PIK Posted May 20, 2015 Report Posted May 20, 2015 Lets talk chretien, the man that created this whole mess, by using his power to get his father released. Quote Toronto, like a roach motel in the middle of a pretty living room.
Je suis Omar Posted May 20, 2015 Report Posted May 20, 2015 This topic is about the legal implications of a certain case, not breathless, holus bolus accusations of the US. The world's leader in terrorism, by a gigantic margin, over all terrorists worldwide combined, attempts to pervert justice with this mockery of a trial, and you think it shouldn't be discussed. It's Al Capone conducting a trial for a neighbourhood petty thief. Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted May 20, 2015 Report Posted May 20, 2015 The world's leader in terrorism, by a gigantic margin, over all terrorists worldwide combined, attempts to pervert justice with this mockery of a trial, and you think it shouldn't be discussed. It's Al Capone conducting a trial for a neighbourhood petty thief. And the flawed trial is why he stands a good chance of winning on appeal, and why Canadian courts granted him bail. Not anything to do with Capone Im afraid. Quote
dre Posted May 20, 2015 Report Posted May 20, 2015 (edited) If you were 15 and your parents told you to throw a grenade at someone and build explosives to kill people, would you do it? I wouldn't. Actually throwing a grenade at members of a hostile foreign army that are trying to force their way into your home, doesnt seem all that unreasonable to me. My guess is that another country invade the US, and sacked the government, then started doing armed "knock and announce" raids of American residences, that they would face more than just the odd grenade. Well I hope you agree he deserved some kind of punishment. Kids in Canada get punished by the law for much less than what Khadr did. Do they? If armed foreigners that invaded Canada tried to storm your home at gunpoint, Im not even sure it would be a crime AT ALL to try to kill them. Maybe some minor weapons charges for posession of the grenade and explosives but beyond that, I think you are allowed to kill armed intruders unless its the police. The point is... this was a skirmish between armed forces in a war zone. You cant compare it to crimes commited by your average Canadian kid. Edited May 20, 2015 by dre Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
Je suis Omar Posted May 20, 2015 Report Posted May 20, 2015 (edited) Actually throwing a grenade at members of a hostile foreign army that are trying to force their way into your home, doesnt seem all that unreasonable to me. My guess is that another country invade the US, and sacked the government, then started doing armed "knock and announce" raids of American residences, that they would face more than just the odd grenade. e. And to boot, a hostile foreign army that was committing the ultimate war crime under international law, the illegal invasion of a sovereign nation. That same hostile foreign army, whose leaders had previously set up the Taliban as their chosen government, who the Americans were very comfortable with until the Taliban made decisions to not support American business as enthusiastically as the USA wanted. Notice the close similarity to other USA installed right wing brutal dictatorships? Edited May 20, 2015 by Je suis Omar Quote
Je suis Omar Posted May 20, 2015 Report Posted May 20, 2015 And the flawed trial is why he stands a good chance of winning on appeal, and why Canadian courts granted him bail. Not anything to do with Capone Im afraid. Precisely, which is why I repeatedly raise the highly pertinent, completely factual issue that everyone else is too terrified to mention, the USA is the leading terrorist nation/group in the world. And yes, it is perfectly apt to compare this criminal nation to Al Capone because they have acted like gangsters from the outset. If anything, I have, with my comparison, unduly slighted Al Capone. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted May 20, 2015 Report Posted May 20, 2015 ...Notice the close similarity to other USA installed right wing brutal dictatorships? Why yes...it is very similar to Canadian support and complicity in "brutal dictatorships" for Indonesia/East Timor, Haiti, Myanmar (Burma), Libya, and several others. Mining the world for resources is never done. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
bush_cheney2004 Posted May 20, 2015 Report Posted May 20, 2015 Precisely, which is why I repeatedly raise the highly pertinent, completely factual issue that everyone else is too terrified to mention, the USA is the leading terrorist nation/group in the world. Who is too terrified ? Leading in the entire galaxy ! Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
On Guard for Thee Posted May 20, 2015 Report Posted May 20, 2015 Precisely, which is why I repeatedly raise the highly pertinent, completely factual issue that everyone else is too terrified to mention, the USA is the leading terrorist nation/group in the world. And yes, it is perfectly apt to compare this criminal nation to Al Capone because they have acted like gangsters from the outset. If anything, I have, with my comparison, unduly slighted Al Capone. I doubt you will see any lawyers trying to flog such ideas in Khadrs appeal case. They have to deal with the pertinent facts. Quote
