Moncton NB shooting

[monty16]

Well, it's going to be disappointing to not hear anymore about what everybody learned from watching police shows on t.v.

[cybercoma]

Stop what? Debating? Stop reminding everyone that the Charter of Rights and Freedoms apply to all it's citizens?

Sounds like you given up debating!

WWWTT

What is there to debate? He will stand trial for shooting and killing 3 officers. Are you arguing that he's innocent until proven guilty? Because that's not an arguable point.

[WWWTT]

What is there to debate? He will stand trial for shooting and killing 3 officers. Are you arguing that he's innocent until proven guilty? Because that's not an arguable point.

Are those the allegations that he was charged with?

I only heard that he was now in custody, did not hear what the charges were.

WWWTT

[Argus]

This is a good point to bring up.

No, it's actually a really stupid thing to bring up.

There are thoughtful and logical ways and times to deal with police abuse of authority, but you two never seem to put either thought or logic into your posts, just paranoid kookery.

[Argus]

Sounds like you got the real problem here buddy.

What is it that you don't understand about the Canadian charter of rights and freedoms????

Are you illiterate?

The charter says nothing whatsoever about us abandoning all morality and judgement ourelves. It only deal with the government.

Not that your postings are ever much concerned with morality or judgement, of course.

[Michael Hardner]

I agree with Cyber and Argus. There doesn't seem to be a viable debate here. You have to squeeze the rock pretty hard to get blood out of it, ie. make some stretch to tie this to police abuse, violence in media.

At a certain point, it's just a debate because people want to talk about anything at all.

[WWWTT]

The charter says nothing whatsoever about us abandoning all morality and judgement ourelves. It only deal with the government.

Not that your postings are ever much concerned with morality or judgement, of course.

Of ok then, so wanting to lynch this guy without a trial is the moral high ground?

I think you would be more comfortable in a country where the mob rules!

WWWTT

[Smallc]

I would rather they hadn't taken him into custody personally. He's a monster, sick or not.

[monty16]

I would rather they hadn't taken him into custody personally. He's a monster, sick or not.

Really? On what basis do you say that? Is it better to kill a human being than to capture him and prevent him from killing again? What makes him a monster to you? Can you stand behind your words or are you already wishing that you didn't say them?

Let's see how many on this forum will stand with you and maybe we can make something worthwhile out of this thread after all?

I'm thinking it might help us to understand why soldiers go off to kill people in foreign lands. I consider yours an emotional outburst of anger and that could have a lot to do with the ease of conditioning a soldier's mind to kill. You advocate killing and therefore I have little doubt that you would kill with impunity.

[The_Squid]

Really? On what basis do you say that? Is it better to kill a human being than to capture him and prevent him from killing again? What makes him a monster to you? Can you stand behind your words or are you already wishing that you didn't say them?

Let's see how many on this forum will stand with you and maybe we can make something worthwhile out of this thread after all?

I'm thinking it might help us to understand why soldiers go off to kill people in foreign lands. I consider yours an emotional outburst of anger and that could have a lot to do with the ease of conditioning a soldier's mind to kill. You advocate killing and therefore I have little doubt that you would kill with impunity.

I wouldn't have cared less if the cops blew this monster away. It's not a moral injustice to kill someone who is in the midst of a killing spree.

[monty16]

I wouldn't have cared less if the cops blew this monster away. It's not a moral injustice to kill someone who is in the midst of a killing spree.

Ahhhhh, I see that you are trying to escape from standing behind your words now. You not so cleverly say that he was in the midst of a killing spree when in fact at the time he was captured he wasn't. So you want to take the moral high ground after all and you don't 'really' advocate the police murdering the man when they were able to capture him unharmed!

Good for you! Sometimes it only requires a few moments to think it through. Alas, had the US military people taken the time to think it through before obeying their government's propagandizing of Iraqis and Afghanis, a lot of live could have been saved.

[PIK]

Almost forgot.

Sounds like you have amnesia about the RCMP breaking and entering homes and seizing fire arms during the Alberta floods last year.

