marcus Posted July 13, 2014 Report Posted July 13, 2014 Dream on. Israel's hi-tech industry is hardly "losing out." And South Africa was different. The white population was a distinct minority. Unless Israel is dumb enough to allow it to be flooded with non-Jewish immigrants that paradigm won't happen. This is reality jbg: A recent Israeli Finance Ministry study showed that the phenomenon of boycotts is the largest threat to Israel's economy with a possibility of a 20 percent drop in exports; inflation and thousands of job layoffs should Europe seriously commit to boycott Israeli companies. Link Quote "What do you think of Western civilization?" Gandhi was asked. "I think it would be a good idea," he said.
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 13, 2014 Report Posted July 13, 2014 Such displays have long been the standard for Palestinians celebrating the deaths of Israelis at the hands of terrorists and suicide bombers. The double standard is obvious...and laughable. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
jacee Posted July 13, 2014 Report Posted July 13, 2014 It doesn't reflect well on either, but I suppose such has been the way of war forever. Quote
jbg Posted July 13, 2014 Report Posted July 13, 2014 The display by some Israeli politicians and many Israelis has been quite disturbing in the recent month. 5 days into Israel's disproportionate attack on Gazans has resulted in over 120 people dead with more than 3/4 of them civilians.I don't know whwere to start with this post but I'll try. When the Arabs in Gaza hide military assets in civilian locations are they immune from attack by Israel? That seems to be your argument here. The Arabs running Gaza have an easy alternative; stop the madness themselves. They can stop the rocketings, the kidnappings, the suicide bombings. They elect to keep fighting Israel. Having thus elected the Israels have no choice but to fight back. These attacks are being cheered, instead of condemned. Where is the moral standard and moral superiority we are used to hearing about? Here are some videos of a lynch mob, yelling "Death to Arabs". Report after report have come out where Palestinians have been attacked. What do you expect when the Arabs have resorted to random attacks that could more or less nail anyone, anytime, anywhere in Israel. The cheering is for the end of a supine, death-inviting posture. That is what happens in a war. The Gazans have chosen not to stop their attacks. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
jacee Posted July 13, 2014 Report Posted July 13, 2014 (edited) I don't know whwere to start with this post but I'll try. When the Arabs in Gaza hide military assets in civilian locations are they immune from attack by Israel? That seems to be your argument here. The Arabs running Gaza have an easy alternative; stop the madness themselves. They can stop the rocketings, the kidnappings, the suicide bombings. They elect to keep fighting Israel. Having thus elected the Israels have no choice but to fight back. What do you expect when the Arabs have resorted to random attacks that could more or less nail anyone, anytime, anywhere in Israel. The cheering is for the end of a supine, death-inviting posture. That is what happens in a war. The Gazans have chosen not to stop their attacks. Isael has chosen not to withdraw from illegally occupied territory, not to participate in a two state solution and move on with life ... And on it goes ... Edited July 13, 2014 by jacee Quote
cybercoma Posted July 13, 2014 Report Posted July 13, 2014 Isael has chosen not to withdraw from illegally occupied territory, not to participate in a two state solution and move on with life ... And on it goes ... Does Israel have a right to defend its citizenry from rocket attacks? Quote
jacee Posted July 13, 2014 Report Posted July 13, 2014 Does Israel have a right to defend its citizenry from rocket attacks? Ya ... withdraw from occupied territory, live within its legal boundaries, agree to a two state solution ... and move on. Israel does not have a right to respond disproportionately. . Quote
cybercoma Posted July 13, 2014 Report Posted July 13, 2014 Ya ... withdraw from occupied territory, live within its legal boundaries, agree to a two state solution ... and move on. Israel does not have a right to respond disproportionately. That doesn't defend them from rocket attacks. Hamas has launched rockets into civilian areas. Does Israel have a right to defend itself against military aggression that targets their civilians? Withdrawing from occupied territory, etc. is not a defence to a military offensive launched against them. Quote
jacee Posted July 13, 2014 Report Posted July 13, 2014 That doesn't defend them from rocket attacks. Hamas has launched rockets into civilian areas. Does Israel have a right to defend itself against military aggression that targets their civilians? Withdrawing from occupied territory, etc. is not a defence to a military offensive launched against them.Yes it is.If Israel respected borders and autonomy, perhaps respect will be returned. What a novel concept. Israel has never tried the 'respect' approach, just obstinacy, force and aggression. . Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 13, 2014 Report Posted July 13, 2014 Yes it is. If Israel respected borders and autonomy, perhaps respect will be returned. No, as "perhaps" is not good enough in such matters. Canada wouldn't accept such rocket attacks, and neither should Israel. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
jacee Posted July 13, 2014 Report Posted July 13, 2014 No, as "perhaps" is not good enough in such matters. Canada wouldn't accept such rocket attacks, and neither should Israel. Canada doesn't aggressively build settlements outside its territory. Israel creates its own problems. . Quote
