On Guard for Thee Posted August 18, 2014 Report Posted August 18, 2014 Good luck proving that. Exactly. And even if he did reach for it he obviously didn't get it. I suppose if they lifted a finger print from Brown off teh gun it might go somewhere. Quote
Hal 9000 Posted August 18, 2014 Report Posted August 18, 2014 Good luck proving that. If ballistics can show a bullet hole in the car, any residue on Brown or any DNA (scratch marks, hand bruising etc.) on Wilson, I wouldn't have to stretch my imagination too much to believe there was a struggle for the gun. Quote The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so. - Ronald Reagan I have said that the Western world is just as violent as the Islamic world - Dialamah Europe seems to excel at fooling people to immigrate there from the ME only to chew them up and spit them back. - Eyeball Unfortunately our policies have contributed to retarding and limiting their (Muslim's) society's natural progression towards the same enlightened state we take for granted. - Eyeball
Smallc Posted August 18, 2014 Report Posted August 18, 2014 Exactly. And even if he did reach for it he obviously didn't get it. I suppose if they lifted a finger print from Brown off teh gun it might go somewhere. If he did reach for it, his getting it is irrelevant. Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted August 18, 2014 Report Posted August 18, 2014 If he did reach for it, his getting it is irrelevant. As Boges already pointed out, pretty hard to prove. Quote
scribblet Posted August 18, 2014 Report Posted August 18, 2014 I don`t think they are going to be able prove anything conclusively, usually by now someone comes forward with a video but here we don`t have one of the actual event. We have some eye witness who said he shot in the back execution style which we now know is incorrect. We have very few facts and may never know other than the cop's testimony. I'm inclined to believe that even if the cop was justified they will throw him under the bus, can you imagine the riots if he was found to be justified.... I'm not saying he was because I don't know and neither does anyone else at this point. I just found out that cigars are used for rolling blunts. Quote Hey Ho - Ontario Liberals Have to Go - Fight Wynne - save our province
bush_cheney2004 Posted August 18, 2014 Report Posted August 18, 2014 ....I just found out that cigars are used for rolling blunts. Yep...soon to be legal in Canada ! Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
jbg Posted August 18, 2014 Report Posted August 18, 2014 (edited) Do you remember this incident? No?Especially not when I never heard of it. What a surprise. Edited August 18, 2014 by jbg Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
jbg Posted August 18, 2014 Report Posted August 18, 2014 If Brown at any time reached for a cop's gun, the all bets are off and that cop has to know his life is in danger.I generally lean towards favoring the cops, but six shots is an awful lot. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
Argus Posted August 18, 2014 Report Posted August 18, 2014 What if he missed a few times? It's clear he was shooting to kill. Every time cops shoot, they shoot to kill. Cops are bad shots. That's why every single department trains them to shoot for the center of the torso. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted August 18, 2014 Report Posted August 18, 2014 If he missed him a few times it wouldn't necessarily be conclusive of anything. However, various reports say the cop started firing while the guy was running away. Logically you would more likely miss a man fleeing away from you than one standing still facing you. If he was firing as teh guy was running away, I'd say the cop has a problem. So all the buillets fired when the guy was moving away missed? Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
On Guard for Thee Posted August 18, 2014 Report Posted August 18, 2014 So all the buillets fired when the guy was moving away missed? Well obviously nobody seems to know for sure. But the location of the arm wounds do don conclude they couldn't have come from behind. Quote
Argus Posted August 18, 2014 Report Posted August 18, 2014 He should be given the death penalty if that's the case. Not a chance. And police in some states, including this one, have the authority to shoot at someone running away if they believe them to be a danger or menace. And since there was already a violent confrontation between the two at the car, the cop could be presumed to believe that. And does this sound familiar? According to court documents, at around 5:30 a.m., Anthony Griffin, a 19-year-old black man, jumped a cab but was arrested by police about an hour later. Griffin, after lying about his identity because of an outstanding warrant against him, was placed in the back seat of a police cruiser and then taken to a police station. Upon arriving in the station parking lot, he bolted, and only stopped when Constable Allan Gosset yelled, while aiming his .38 police revolver, “Stop or I’ll shoot!” after twice yelling at Griffin to halt. Griffin stopped and was turning around when he was shot in the head. He was pronounced dead at 11:45 a.m. at the Jewish General. Gosset was charged with criminal negligence but, in 1993, was acquitted on appeal. Racism was dismissed as a factor in Griffin’s death. Or how about this one? Marcellus François What happened: Shot in the head with a SWAT-team assault rifle in a car at the corner of St. Antoine and McGill Sts. in Old Montreal; he'd been mistaken for a different young black man wanted for