Boges Posted July 21, 2014 Report Posted July 21, 2014 (edited) I read that some Anti-Israeli people here in Canada actually believe the kids were killed in a car accident weeks ago and Israel pinned their death on Hamas to justify this current attack. And of course that would explain why Hamas continues to fire rockets into Israel Do people really believe this tripe? http://www.torontosun.com/2014/07/19/peace-not-at-this-street-protest Edited July 21, 2014 by Boges Quote
dre Posted July 21, 2014 Report Posted July 21, 2014 When posters on a forum show an intolerance for Jews and their safety, indeed cheering on those who have called for their deaths, then Godwin's Law doesn't exactly apply, does it? In fact, the complete and utter disregard for Jews wasn't invoked by me at all. This was already the underlying tone of a lot of people's posts here. And I say Jews, because it's the innocent civilians who're being targeted by Hamas. Not the government and not the Israeli military. Innocent civilians bear the brunt of the conflict on BOTH sides. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
Black Dog Posted July 21, 2014 Report Posted July 21, 2014 (edited) Except when you're talking about hatred of the Jews. It would seem that comparison would be rather apt. There's an actual hashtag on Twitter #hitlerwasright. Saying that because Hamas poses a low level of threat doesn't mean Israel should ignore it. I remember when I was in college these altercations were started because Militants would blow themselves up in cafes. Israel got tough about who could be within their borders. Now people compare them to South Africa. If they can neutralize Hamas's ability to attack civilians then I'm predicting we'll see an extended period of relative peace. Remember it was Hamas who rejected a ceasefire when they had the most to lose. Except if you look at the last 20 years or so, whenever there's calm, that's when Israel ramps up the settlement building. The ideal peace plan from an Likudnik/settler standpoint is to keep the Palestinian population crammed into squalid reservations, but without the threat of armed resistance. Edited July 21, 2014 by Black Dog Quote
Argus Posted July 21, 2014 Report Posted July 21, 2014 Thank you for your candor. I now better understand your views and opinions shared in this venue. None of that was opinion. It was absolute, undeniable fact. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted July 21, 2014 Report Posted July 21, 2014 Your stereotyping and racism do not qualify or give credibility to your comments. Unlike your Jew-bating posts, mine are simply based on the obvious observation of the limited territory and its limited physical and economic resources. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted July 21, 2014 Report Posted July 21, 2014 (edited) Overnight the Israeli military pounded the Gaza City neighborhood of Shijaiyeh. So what? Their elected terrorist government refuses to stop firing rockets at Israel, and the people cheer every time they see rockets headed for Israel. The Israelis have every right to use whatever level of military force is required to stop it. Edited July 21, 2014 by Argus Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
dre Posted July 21, 2014 Report Posted July 21, 2014 Except if you look at the last 20 years or so, whenever there's calm, that's when Israel ramps up the settlement building. The ideal peace plan from an Likudnik/settler standpoint is to keep the Palestinian population crammed into squalid reservations, but without the threat of armed resistance. Yup... keep using all the land, and plundering it for resources... without extending political rights to the inhabitants. And its working very well. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
Boges Posted July 21, 2014 Report Posted July 21, 2014 If Gaza is so horrible, why don't the inhabitants leave? It's not like Israel is keeping them there. Israel will not get rid of the blockade as long as Hamas is in charge and pledging to kill Jews. Quote
Shady Posted July 21, 2014 Report Posted July 21, 2014 Yup... keep using all the land, and plundering it for resources... without extending political rights to the inhabitants. And its working very well. Your statement is nonsensical. Probably out if fear. But Israel hasn't plundered land for its resources. They developed their own land which was a desert. And all Israeli inhabitants, Jews, Muslims alike have rights and freedoms. Quote
dre Posted July 21, 2014 Report Posted July 21, 2014 So what? Their elected terrorist government refuses to stop firing rockets at Israel, and the people cheer every time they see rockets headed for Israel. The Israelis have every right to use whatever level of military force is required to stop it. And the palestinians have every right to fight the occupation.... so round and round we go. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
dre Posted July 21, 2014 Report Posted July 21, 2014 But Israel hasn't plundered land for its resources. That is EXACTLY what they have done. The west bank is a massive network of wells, pipelines and pumping stations, and 2/3rds of their fresh water comes from the occupied territories. But since you dont consider that plundering Ill be showing up on your property with my mining equipment and an armed security force! (lets just pretend you did own some LOL) Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
