jbg Posted August 17, 2014 Report Posted August 17, 2014 Justin Trudeau's father, Pierre, refused to protect property rights in the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. The nominal excuse was the NDP. I suspect that he and Justin really don't believe in private property. That seems to be changing, and for unfortunate reasons (link to article, excerpts below): Justin Trudeau and family 'extremely troubled' after home broken into while wife, kids slept OTTAWA — Justin Trudeau says he and his family are “extremely troubled” after their Ottawa home was broken into Saturday morning while his wife and children slept. The Liberal leader himself was working in Winnipeg at the time. **************** “We’re a little bit rattled but we’re hoping that investigation and security will keep us safe,” Trudeau said. One of my political science professors at Cornell, during fall 1978 was an avowed Socialist. Indeed his leanings were part of the syllabus. In a lecture he said that he had "second thoughts" after the robbery. I wonder if Justin is now having similar reservations. Again, I take no joy in his family's fear and misfortune. I have a wife and two teen-age sons and understand the hell he would be going through since his work takes him away from home. Still, private property has a reason for existing. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
Big Guy Posted August 17, 2014 Report Posted August 17, 2014 I do not see this as a question of property rights but one of security. We spend over $20 million a year in security for our PM. It is time to spend a few dollars on the leaders of all major political parties - if requested. As politics becomes more divisive, the passion for supporting and hating can easily affect the feeble minded to decide to put action to their hate. Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
waldo Posted August 17, 2014 Report Posted August 17, 2014 Justin Trudeau's father, Pierre, refused to protect property rights in the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. if you're going to make the statement, you should proceed to state what your so-called "refusal" was based upon... and how you attribute this to a single person. Please proceed... . The nominal excuse was the NDP. nominal excuse??? For what, by whom? Please proceed... . I suspect that he and Justin really don't believe in private property. what are your "suspicions" based upon? Please proceed... . Quote
BubberMiley Posted August 17, 2014 Report Posted August 17, 2014 if you're going to make the statement, you should proceed to state what your so-called "refusal" was based upon... and how you attribute this to a single person. Please proceed... . nominal excuse??? For what, by whom? Please proceed... . what are your "suspicions" based upon? Please proceed... . I have a feeling the thread wasn't thought through enough to proceed further. But at least it was provocative! Quote "I think it's fun watching the waldick get all excited/knickers in a knot over something." -scribblet
jbg Posted August 17, 2014 Author Report Posted August 17, 2014 I have a feeling the thread wasn't thought through enough to proceed further. But at least it was provocative! I remember from news coverage at the time, that the NDP (not a single person) balked at 5th Amendment type protection of property rights. I think I am entitled to trust my memory without spending time sifting archival coverage from the New York Times. You can if you like research the reason that property rights were unprotected in the Charter. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
BubberMiley Posted August 17, 2014 Report Posted August 17, 2014 I remember from news coverage at the time, that the NDP (not a single person) balked at 5th Amendment type protection of property rights. I think I am entitled to trust my memory without spending time sifting archival coverage from the New York Times. You can if you like research the reason that property rights were unprotected in the Charter. Then why did you say you suspect Trudeau and his father don't believe in property rights? Are you also entitled to speculate with no grounding in reality? Quote "I think it's fun watching the waldick get all excited/knickers in a knot over something." -scribblet
waldo Posted August 17, 2014 Report Posted August 17, 2014 You can if you like research the reason that property rights were unprotected in the Charter. you made the statement and attributed it to a single person... your entire thread OP flows from that statement. As you were challenged, step-up and support your statement, most particularly how you attribute it to a single person. Quote
waldo Posted August 17, 2014 Report Posted August 17, 2014 I remember from news coverage at the time, that the NDP (not a single person) balked at 5th Amendment type protection of property rights. I think I am entitled to trust my memory without spending time sifting archival coverage from the New York Times. do you know anything about the role of Canadian Provinces in entrenching the Canadian Charter of Rights... or subsequent amendments, therein? . Quote
eyeball Posted August 17, 2014 Report Posted August 17, 2014 I'm just as interested in knowing how the heck feeling rattled, private property and socialism got tangled together to form the basis of some mysterious ideological point. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
BubberMiley Posted August 17, 2014 Report Posted August 17, 2014 I think he is entitled to make things up to suit his preconceptions without spending time sifting archival coverage from the New York Times. You can if you like research the reason that property rights were unprotected in the Charter, whatever that means. Quote "I think it's fun watching the waldick get all excited/knickers in a knot over something." -scribblet
GostHacked Posted August 17, 2014 Report Posted August 17, 2014 I do not see this as a question of property rights but one of security. We spend over $20 million a year in security for our PM. It is time to spend a few dollars on the leaders of all major political parties - if requested. As politics becomes more divisive, the passion for supporting and hating can easily affect the feeble minded to decide to put action to their hate. I see it as a security issue as well. But I am not willing to have taxpayers waste more money protecting these idiots who seems to bring it on themselves. An idiotic statement here, a wrong statement there, and someone will want to do some harm to him. If Trudeau feels unsafe, let him pay for his own security. Maybe he can charge more with speaking fees to cover the cost. But there is a thing called eminent domain, where the gov can take your property away from you. So, what property rights? Quote