an attempted murder on Park Ave. two days before. The result: After an SQ investigation, SWAT team leader Michel Tremblay is exonerated. In 1994, two other officers, Pablo Palacios and one named Barbeau, are given short suspensions for misconduct. In 1997, the Montreal Urban Community pays $218,269 to the François family to settle their lawsuit. How about these ones? Trevor Kelly What happened: Shot in the back near his apartment on Mountain Sights Ave. after police tried to arrest him for threatening them; police said he brandished a potato knife. The result: After an SQ investigation, Station 31 officers Richard Massé and Sylvain Benoît are exonerated. Martin Omar Suazo What happened: Shot in the head while kneeling to be handcuffed on St. Laurent Blvd. Suazo had been picked up on suspicion of shoplifting a pair of jeans. The officer said his gun went off by accident. The result: A police ethics commission investigation finds Station 33 officer Michel Garneau guilty of improper use of a firearm and suspends him for 45 days. A coroner concludes the death was accidental. Suazo's mother gets an out-of-court settlement of $3,000. Lt. Pablo Palacios (also involved in the Marcellus François affair in 1991) is accused of covering up evidence, but is exonerated in 2004. All from Montreal... Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
guyser Posted August 18, 2014 Report Posted August 18, 2014 Not a chance. And police in some states, including this one, have the authority to shoot at someone running away if they believe them to be a danger or menace.No they don't. The person has to impose an immediate danger,or be shooting at the cop(s) The Police cannot legally shoot someone running away. That they are not convicted of that is an entirely different story. And since there was already a violent confrontation between the two at the car, the cop could be presumed to believe that.At the cab? The kid was in handcuffs and had been patted down. What risk did he pose, apart from being able to outrun a cop? Quote
Argus Posted August 19, 2014 Report Posted August 19, 2014 No they don't. The person has to impose an immediate danger,or be shooting at the cop(s) Constitutionally, "police officers are allowed to shoot under two circumstances," says Klinger. The first circumstance is "to protect their life or the life of another innocent party" — what departments call the "defense-of-life" standard. The second circumstance is to prevent a suspect from escaping, but only if the officer has probable cause to think the suspect's committed a serious violent felony. According to the Ferguson police chief the officer was attacked by Brown, struck a number of times, and his face was swollen. I imagine that would constitute a violent felony. http://www.vox.com/2014/8/13/5994305/michael-brown-case-investigation-legal-police-kill-force-murder Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Shady Posted August 19, 2014 Report Posted August 19, 2014 A cop without a tazer? MRAPS and 50 Cals, but no tazer? You know exactly what equipment this particular officer had on his person? How so? Quote
dre Posted August 19, 2014 Report Posted August 19, 2014 Any truthful eyewitness account or video can show what transpired. But guilt or culpability is based on intent. Did the officer consider his life to be in danger? If he did and followed procedures to deal with such a situation then he was doing his job. If he did not then it is obvious that the shooting was not warranted and some kind of charge will result. But - how is the intention of the officer going to be evaluated? Remember that if there is any doubt, then the accused is considered innocent. For this reason, almost all police shootings end up with dismissal of any charges against the officer. The intention doesnt necessarily have to be considered. You can be charged with second degree murder in the absense of intent. I think the reason that most police officers get off is mostly institutional, and the result of carefull message control. Before a cop or any other cops give any kind of statement on a shooting they wait to see what the eye witness accounts are, and spend days with an attorney. If you or me shot a guy six times with a handgun because he was "charging" us, our odds would not be so good. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
On Guard for Thee Posted August 19, 2014 Report Posted August 19, 2014 Not a chance. And police in some states, including this one, have the authority to shoot at someone running away if they believe them to be a danger or menace. And since there was already a violent confrontation between the two at the car, the cop could be presumed to believe that. And does this sound familiar? According to court documents, at around 5:30 a.m., Anthony Griffin, a 19-year-old black man, jumped a cab but was arrested by police about an hour later. Griffin, after lying about his identity because of an outstanding warrant against him, was placed in the back seat of a police cruiser and then taken to a police station. Upon arriving in the station parking lot, he bolted, and only stopped when Constable Allan Gosset yelled, while aiming his .38 police revolver, “Stop or I’ll shoot!” after twice yelling at Griffin to halt. Griffin stopped and was turning around when he was shot in the head. He was pronounced dead at 11:45 a.m. at the Jewish General. Gosset was charged with criminal negligence but, in 1993, was acquitted on appeal. Racism was dismissed as a factor in Griffin’s death. Or how about this one? Marcellus François What happened: Shot in the head with a SWAT-team