Jian Ghomeshi Fired from Q

[Michael Hardner]

Apparently it happened back in 2006. Why did she wait 8 years to say anything?

There are a lot of reasons why. She says, even now, that she expected to be destroyed for coming forward.

[kimmy]

I never heard of this 40+ year old perv before...why would he be such an attraction to young women ? Is he related to Justin Bieber ?

He's apparently very witty and charismatic, he had a national radio show, and he got to interview famous people on a regular basis.

Younger women have been attracted to older men for less.

-k

[kimmy]

Gomeshi had a history of hitting on young women. Let's not forget he is also an ex-musician. He is used to 'groupies' and knows how to manipulate them. He knows far more than the CBC on how to manipulate these women and let's remember that none of his victims reported him to the police. The CBC does not monitor the personal lives of their employees.

First off, I can't believe that Moxie Fruvous ever had 'groupies'. That ... can not be possible.

But that aside, if it had just been a matter of using his fame to get with young women then this would not be a news story. Women of legal age can go chase after celebrities if they want, and it's not anybody else's responsibility to look after them.

If CBC had knowledge that Ghomeshi dated a lot of young women, their response should be "that's none of our business."

But if CBC had knowledge that Ghomeshi made life hell for his female co-workers, then they had a responsibility to act. And if CBC had information that Ghomeshi's personal life may have veered into criminal territory, they also had a duty to at the very least notify the police, and also discuss the situation with Ghomeshi.

What responsibility CBC bears depends entirely on what they knew and when they knew it.

-k

[jacee]

Apparently it happened back in 2006. Why did she wait 8 years to say anything? This is not excusing Jian's alleged behaviour.

Safety and support in numbers.

There is no statute of limitations on sexual assault.

.

[Michael Hardner]

First off, I can't believe that Moxie Fruvous ever had 'groupies'. That ... can not be possible.

I know someone who was in a competing band who said that they lost their groupies to MF.

Here's some evidence that supports your idea, though:

[bush_cheney2004]

He's apparently very witty and charismatic, he had a national radio show, and he got to interview famous people on a regular basis.

So does Kim Komando, but that doesn't mean I want her to tie me up and spank my butt.

[TimG]

What responsibility CBC bears depends entirely on what they knew and when they knew it.

From what I have read:

1) The CBC was aware of complaints and did try to find a compromise that would support the women complaining without killing the golden goose. In one case the women was given several options for pursuing the grievance but chose not to. It may seem to little given what we know now but it sounds reasonable.

2) The CBC had no reason to believe that Ghomeshi's narrative was not true until Ghomeshi showed them video of some "consensual" S&M (it was intended to exonerate him). As soon as they saw it they dropped him.

So far CBC management is looking like they did the best they could with a difficult situation but my assessment could change as new fact emerge.

Edited November 1, 2014 by TimG

[bush_cheney2004]

Interesting, as barring any criminal or civil action, it was/is still customary to settle such claims with cash and non-disclosure agreements. This was no longer possible by the CBC once the story went public.

[kimmy]

So does Kim Komando, but that doesn't mean I want her to tie me up and spank my butt.

The women who've come forward made clear they didn't expect that their experience with Ghomeshi would jump from first base straight to hitting and choking.

-k

[Michael Hardner]

The CBC was aware of complaints and did try to find a compromise that would support the women complaining without killing the golden goose.

So far CBC management is looking like they did the best they could with a difficult situation.

Those two sentences only make sense together if you think that management has no responsibility to behave ethically.

[TimG]

Those two sentences only make sense together if you think that management has no responsibility to behave ethically.

You are assuming that management has a responsibility to assume the worst and not give an employee the benefit of the doubt. At this point there is no evidence that the CBC knew that Gomenshi's private activities crossed the line into criminal assault. It is the job of police to investigate such matters - not employers.

[Michael Hardner]

You are assuming that management has a responsibility to assume the worst and not give an employee the benefit of the doubt.

I took from your first sentence that they were trying to find a way out of the problem, to preserve a successful show.

At this point there is no evidence that the CBC knew that Gomenshi's private activities crossed the line into criminal assault. It is the job of police to investigate such matters - not employers.

True - but one account of the complaint says that the union and management buried the problem. As I said above, something more will probably come out to support whether this is true or not.

[jacee]

Q Guests Come Out Against Ghomeshi Via Growing Petition Supporting The Women

Petition

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/gesture-of-love/?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=button#

[TimG]

I took from your first sentence that they were trying to find a way out of the problem, to preserve a successful show.

There is an accusation of sexual harrassment in the workplace that is pretty minor compared to allegations which are now being made. Attempting to find a compromise that does not torpedo a popular show is a reasonable course of action provided the victim feels her complaint is taken seriously. The judgement here has to be made by the woman who made the complaint.

[bush_cheney2004]

Be careful folks...many of these petition sites are phishing and spam scams.