Derek 2.0 Posted August 17, 2014 Report Posted August 17, 2014 (edited) I do not see this as a question of property rights but one of security. We spend over $20 million a year in security for our PM. It is time to spend a few dollars on the leaders of all major political parties - if requested. As politics becomes more divisive, the passion for supporting and hating can easily affect the feeble minded to decide to put action to their hate. I was surprised that he didn’t have an RCMP detail…none the less, I’d think expensing a home security system, for all his homes (and direct family members’ homes) would be justifiable, until such time as he became the Prime Minister or Leader of the Official Opposition, then being accredited an RCMP security detail. Edited August 17, 2014 by Derek 2.0 Quote
Remiel Posted August 17, 2014 Report Posted August 17, 2014 The OP gave me a serious "WTF?" moment. Break & Enter is not even like other crimes per se. If it were based on Trespassing on Private Property, the crime would be setting foot on the lot. If it were theft, it would be removing something. But the Break & Enter itself is only tangentially, at best, based on the ownership of the door or window. Quote
kimmy Posted August 17, 2014 Report Posted August 17, 2014 One of my political science professors at Cornell, during fall 1978 was an avowed Socialist. Indeed his leanings were part of the syllabus. In a lecture he said that he had "second thoughts" after the robbery. I wonder if Justin is now having similar reservations. Except the Trudeau family wasn't robbed. Some stuff was moved around and a threatening note was left behind. But nothing was removed. So an attempt to link this incident to his father's views on property rights seems rather labored, to say the least. -k Quote (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ Friendly forum facilitator! ┬──┬◡ﾉ(° -°ﾉ)
The_Squid Posted August 17, 2014 Report Posted August 17, 2014 (edited) Except the Trudeau family wasn't robbed. Some stuff was moved around and a threatening note was left behind. But nothing was removed. So an attempt to link this incident to his father's views on property rights seems rather labored, to say the least. -k Even if he was robbed, would private property rights in the Constitution make B&E more illegal? Would robbers respect our private property more? The link between father-son-robbery-constitution-property rights is absurd and silly. Edited August 17, 2014 by The_Squid Quote
BubberMiley Posted August 17, 2014 Report Posted August 17, 2014 Especially since no Trudeau ever expressed opposition to property rights. Very confused indeed. I can see why the topic was quickly abandoned. Quote "I think it's fun watching the waldick get all excited/knickers in a knot over something." -scribblet
jbg Posted August 18, 2014 Author Report Posted August 18, 2014 I was surprised that he didn’t have an RCMP detail…none the less, I’d think expensing a home security system, for all his homes (and direct family members’ homes) would be justifiable, until such time as he became the Prime Minister or Leader of the Official Opposition, then being accredited an RCMP security detail. Remember, Trudeau's party is NOT the Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition. The NDP is. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
jbg Posted August 18, 2014 Author Report Posted August 18, 2014 Especially since no Trudeau ever expressed opposition to property rights. Very confused indeed. I can see why the topic was quickly abandoned. I decided to take my son to his first year of college about 160 km. from home. I was driving. Is not posting while driving 110 km per hour "abandoning" a thread? Or is my having a real family and work life not OK with you? Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
-1=e^ipi Posted August 18, 2014 Report Posted August 18, 2014 I do not see this as a question of property rights but one of security. We spend over $20 million a year in security for our PM. It is time to spend a few dollars on the leaders of all major political parties - if requested. As politics becomes more divisive, the passion for supporting and hating can easily affect the feeble minded to decide to put action to their hate. Or maybe it is time to rethink the necessity of these leaders to begin with. Why does a country or political party need a leader to function? Quote
-1=e^ipi Posted August 18, 2014 Report Posted August 18, 2014 If Trudeau feels unsafe, let him pay for his own security. Maybe he can charge more with speaking fees to cover the cost. Shouldn't the government have a responsibility to protect its citizens from crime? Including political leaders? Quote
Derek 2.0 Posted August 18, 2014 Report Posted August 18, 2014 Remember, Trudeau's party is NOT the Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition. The NDP is. Yes, I know that and stated as much in the passage you quoted. Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted August 18, 2014 Report Posted August 18, 2014 Or maybe it is time to rethink the necessity of these leaders to begin with. Why does a country or political party need a leader to function? Same reason you have a captain on a flight deck, a captain on a ship, a commanding officer in a military unit, etc. It's what humans do. Quote
BubberMiley Posted August 18, 2014 Report Posted August 18, 2014 (edited) I decided to take my son to his first year of college about 160 km. from home. I was driving. Is not posting while driving 110 km per hour "abandoning" a thread? Or is my having a real family and work life not OK with you? So are you going to clarify where you got these out-of-left-field assumptions about Justin Trudeau or have you realized you don't know what you're talking about? Edited August 18, 2014 by BubberMiley Quote "I think it's fun watching the waldick get all excited/knickers in a knot over something." -scribblet
overthere Posted August 18, 2014 Report Posted August 18, 2014 I agree that the govt should provide enhanced security for opposition leaders if they request it. Quote Science too hard for you? Try religion!
dre Posted August 18, 2014 Report Posted August 18, 2014 Still, private property has a reason for existing. Oh good lord.... Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
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