bush_cheney2004 Posted December 2, 2014 Report Posted December 2, 2014 (edited) ... I don't know if I'm a big fan of television in courts but in this case, I think it might of been a good idea. It wasn't a court...it was a grand jury proceeding. Same rules do not apply for a good reason. The prosecutor could have brought charges without the GJ. Edited December 2, 2014 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Wilber Posted December 2, 2014 Report Posted December 2, 2014 The easiest thing in the world would've been for the grand jury to indict, they would have just pushed it off to some other group of people. As it is, I'm sure many of them worry for their own safety. We all knew that not indicting would be cause for riots and they made the decision anyway - I applaud that. I'm not being critical of the jury, I just don't think the secrecy it operated under had a positive effect. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
Hal 9000 Posted December 2, 2014 Report Posted December 2, 2014 Kind of a strange coincidence, but Wilson told Brown to get off the yellow lines - presumably for safety reasons, and right on the yellow lines is exactly where he dropped. Not being funny or ironic, it's just a weird coincidence. Quote The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so. - Ronald Reagan I have said that the Western world is just as violent as the Islamic world - Dialamah Europe seems to excel at fooling people to immigrate there from the ME only to chew them up and spit them back. - Eyeball Unfortunately our policies have contributed to retarding and limiting their (Muslim's) society's natural progression towards the same enlightened state we take for granted. - Eyeball
Shady Posted December 2, 2014 Report Posted December 2, 2014 I'm not being critical of the jury, I just don't think the secrecy it operated under had a positive effect. All of the evidence the grand jury was subject to is available to everyone now. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 2, 2014 Report Posted December 2, 2014 All of the evidence the grand jury was subject to is available to everyone now. Yep..which is also unusual. Most times it is sealed. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
On Guard for Thee Posted December 2, 2014 Report Posted December 2, 2014 What is the need for a trial? Did they not have one with this grand jury thing? Something is not quite clear to me. A Grand Jury is nothing like a trial. All behind closed doors and there is no opportunity for any cross examination. In this particular case, Wilson had ample time to concoct his story and then tell it to the GJ without anybody having the chance to challenge it. Quote
Shady Posted December 2, 2014 Report Posted December 2, 2014 A Grand Jury is nothing like a trial. All behind closed doors and there is no opportunity for any cross examination. In this particular case, Wilson had ample time to concoct his story and then tell it to the GJ without anybody having the chance to challenge it. That's incorrect. The evidence supported Wilson's side of things, concocted or not. Grand juries simply take into consideration all of the evidence, and decide if a trial is warranted. Quote
Shady Posted December 2, 2014 Report Posted December 2, 2014 However, we do know for a fact that the "hands up, don't shoot" was completely concocted. As was the assertion Brown was shot in the back. Another concoction of Brown's perp robbery buddy. Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted December 2, 2014 Report Posted December 2, 2014 That's incorrect. The evidence supported Wilson's side of things, concocted or not. Grand juries simply take into consideration all of the evidence, and decide if a trial is warranted. There is nothing incorrect in my post. Quote
Hal 9000 Posted December 2, 2014 Report Posted December 2, 2014 OGfT, you should give these a read http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2014/12/01/witness-10-proves-darren-wilson-had-a-reasonable-belief-he-needed-to-shoot/ http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2014/12/02/why-michael-browns-best-friends-story-is-incredible/ Quote The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so. - Ronald Reagan I have said that the Western world is just as violent as the Islamic world - Dialamah Europe seems to excel at fooling people to immigrate there from the ME only to chew them up and spit them back. - Eyeball Unfortunately our policies have contributed to retarding and limiting their (Muslim's) society's natural progression towards the same enlightened state we take for granted. - Eyeball
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 2, 2014 Report Posted December 2, 2014 This is what you git Mr. Louis Head: ST. LOUIS — Police are investigating Michael Brown's stepfather for angry comments made to a Ferguson crowd after a grand jury decided not to indict the police officer who fatally shot his stepson. St. Louis County Police spokesman Brian Schellman said Tuesday that police want to talk to Louis Head about his comments as part of a broader investigation into arson, vandalism and looting that followed the Nov. 24 grand jury announcement. Twelve commercial buildings were destroyed by fire. Widely-circulated video showed Brown's mother, Lesley McSpadden, on top of a car and breaking down as the announcement blares on a stereo. Head, her husband, comforts her then repeatedly yells angry comments, including "Burn this bitch down!" Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
On Guard for Thee Posted December 2, 2014 Report Posted December 2, 2014 OGfT, you should give these a read http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2014/12/01/witness-10-proves-darren-wilson-had-a-reasonable-belief-he-needed-to-shoot/ http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2014/12/02/why-michael-browns-best-friends-story-is-incredible/ Those are simply opinion pieces. For every one of those I could post 2 that say the exact opposite. What is more important to me is the evidence of how flawed the the GJ process is in general, and the errors that were made in this one. Quote
