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest they probably aren't too happy about that idea.

[Bonam]

Presumption of innocence is for courts. Clearly people don't need to do that in the real world, and you're a hypocrite, or a liar, if you say you do. Look at many threads on here about crimes. People judge guilt long before any trials have taken place.

We look at the available evidence and make a judgement. In this case, I see political ideology, and occasionally sexism, seems to be the deciding factor with this story.

Yes, people may make a judgement based on available evidence, before the courts do. But for most reasonable people, to make a judgement based on available evidence... some evidence has to be available, at least a little bit. If the only thing available is an accusation by a single alleged victim, and no other evidence, that's not much to base a judgement on.

Edited November 27, 2014 by Bonam

[Bonam]

No. We all make these judgements, whether you admit it or not. How many here thought that the black kid in Ferguson punched the cop? No presumption of innocence there.... particularly if you're a right-winger on the political spectrum.

I for one made no judgement until evidence was available. But I would say there were probably more people here who instantly assumed the cop was a racist and shot Brown because of that.

[Argus]

I for one made no judgement until evidence was available. But I would say there were probably more people here who instantly assumed the cop was a racist and shot Brown because of that.

When I first heard of it the story was a cop had shot down a black teenager for walking in the street, and that the teenager had no record or history of involvement in crime or gangs. My first thought was that the cop had screwed up royally. That pretty much disappeared when i saw the CC video from the store and read that he was 6'4 (or 6;5" in some reports) and 300 lbs. When I heard he was not crossing the street but walking down the middle of it I figured he was an arrogant jerk looking for trouble who found it.

[The_Squid]

When I first heard of it the story was a cop had shot down a black teenager for walking in the street, and that the teenager had no record or history of involvement in crime or gangs. My first thought was that the cop had screwed up royally. That pretty much disappeared when i saw the CC video from the store and read that he was 6'4 (or 6;5" in some reports) and 300 lbs. When I heard he was not crossing the street but walking down the middle of it I figured he was an arrogant jerk looking for trouble who found it.

So was he found guilty of robbing a store and punching a cop? Or did you make this judgement all on your own, looking at the available evidence, without presuming he's innocent until proven guilty in court?