Big Guy Posted July 13, 2014 Report Posted July 13, 2014 The "Iron Dome" that the Americans have built for Israel appears to be very effective. US reports indicate that about 95% of the incoming missiles are being shot down. This is not a war, it is a slaughter. One side has about 200 dead and thousands wounded - mostly women and children. The other side has 2 wounded. The vast majority of them are civilians having nothing to do with the conflict. The Palestinians are winning the PR war. No one is even trying to spin the Israeli reaction as a "measured response" like our PM tried a few years ago. This idea of "celebrating" the deaths of the other side by both sides is just rhetoric aimed at consolidating the antagonism in both camps. My disappointment is that to rationalize an "uneven" and deadly slaughter, one has to dehumanize the target. The Palestinians have to be seen as inferior to the Israelis so the losses can be excused. The dehumanization of any group opens up the opportunity for ethnic cleansing. This is not a solution to anything. Apparently this morning, Israeli troops landed on Gaza beaches and took out some rocket launchers. With the build up of troops and tanks along the border it looks like an invasion is the next step. We have seen this picture before. Why should it end any differently this time? Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
Shady Posted July 13, 2014 Report Posted July 13, 2014 Canada doesn't aggressively build settlements outside its territory. Israel creates its own problems. . Hamas refuses to accept the right of Israel to exist, which has nothing to do with settlement building. They're against the concept of an Israel. Your suggestions would do nothing to solve that problem. Quote
jacee Posted July 13, 2014 Report Posted July 13, 2014 (edited) Hamas refuses to accept the right of Israel to exist, which has nothing to do with settlement building. They're against the concept of an Israel. Your suggestions would do nothing to solve that problem.How do you know that when Israel has never tried living within its legal borders?You don't. Palestinians proposed two states, went to the UN for recognition. Israel refused. Blows your theory. . Edited July 13, 2014 by jacee Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 13, 2014 Report Posted July 13, 2014 (edited) Canada doesn't aggressively build settlements outside its territory. . Canada conquered its "PalestIndians" a long time ago....rocket attacks from Caledonia begin today !! Edited July 13, 2014 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
jacee Posted July 13, 2014 Report Posted July 13, 2014 Canada conquered its "PalestIndians" a long time ago....rocket attacks from Caledonia begin today !! derail . Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 13, 2014 Report Posted July 13, 2014 derail . Of course..."occupations" only apply to Israel. Tell you what....to stay on topic, let's just call the Palestinian grievances "unsettled land claims" !! Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
cybercoma Posted July 13, 2014 Report Posted July 13, 2014 Yes it is. If Israel respected borders and autonomy, perhaps respect will be returned. What a novel concept. Israel has never tried the 'respect' approach, just obstinacy, force and aggression. . Perhaps? Rockets are being fired at civilians right now. Do you think it's enough to rely on "perhaps" thinking? Forget that it's Israel-Palestine for a second. If one nation attacks another with rockets, does the nation that's being attacked have the right to use force to defend itself or not? Quote
Shady Posted July 13, 2014 Report Posted July 13, 2014 How do you know that when Israel has never tried living within its legal borders? You don't. Palestinians proposed two states, went to the UN for recognition. Israel refused. Blows your theory. . They actually have tried living within it's legal borders. And that resulted in 7 arab armies attacking it at the same time. Perhaps you're unaware of recent history? Regardless, proposing a 2 state solutions is easy, it's been done multiple times by both sides. The devil is in the details of those proposals. So it doesn't blow any theory. That being said, it still doesn't discount the fact that Hamas refused to accept even the idea of a state of Israel, regardless of its borders. Quote
cybercoma Posted July 13, 2014 Report Posted July 13, 2014 The "Iron Dome" that the Americans have built for Israel appears to be very effective. US reports indicate that about 95% of the incoming missiles are being shot down.Then my following question is, would it be enough for our government to just sit back and rely on missile defence to intercept attacks? Would that be enough for you if rockets were aimed at your neighbourhood? Or would you want your government to take it a step further and do something to ensure that the rocket attacks stop and the people launching them are "taken care of"? Quote
waldo Posted July 13, 2014 Report Posted July 13, 2014 derail . imagine that... the guy turns yet another post toward Canada! It truly begs the question as to what transgression/liberty some Canadian border guard must have taken with the guy... and at what point he will be set free to say "Mission Accomplished"! Quote
cybercoma Posted July 13, 2014 Report Posted July 13, 2014 I'm not saying anything about whether Palestine has the right to launch these attacks, even assuming that they do have that right, does a nation under attack not have the responsibility to its citizenry to defend itself and go after the attackers? Quote
jacee Posted July 13, 2014 Report Posted July 13, 2014 (edited) Then my following question is, would it be enough for our government to just sit back and rely on missile defence to intercept attacks? Would that be enough for you if rockets were aimed at your neighbourhood? Or would you want your government to take it a step further and do something to ensure that the rocket attacks stop and the people launching them are "taken care of"?Ya. Get the hell out of their territory and stop provoking.. Edited July 13, 2014 by jacee Quote
Shady Posted July 13, 2014 Report Posted July 13, 2014 Ya. Stop occupying their territory. . But the violence and opposition to Israel pre-dates said "occupation." Quote
cybercoma Posted July 13, 2014 Report Posted July 13, 2014 Ya. Get the hell out of their territory and stop provoking. . So it's impossible to reason with you. Got it. Hamas will not stop even if Israel stops "occupying their territory." Do you know what Hamas considers its territory? ALL of Israel. Is that your position too: Israel has no right to exist? Quote
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