Shady Posted December 2, 2014 Report Posted December 2, 2014 Those are simply opinion pieces. For every one of those I could post 2 that say the exact opposite. What is more important to me is the evidence of how flawed the the GJ process is in general, and the errors that were made in this one. It's not flawed at all. It worked as it should. You just don't like the outcome, despite the mountain of evidence. That's on you. Quote
Hal 9000 Posted December 2, 2014 Report Posted December 2, 2014 Those are simply opinion pieces. For every one of those I could post 2 that say the exact opposite. What is more important to me is the evidence of how flawed the the GJ process is in general, and the errors that were made in this one. Read it again and leave out the "opinion". OK, now...read the actual quoted testimonies from "witness 10" and Johnson and see what you get. While you're at it, there are many links that will direct you to actual evidence and photos...but you don't want to see that, do you? Quote The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so. - Ronald Reagan I have said that the Western world is just as violent as the Islamic world - Dialamah Europe seems to excel at fooling people to immigrate there from the ME only to chew them up and spit them back. - Eyeball Unfortunately our policies have contributed to retarding and limiting their (Muslim's) society's natural progression towards the same enlightened state we take for granted. - Eyeball
On Guard for Thee Posted December 2, 2014 Report Posted December 2, 2014 It's not flawed at all. It worked as it should. You just don't like the outcome, despite the mountain of evidence. That's on you. It was flawed in many ways. One of the most egregious is that the assistant prosecutor instructed the jury to judge the case based on a statute discussing legal police use of force that had been deemed as unconstitutional many years ago. Based on that one particular flaw the circuit court judge could order a new grand jury or she could indict Wilson herself. Quote
Hal 9000 Posted December 2, 2014 Report Posted December 2, 2014 The only thing egregious is the fact that it even to a grand jury. I'm sure that was only done to protect his own skin. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see Dorian Johnson and the others try to lie their way through a trial, I just don't see the need. Quote The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so. - Ronald Reagan I have said that the Western world is just as violent as the Islamic world - Dialamah Europe seems to excel at fooling people to immigrate there from the ME only to chew them up and spit them back. - Eyeball Unfortunately our policies have contributed to retarding and limiting their (Muslim's) society's natural progression towards the same enlightened state we take for granted. - Eyeball
Shady Posted December 2, 2014 Report Posted December 2, 2014 It was flawed in many ways. One of the most egregious is that the assistant prosecutor instructed the jury to judge the case based on a statute discussing legal police use of force that had been deemed as unconstitutional many years ago. Based on that one particular flaw the circuit court judge could order a new grand jury or she could indict Wilson herself. Complete nonsense. Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted December 2, 2014 Report Posted December 2, 2014 The only thing egregious is the fact that it even to a grand jury. I'm sure that was only done to protect his own skin. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see Dorian Johnson and the others try to lie their way through a trial, I just don't see the need. I have no idea what you are trying to say here, but apparently you didn't read very well. What is egregious is using a law, long since deemed unconstitutional, to instruct a jury. On that basis the circuit court judge could reconvene the GJ or simply indict him herself. the legal term for that authority, if you're interested is sua sponte. Quote
Argus Posted December 2, 2014 Report Posted December 2, 2014 This whole thread illustrates what is wrong with this grand jury system, not that it might have reached the wrong conclusion but that it wasn't open and transparent. The result, 131 pages of conjecture, much of it based on individual bias. It WAS open and transparent. And I absolutely guarantee you that if the prosecution had failed to supply even a single witness who said he say Wilson stomp up and down on Brown's head that would be portrayed as a conspiracy. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
On Guard for Thee Posted December 2, 2014 Report Posted December 2, 2014 It WAS open and transparent. And I absolutely guarantee you that if the prosecution had failed to supply even a single witness who said he say Wilson stomp up and down on Brown's head that would be portrayed as a conspiracy. By nature of a GJ they are neither open or transparent. Quote
Argus Posted December 3, 2014 Report Posted December 3, 2014 By nature of a GJ they are neither open or transparent. Yes, and they don't release any information on what happened -- except they did, giving complete transcripts and all the evidence. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
On Guard for Thee Posted December 3, 2014 Report Posted December 3, 2014 Yes, and they don't release any information on what happened -- except they did, giving complete transcripts and all the evidence. And the release of those transcripts is why they may find themselves forced to do it all again. Quote
Argus Posted December 3, 2014 Report Posted December 3, 2014 And the release of those transcripts is why they may find themselves forced to do it all again. To what end? There is ZERO chance Wilson will be convicted of anything whatsoever. He performed a public service by seeing to it there was one less thug on the streets. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
On Guard for Thee Posted December 3, 2014 Report Posted December 3, 2014 To what end? There is ZERO chance Wilson will be convicted of anything whatsoever. He performed a public service by seeing to it there was one less thug on the streets. There is much more than zero chance. That's one reason various investigations are still under way. Quote
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