Argus Posted July 21, 2014 Report Posted July 21, 2014 "Only yesterday we reported on protests against the War on Gaza that had flooded the streets of Jerusalem with thousands of protesters. Jews and Muslims marched side-by-side in support of civilians in Gaza, 95% of them were Muslims. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted July 21, 2014 Report Posted July 21, 2014 Innocent civilians bear the brunt of the conflict on BOTH sides. Then Hamas should agree to stop firing rockets into Israel. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Black Dog Posted July 21, 2014 Report Posted July 21, 2014 If Gaza is so horrible, why don't the inhabitants leave? It's not like Israel is keeping them there. First, yeah, they are being kept there and second, where would they go? Israel will not get rid of the blockade as long as Hamas is in charge and pledging to kill Jews. Perhaps they'd loosen things up a bit. But you're dreaming if you think Hamas' violence is even the primary barrier to peace. Quote
Boges Posted July 21, 2014 Report Posted July 21, 2014 First, yeah, they are being kept there and second, where would they go? They share a border with Egypt don't they? Why don't Muslims take care of their own? Perhaps they'd loosen things up a bit. But you're dreaming if you think Hamas' violence is even the primary barrier to peace. It seems to blockade is the sticking point for Hamas to agree to a ceasefire, in a war they're losing badly. Do you really expect Israel to allow unfettered importation of weapons? Quote
cybercoma Posted July 21, 2014 Report Posted July 21, 2014 Innocent civilians bear the brunt of the conflict on BOTH sides.You don't say. Maybe Hamas should stop being idiots then. Quote
Black Dog Posted July 21, 2014 Report Posted July 21, 2014 They share a border with Egypt don't they? Why don't Muslims take care of their own? Why would Egypt do that exactly? It seems to blockade is the sticking point for Hamas to agree to a ceasefire, in a war they're losing badly. Do you really expect Israel to allow unfettered importation of weapons? If you've been paying attention to what I'm saying, these are minor details in the grand scheme of things. Hamas could lay down its arms tomorrow and pledge itself to non-violence and things wouldn't change because Hamas is little more than an irritant for Israel, but makes a good and obliging scapegoat. Quote
Boges Posted July 21, 2014 Report Posted July 21, 2014 Why would Egypt do that exactly? Dunno, help out their fellow Muslims against the Infadel. If you've been paying attention to what I'm saying, these are minor details in the grand scheme of things. Hamas could lay down its arms tomorrow and pledge itself to non-violence and things wouldn't change because Hamas is little more than an irritant for Israel, but makes a good and obliging scapegoat. It would certain stop this conflict. Hamas has repeatedly refused to comply with a ceasefire. Why? They're getting pwned. Quote
Black Dog Posted July 21, 2014 Report Posted July 21, 2014 Dunno, help out their fellow Muslims against the Infadel. Pretty sure Egypt has its own problems with militant Islamists without opening the door to nearly 2 million more who would fit the profile. It would certain stop this conflict. Hamas has repeatedly refused to comply with a ceasefire. Why? They're getting pwned. Because it suits their interests to have plenty of pictures of dead Palestinian kids plastered across the world's TV screens. Quote
dre Posted July 21, 2014 Report Posted July 21, 2014 You don't say. Maybe Hamas should stop being idiots then. Maybe Israel should end the military occupation and siege of 4 million peoples land? Do you really expect palestinians to do nothing while more and more of their land is conquered/colonized? Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
cybercoma Posted July 21, 2014 Report Posted July 21, 2014 (edited) Maybe Israel should end the military occupationIs that an excuse for targeting innocent civilians with rocket attacks? And if a group were firing rockets at downtown Montreal, would you be ok with Canada just giving in to their demands? There's a reason governments don't negotiate with terrorists. Under absolutely no circumstances, can you reward the targeting of innocent civilians. This legitimizes those tactics and puts everyone at risk. Edited July 21, 2014 by cybercoma Quote
Boges Posted July 21, 2014 Report Posted July 21, 2014 Pretty sure Egypt has its own problems with militant Islamists without opening the door to nearly 2 million more who would fit the profile. Because it suits their interests to have plenty of pictures of dead Palestinian kids plastered across the world's TV screens. So you concede that these are Militant Islamists that we're dealing with. The kind of people that don't really hold much value in the lives of their civilians. Not really clear how anyone can be sympathetic to their cause. Quote
Black Dog Posted July 21, 2014 Report Posted July 21, 2014 So you concede that these are Militant Islamists that we're dealing with. The kind of people that don't really hold much value in the lives of their civilians. Not really clear how anyone can be sympathetic to their cause. You're right. Should probably just gas them all. Quote
Boges Posted July 21, 2014 Report Posted July 21, 2014 You're right. Should probably just gas them all. Not the civilians, but I think attempted to completely eliminate the Hamas element in the area is a good policy. Quote
dre Posted July 21, 2014 Report Posted July 21, 2014 (edited) It seems to blockade is the sticking point for Hamas to agree to a ceasefire, in a war they're losing badly. You dont seem to understand assymetric warfare. Guerilla movements ALWAYS expect to badly lose these kind of pitched battles, but they sometimes win in the end. All these dead civilians will make it easier than ever for Hamas to blame their shortcomings as a government on Israel, and it will make them stronger and more popular than ever. Just like the invasion of Lebanon for the purpose of "wiping out Hezzbollah" made Hezzbollah stronger than ever and the invasion of Lebanan 30 years before that created the PLO. Its not always clear whos winning and whos not. Edited July 21, 2014 by dre Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
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