eyeball Posted May 20, 2015 Report Posted May 20, 2015 (edited) Good thought - and pretty well describes the frustrating Jihadist, hate-the-West mentality....the old teach the young and it goes from generation to generation. Look at schools in Gaza where they literally teach kids to hate Jews. As I've said before - it's not all about Khadr - it's about terrorism. Terrorism is a different crime - a crime against innocents. It also describes the frustrating Western, hate-the Muslims-mentality....it works both ways. Sentiments and beliefs that have been promulgated in Western societies especially since 9/11 but even long before have had a radicalizing impact on us as evidenced by our actions - like unleashing militarized dictatorships on civilian populations and even bombing them ourselves in many cases - a crime against innocents that's no less terrible or different in any real sense of the word. The sentences - and the need to serve them to their fullest - reflects society's repugnance with the scourge that is threatening the very soul of humanity. Sure - Khadr may be a nice guy - or not... I think our beating up on Omar Khadr is just a reflection of our country's corroded divided psyche and is more an act of self-loathing than anything. ..you can make as many apologies for him as you want... Things also work both ways in this weird tension that exists between understanding and apologizing. Take the oft-stated apology that the awful things we did in the ME region to thwart our old enemies the communists was necessary and righteous vs the understanding that propping up dictatorships was dishonourable, self-defeating and has only made things worse. The resolution of this conflict now seems bound up in some sort of cathartic disposition of Omar Khadr. As I noted the SCC is clearly pushing in a direction that seems destined to put people with your sentiments in a bind. Do you swerve away from a collision of values or maintain the course? ...but the message must be clear - Western society will apply the full extent of the law against terrorism. Fine, just take a hard look in the mirror first then apply it legally and more evenly. Edited May 20, 2015 by eyeball Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
Je suis Omar Posted May 20, 2015 Report Posted May 20, 2015 I doubt you will see any lawyers trying to flog such ideas in Khadrs appeal case. They have to deal with the pertinent facts. How many academics, lawyers, politicians, ... do you see describing the true nature of the USA? It's not something that is at all well received. As you know full well, some people will go to extraordinary lengths to try to curtail discussion of USA terrorism and war crimes. Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted May 20, 2015 Report Posted May 20, 2015 How many academics, lawyers, politicians, ... do you see describing the true nature of the USA? It's not something that is at all well received. As you know full well, some people will go to extraordinary lengths to try to curtail discussion of USA terrorism and war crimes. Then why not start a thread for such discussion....where it belongs. Quote
Je suis Omar Posted May 20, 2015 Report Posted May 20, 2015 Then why not start a thread for such discussion....where it belongs. Because it is highly pertinent and completely germane to this topic. How is it that you have missed that terrorists and war criminals, and those that offer material support to them, are hardly the ones to be trusted in adjudicating matters of this nature? Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted May 20, 2015 Report Posted May 20, 2015 Because it is highly pertinent and completely germane to this topic. How is it that you have missed that terrorists and war criminals, and those that offer material support to them, are hardly the ones to be trusted in adjudicating matters of this nature? You would be really funny in an actual court. Quote
drummindiver Posted May 21, 2015 Report Posted May 21, 2015 (edited) Actually throwing a grenade at members of a hostile foreign army that are trying to force their way into your home, doesnt seem all that unreasonable to me. My guess is that another country invade the US, and sacked the government, then started doing armed "knock and announce" raids of American residences, that they would face more than just the odd grenade. Do they? If armed foreigners that invaded Canada tried to storm your home at gunpoint, Im not even sure it would be a crime AT ALL to try to kill them. Maybe some minor weapons charges for posession of the grenade and explosives but beyond that, I think you are allowed to kill armed intruders unless its the police. The point is... this was a skirmish between armed forces in a war zone. You cant compare it to crimes commited by your average Canadian kid. A hostile foreign army? To whom? Kadhr? As has been documented on this site ad nauseam (and by that, I mean it is sickening because it's true) Kadhr is a CANADIAN. The forces to whom he attacked were, to him, NOT a HOSTILE FOREIGN ARMY (ok, to terrorist Islam extremists they were..but he isn't one of those, right?) This fact is what actually makes him a TERRORIST. Please, stop saying he was "defending his home" from "hostile foreign army". Edited May 21, 2015 by drummindiver Quote