Ya, the cops, they never do bad things. Those guys are like freekin angels with halos on their heads.

WWWTT

So it is now OK to shoot cops?? You're a idiot with your posts on this subject and I don't care if I get banned for saying it. And trust me I will be banned.

[roy baty]

It's not the job of the justice system to protect victims.

WWWTT

I am not sure you realize just how silly your above statement reads. Read it again and think about it some more. Last time I checked the justice system is in place to impose laws that do protect everyone which includes the victims and unfortunately even perpetrators like this sad excuse for a human being. If it were not for the justice system, I am sure this guy would have gotten a bullet to the head the moment they spotted him crawl out of the brush.

Edited June 6, 2014 by roy baty

[guyser]

So it is now OK to shoot cops?? You're a idiot with your posts on this subject and I don't care if I get banned for saying it. And trust me I will be banned.

Is there a thumbs up icon?

[jbg]

I would rather they hadn't taken him into custody personally. He's a monster, sick or not.

Really? On what basis do you say that? Is it better to kill a human being than to capture him and prevent him from killing again? What makes him a monster to you? Can you stand behind your words or are you already wishing that you didn't say them?

If he were killed I doubt he'd kill again. And what qualities make this person a human being? Same ones as Daniel St. Hubert? (link), excerpts about this gem below:

Just before dawn on Wednesday, a man thought by the police to be Daniel St. Hubert sat on a bench in a Chelsea subway station. Two weeks before, Mr. St. Hubert had been released from a five-year term in prison for trying to strangle his mother with an electrical cord.

The man boarded a southbound 1 train, quickly hopped off and, the police say, plunged a knife into the side of a homeless man on the platform.

Three days earlier, on Sunday, the police said, Mr. St. Hubert, 27, assaulted two small children in a frenzied knife attack in the elevator of a Brooklyn housing project, killing a 6-year-old boy and leaving a 7-year old girl in critical condition.

Six days earlier, the police said, he may have fatally stabbed an 18-year-old woman on a Brooklyn street.

Some mammals, though they walk on two legs, are not worth the air that they breathe. We need to start forming moral judgments.

I'm thinking it might help us to understand why soldiers go off to kill people in foreign lands. I consider yours an emotional outburst of anger and that could have a lot to do with the ease of conditioning a soldier's mind to kill. You advocate killing and therefore I have little doubt that you would kill with impunity.

How does the duties of a soldier to fight for his country in war relate to this act of butchery?

[Hydraboss]

Really? On what basis do you say that? Is it better to kill a human being than to capture him and prevent him from killing again? What makes him a monster to you? Can you stand behind your words or are you already wishing that you didn't say them?

Let's see how many on this forum will stand with you and maybe we can make something worthwhile out of this thread after all?

I'm thinking it might help us to understand why soldiers go off to kill people in foreign lands. I consider yours an emotional outburst of anger and that could have a lot to do with the ease of conditioning a soldier's mind to kill. You advocate killing and therefore I have little doubt that you would kill with impunity.

Count me as standing with both he and Squid on this one. There are monsters that absolutely should be "eliminated" at first opportunity. Or murdered by cops. Or shot in the head twice. Etc, etc. Whatever you want to call it buddy, the world would be a better place without this guy in it. No trial. No bs "rehab" attempts. Just dead.

So to answer your first question: Yes. It is better to kill a human being than to capture him and prevent him from killing again. Period.

Edited June 6, 2014 by Hydraboss

[GostHacked]

No, it's actually a really stupid thing to bring up.

There are thoughtful and logical ways and times to deal with police abuse of authority, but you two never seem to put either thought or logic into your posts, just paranoid kookery.

Innocent people die by police actions quite often. It's not paranoia really. I've started a couple threads on police brutality and such. The Kelly Thomas incident is not paranoid kookery. The cop on video clearly says : 'I am going to f*ck you up.' Reasonable use of force? On a homeless schizo iraq war vet? I just hope you are not on the end of justifiable force. Overall I think the point is a good one.

How are you to deal with police abuse? Call 911? Their own internal investigations usually lead to the officer acting within the guidelines of reasonable force.