[jacee]

Conrad Black weighs in:

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2014/11/01/conrad-black-the-left-has-lost-its-grip-on-toronto/

This brings me to the charming and talented Jian Ghomeshi. The CBCs dismissal of him on the basis of denunciations sought and magnified by the same Toronto Star that tried to purge the mayor is unjust. Obviously, I know nothing of Jian Ghomeshis sexual conduct, but it hasnt been the subject even of a complaint to the police, much less a charge or conviction, and the only two identified complainants refer to alleged incidents from a decade ago.

The pious insipidity of CBC management is notorious and I, too, have experienced it, (and this is not a complaint about their on-air personnel, nor an attack on public broadcasting, a concept I support). In politics as in employment generally, a society where careers are ruined by unsubstantiated denunciations is not civilized, and the authors of such acts are apt to be less fit to retain their jobs than their targeted victims.

[cybercoma]

Apparently it happened back in 2006. Why did she wait 8 years to say anything? This is not excusing Jian's alleged behaviour.

Yes. Actually it is. You're questioning her account because she didn't come forward with it right away. It's irrelevant why she didn't.

[cybercoma]

First off, I can't believe that Moxie Fruvous ever had 'groupies'. That ... can not be possible.

But that aside, if it had just been a matter of using his fame to get with young women then this would not be a news story. Women of legal age can go chase after celebrities if they want, and it's not anybody else's responsibility to look after them.

If CBC had knowledge that Ghomeshi dated a lot of young women, their response should be "that's none of our business."

But if CBC had knowledge that Ghomeshi made life hell for his female co-workers, then they had a responsibility to act. And if CBC had information that Ghomeshi's personal life may have veered into criminal territory, they also had a duty to at the very least notify the police, and also discuss the situation with Ghomeshi.

What responsibility CBC bears depends entirely on what they knew and when they knew it.

-k

This is exactly the issue with this story now. There's two facets to it. One is Jian's personal life and the other is Jian harassing women in the workplace. The question now is not whether or not Jian assaulted these women, that much is clear. It's ridiculously unlike that 9 women would lie about this. What's not clear now is how much CBC knew and when they knew it. Now it's a question about whether CBC was complicit in his harassment in the workplace. Suggestion has been that they knew about it, but he was so popular and making them so much money that they were willing to turn a blind eye. Remember Jerry Sandusky?

[cybercoma]

Conrad Black weighs in:

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2014/11/01/conrad-black-the-left-has-lost-its-grip-on-toronto/

This brings me to the charming and talented Jian Ghomeshi. The CBCs dismissal of him on the basis of denunciations sought and magnified by the same Toronto Star that tried to purge the mayor is unjust. Obviously, I know nothing of Jian Ghomeshis sexual conduct, but it hasnt been the subject even of a complaint to the police, much less a charge or conviction, and the only two identified complainants refer to alleged incidents from a decade ago.

The pious insipidity of CBC management is notorious and I, too, have experienced it, (and this is not a complaint about their on-air personnel, nor an attack on public broadcasting, a concept I support). In politics as in employment generally, a society where careers are ruined by unsubstantiated denunciations is not civilized, and the authors of such acts are apt to be less fit to retain their jobs than their targeted victims.

Does anyone give a crap what Conrad Black thinks about anything anymore? He can piss off.

[Michael Hardner]

Attempting to find a compromise that does not torpedo a popular show is a reasonable course of action provided the victim feels her complaint is taken seriously. The judgement here has to be made by the woman who made the complaint.

It's the word "compromise" that I find problematic. Any company the size of the CBC will have processes in place that don't take into account the importance of the target of the complaint. But you're right, the complaintant would be the one who would have to be heard.

We're just conjecturing here, as it is there are reports that the complaintant didn't mention sexual harassment.

[jacee]

It's the word "compromise" that I find problematic. Any company the size of the CBC will have processes in place that don't take into account the importance of the target of the complaint. But you're right, the complaintant would be the one who would have to be heard.

We're just conjecturing here, as it is there are reports that the complaintant didn't mention sexual harassment.

I wouldn't get too fussed trying to dismiss this one complainant. I expect by the time cbc finishes their investigation there will be more come to light ... maybe even a culture that discouraged women from complaining about god jian.

That's cbc's problem.

The criminal complaints are more serious.

.

Edited November 1, 2014 by jacee

[Michael Hardner]

I wouldn't get too fussed trying to dismiss this one complainant. I expect by the time cbc finishes their investigation there will be more come to light ... maybe even a culture that discouraged women from complaining about god jian.

.

Probably, maybe.... it seems like a rigid organization with a hierarchical and political environment. That usually spells trouble.

[bush_cheney2004]

Probably, maybe.... it seems like a rigid organization with a hierarchical and political environment. That usually spells trouble.

I would expect nothing less from a nation's state broadcaster.

[Michael Hardner]

I would expect nothing less from a nation's state broadcaster.

...or our state banks, or our state telcos, or power companies...

[jacee]

Probably, maybe.... it seems like a rigid organization with a hierarchical and political environment. That usually spells trouble.

More the norm than the exception.

.