dre Posted May 21, 2015 Report Posted May 21, 2015 A hostile foreign army? To whom? Kadhr? As has been documented on this site ad nauseam (and by that, I mean it is sickening because it's true) Kadhr is a CANADIAN. The forces to whom he attacked were, to him, NOT a HOSTILE FOREIGN ARMY (ok, to terrorist Islam extremists they were..but he isn't one of those, right?) This fact is what actually makes him a TERRORIST. Please, stop saying he was "defending his home" from "hostile foreign army". His father made the choice for him to move to Afghanistan and resist the invasion. Probably not a smart choice but meh... thats what happened. And he threw a grenade at members of a hostile foreign invasion force that were trying to force themselves into a residence at gun point. Hundreds of thousands of innocent people have been killed in the Fake Global War On Terror. I dont give a rats ass about this one guy. If safety is your primary concern then invading someone elses country and storming residences at gun point probably isnt a great career choice. Boo hoo hoo. Worlds smallest violin. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
Je suis Omar Posted May 21, 2015 Report Posted May 21, 2015 A hostile foreign army? To whom? Kadhr? As has been documented on this site ad nauseam (and by that, I mean it is sickening because it's true) Kadhr is a CANADIAN. The forces to whom he attacked were, to him, NOT a HOSTILE FOREIGN ARMY (ok, to terrorist Islam extremists they were..but he isn't one of those, right?) This fact is what actually makes him a TERRORIST. Please, stop saying he was "defending his home" from "hostile foreign army". Was Dillon Hillier "defending his home" from "hostile foreign army" when he went, sans uniform, to Iraq? Quote
Je suis Omar Posted May 21, 2015 Report Posted May 21, 2015 (edited) His father made the choice for him to move to Afghanistan and resist the invasion. . Now I'm not blaming you, Dre, but we keep on hearing these stories repeated with no proof. Edited May 21, 2015 by Je suis Omar Quote
eyeball Posted May 21, 2015 Report Posted May 21, 2015 I mean it is sickening because it's true) Kadhr is a CANADIAN. The forces to whom he attacked were, to him, NOT a HOSTILE FOREIGN ARMY (ok, to terrorist Islam extremists they were..but he isn't one of those, right?) This fact is what actually makes him a TERRORIST.None of which detracts from the overarching fact that he was a kid.This is the only fact that matters and it's disgusting how it's always ignored. What you people need to do is get the SCC to ignore that fact. The only question is how? Good luck with that. Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
dre Posted May 21, 2015 Report Posted May 21, 2015 Now I'm not blaming you, Dre, but we keep on hearing these stories repeated with no proof. I guess I dont have proof but it seems self evident to me that a 13/14 yearold did not plan, or fund a trip to a country on the other side of the world to resist an occupation. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
Je suis Omar Posted May 21, 2015 Report Posted May 21, 2015 I guess I dont have proof but it seems self evident to me that a 13/14 yearold did not plan, or fund a trip to a country on the other side of the world to resist an occupation. From my reading, his father was running some charities aimed at helping people in that area. We know from the historical record that the USA wasn't doing that. Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted May 21, 2015 Report Posted May 21, 2015 I guess I dont have proof but it seems self evident to me that a 13/14 yearold did not plan, or fund a trip to a country on the other side of the world to resist an occupation. And of course your idea would only be logical, (something which seems to be missing from some corners). The father did move the family to Jalalabad in in 1996 and by the time 2002 rolled around they were in Waziristan. The father's connection with Al Qaeda would most certainly have been influential, if again, one wants to indulge in pretty basic logic. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted May 21, 2015 Report Posted May 21, 2015 From my reading, his father was running some charities aimed at helping people in that area. We know from the historical record that the USA wasn't doing that. Actually, the USA was the largest contributor of humanitarian aid to Afghanistan before 9/11, including NGOs. Far more than Canada. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Je suis Omar Posted May 21, 2015 Report Posted May 21, 2015 And of course your idea would only be logical, (something which seems to be missing from some corners). The father did move the family to Jalalabad in in 1996 and by the time 2002 rolled around they were in Waziristan. The father's connection with Al Qaeda would most certainly have been influential, if again, one wants to indulge in pretty basic logic. That's a dandy example of illogic, not to mention stilted language that is unbecoming of an editor who takes money for his "services". Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted May 21, 2015 Report Posted May 21, 2015 That's a dandy example of illogic, not to mention stilted language that is unbecoming of an editor who takes money for his "services". Just beer money, but it does add up. Quote
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