It seems quite clear that this Borque is the shooter, and he will be convicted. I am surprised he was taken alive.

[GostHacked]

I agree with Cyber and Argus. There doesn't seem to be a viable debate here. You have to squeeze the rock pretty hard to get blood out of it, ie. make some stretch to tie this to police abuse, violence in media.

No, this is not police abuse here. And WWWTT was not using it as an example of police abuse.

[GostHacked]

Not to mention there is an air of overall distrust for the police because of many tyrannical like things the government has put in place. All in the name of keeping you safe from terrorists. This distrust is creating people like Borque to take action into his own hands. Again it is not ok to kill anyone. But if you want to understand why it happened and what his reasons are, he needs to be allowed to speak. I'd be tempted to pop him as well if three of my comrades went down.

I wonder if online spying would have helped the police. It's not like he did not make any public facebook postings about his obvious hatred for the police and authority in general.

[On Guard for Thee]

Problem with Thermal imaging systems is that they are not the end all be all tool. they can be very effective at night in open terrain when the ground is cooler. very effective in the winter. however in the deep bush where this guy was, if you have enough over head cover then they can be ineffective. In fact the military produces fabric that helps in masking heat signatures, such as CADPAT, Cam Nets , or veh screens.... top that off with all mother natures criters running around and you could chase something for miles before clearly indentifing it as the right target. they are easily fooled as well lying in one spot for a couple hours then moving to deep cover will give a false heat signature. Thermal is normally used with over serv op equip to cover all the possiable spectrems, such as IR, ground radar, etc etc...

Unlike the movies they don't see through objects suchs as walls or trees etc...

The RCMP had alot of assets on the ground, and this guy was going to get caught it was just a matter of time, but i think it was mother nature that drove him out of the thick brush....it was raining so he was wet and cold, the insects alone would be enough to drive him crazy....anyone spent any time in the woods would know the flies and skiters and beyond thick this time of year....you can't mess with Mother Nature she'll beat you every time....

I think it is time to give 2 mins and pray for the fallen and thier families....

Thanks for that info. And man do I know about them skitters. I spent time living in tents fighting forest fires in the north of various provinces across Canada. Getting itchy just thinking about it.

There was a televised interview with the family of one of the fallen this am. Perhaps you saw it as well. Very touching and very sad. I found myself choking back some tears. They seem like a strong and vibrant family so I'm sure they will rise above. But such a waste.

[WWWTT]

I am not sure you realize just how silly your above statement reads. Read it again and think about it some more. Last time I checked the justice system is in place to impose laws that do protect everyone which includes the victims and unfortunately even perpetrators like this sad excuse for a human being. If it were not for the justice system, I am sure this guy would have gotten a bullet to the head the moment they spotted him crawl out of the brush.

Not my fault you don't understand that the justice system in Canada is designed for trials and hearings, dismissing cases and/or finding convictions and applying appropriate sentencing.

Now do I bear any responsibility for how you may misinterpret our judicial functions.

WWWTT

Edited June 6, 2014 by WWWTT

[On Guard for Thee]

That's OK...the Canadian version of criminal justice will protect this guy far more than any victim. The Canadian version of restorative justice will make sure he is rehabilitated. The Canadian version.....

Which is why our system is so much more effective than yours. It's even a lot cheaper. Of course we don't farm ours out to the likes of Cheney and such. Sorry if I impuned one of your heroes.

[WWWTT]

No, this is not police abuse here. And WWWTT was not using it as an example of police abuse.

True, but what I am really getting at is that there is more than one side to a story.

And according to the CCORAF, everyone is innocent until proven guilty.

Just trying to point out that the person charged in this case could have reason's that they feel are logical in taking.

WWWTT

[On Guard for Thee]

I am just hearing that the charges have now been laid (3 murder 2 attempted) but neither side requested any psychological evaluation so he's back in court in early July. Sounds like this might be a fast track.

[Michael Hardner]

No, this is not police abuse here. And WWWTT was not using it as an example of police abuse.

Just an example actually. I don't think this is about anything.