assault rifle in a car at the corner of St. Antoine and McGill Sts. in Old Montreal; he'd been mistaken for a different young black man wanted for an attempted murder on Park Ave. two days before. The result: After an SQ investigation, SWAT team leader Michel Tremblay is exonerated. In 1994, two other officers, Pablo Palacios and one named Barbeau, are given short suspensions for misconduct. In 1997, the Montreal Urban Community pays $218,269 to the François family to settle their lawsuit. How about these ones? Trevor Kelly What happened: Shot in the back near his apartment on Mountain Sights Ave. after police tried to arrest him for threatening them; police said he brandished a potato knife. The result: After an SQ investigation, Station 31 officers Richard Massé and Sylvain Benoît are exonerated. Martin Omar Suazo What happened: Shot in the head while kneeling to be handcuffed on St. Laurent Blvd. Suazo had been picked up on suspicion of shoplifting a pair of jeans. The officer said his gun went off by accident. The result: A police ethics commission investigation finds Station 33 officer Michel Garneau guilty of improper use of a firearm and suspends him for 45 days. A coroner concludes the death was accidental. Suazo's mother gets an out-of-court settlement of $3,000. Lt. Pablo Palacios (also involved in the Marcellus François affair in 1991) is accused of covering up evidence, but is exonerated in 2004. All from Montreal... Nope. You can only shoot at someone running away if they are a known felon. If they are running toward you you need to prove there was a valid threat towards you or others. Quote
WestCoastRunner Posted August 19, 2014 Report Posted August 19, 2014 If Brown was shot 6 times and the last two were to the head, that means he was charging the officer with 4 bullet wounds. How could that possibly be? He was probably on his way down to the ground, overcome with his injuries when his head was hit with 2 more bullets (maybe the cop felt he should put him out of his misery, like a wounded animal). Quote I love to see a young girl go out and grab the world by the lapels. Life's a bitch. You've got to go out and kick ass. - Maya Angelou
dre Posted August 19, 2014 Report Posted August 19, 2014 Every time cops shoot, they shoot to kill. Cops are bad shots. That's why every single department trains them to shoot for the center of the torso. No thats not correct. That area... the center of mass is also known as the "boiler room". Theres a cluster of vital organs there (lungs, heart, kidneys, etc), plus a nice vertical cross section of the spine. Whether you are a good OR a bad shot it gives you the best chance of stopping the animal. Same place I aim for on a deer or elk, and Im a pretty damn good shot. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
Shady Posted August 19, 2014 Report Posted August 19, 2014 If Brown was shot 6 times and the last two were to the head, that means he was charging the officer with 4 bullet wounds. How could that possibly be? All the rounds were likely discharged within a few seconds. Quote
Shady Posted August 19, 2014 Report Posted August 19, 2014 . Same place I aim for on a deer or elk, and Im a pretty damn good shot. I don't doubt that you're a good shot. As long as the deer or elk are standing completely still. Quote
dre Posted August 19, 2014 Report Posted August 19, 2014 If Brown was shot 6 times and the last two were to the head, that means he was charging the officer with 4 bullet wounds. How could that possibly be? He was probably on his way down to the ground, overcome with his injuries when his head was hit with 2 more bullets (maybe the cop felt he should put him out of his misery, like a wounded animal). If the suspect in this case faces charges or a conviction, that will be the issue.... just like it was with Yatim. The more bullets you pump into someone the less believable is that you are defending yourself against a deadly threat. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
WestCoastRunner Posted August 19, 2014 Report Posted August 19, 2014 All the rounds were likely discharged within a few seconds. And how do you know that? Quote I love to see a young girl go out and grab the world by the lapels. Life's a bitch. You've got to go out and kick ass. - Maya Angelou
On Guard for Thee Posted August 19, 2014 Report Posted August 19, 2014 If Brown was shot 6 times and the last two were to the head, that means he was charging the officer with 4 bullet wounds. How could that possibly be? He was probably on his way down to the ground, overcome with his injuries when his head was hit with 2 more bullets (maybe the cop felt he should put him out of his misery, like a wounded animal). I listened today to the entire interview/press conference with the pathologist who did the family sponsored autopsy and he pretty much poo pooed the "raging bull" idea for the reasons you speak of. Of course he has to include the disclaimer that not being there he can't be completely sure. Quote
WestCoastRunner Posted August 19, 2014 Report Posted August 19, 2014 I listened today to the entire interview/press conference with the pathologist who did the family sponsored autopsy and he pretty much poo pooed the "raging bull" idea for the reasons you speak of. Of course he has to include the disclaimer that not being there he can't be completely sure. And it's still a police state tonight. Quite ridiculous. Quote I love to see a young girl go out and grab the world by the lapels. Life's a bitch. You've got to go out and kick ass. - Maya Angelou
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