Argus Posted June 9, 2014 Report Posted June 9, 2014 After thinking about it. I support the 3rd party advertising. They may tell us something that these leaders do not want us to know about. Then you should also support corporations and billionaires being able to funnel tens of millions of dollars into third party campaign ads for those candidates who they support. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted June 9, 2014 Report Posted June 9, 2014 I agree, though with reasonable limits on spending. . So short sighted, the Left. The US system has become so subject to money from wealthy interests that it is subverting their democracy. But you don't care. All you can see is these particular ads agree with you, so they're okay. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
scribblet Posted June 9, 2014 Report Posted June 9, 2014 (edited) During the 2012 Alberta elections the unions circumvented the spending caps by framing their 'robo calls' as a poll. Friends from Alberta told me that these ads had a huge impact on the election so it would appear that big labour/unions et al are drowning out other democratic voices who don't have the money for such huge campaigns. In other words the well heeled are over riding and drowning out the concerns of the average citizen. Edited June 9, 2014 by scribblet Quote Hey Ho - Ontario Liberals Have to Go - Fight Wynne - save our province
scribblet Posted June 9, 2014 Report Posted June 9, 2014 If the Liberals win, does that mean that Ontarians are happy with their ongoing leadership on the economy? No, it means they are believing the attack ads and are afraid of Tim Hudak. Admittedly I don't like some of his platform but in reality it's not as scarey as being stuck with another round of corruption and sleaze. Sleaze here: http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/06/08/mcguinty-government-changed-green-energy-rules-to-benefit-liberal-linked-firms-court-filing-charges/ Quote Hey Ho - Ontario Liberals Have to Go - Fight Wynne - save our province
BubberMiley Posted June 9, 2014 Report Posted June 9, 2014 No, it means they are believing the attack ads and are afraid of Tim Hudak.It has nothing to do with "attack ads" and everything to do with the irresponsible, insane pledge to reduce the public service by 100,000 workers while not providing clear details about what services that would involve cutting. It makes it look like he doesn't know what he's doing and would be very careless if he got power. End of campaign right there. Quote "I think it's fun watching the waldick get all excited/knickers in a knot over something." -scribblet
Argus Posted June 9, 2014 Report Posted June 9, 2014 It has nothing to do with "attack ads" and everything to do with the irresponsible, insane pledge to reduce the public service by 100,000 workers while not providing clear details about what services that would involve cutting. It makes it look like he doesn't know what he's doing and would be very careless if he got power. End of campaign right there. You wouldn't ever describe the Liberals as careless in power, after all! Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
BubberMiley Posted June 9, 2014 Report Posted June 9, 2014 You wouldn't ever describe the Liberals as careless in power, after all!Of course. But speaking as an outside observer, at least they have experience and might have learned from their mistakes. Signing up for a blind 100,000-person lay-off sounds like signing up for more mistakes to spite the previous mistake-makers. Quote "I think it's fun watching the waldick get all excited/knickers in a knot over something." -scribblet
scribblet Posted June 9, 2014 Report Posted June 9, 2014 Hudak isn't going to 'fire' or lay off a 100,000 people, most of them will be be attrition, retirement and some taken over by outsourcing but the attack ads and the other parties keep telling people he's going to fire 100,000. If that were true I wouldn't vote for him either, also he's only taking this back to 2009 levels as the Liberals increased the civil service by a lot more than 100.000. Quote Hey Ho - Ontario Liberals Have to Go - Fight Wynne - save our province
Argus Posted June 9, 2014 Report Posted June 9, 2014 (edited) Of course. But speaking as an outside observer, at least they have experience and might have learned from their mistakes. Signing up for a blind 100,000-person lay-off sounds like signing up for more mistakes to spite the previous mistake-makers. Their gas plant fiasco was only a couple of years ago. The newest scandal, involving buying out that building in Toronto was this year. There's no sign they've learned that the public purse is not in place to help their party. There's no sign they're not going to go right on giving fat salary and benefit increases to the public service unions in exchange for those unions donating money and then campaigning for them at election time. There's no sign they've learned anything from the ORng mess, or their disaster with green power. Edited June 9, 2014 by Argus Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Moonbox Posted June 9, 2014 Report Posted June 9, 2014 (edited) Hudak isn't going to 'fire' or lay off a 100,000 people It doesn't really matter scribblet. The 100,000 job cuts number is as much fantasy as the 1,000,000 jobs created one. Hudak chose to present big, rounded, pretty numbers to the electorate rather than intellectual honesty, and in so doing he made the election about him. He gave the other parties something solid to attack him on, and his doesn't have anywhere near the charisma required to deflect these criticisms and get people to trust him. This is the second time he's turned out a huge flop in an Ontario election, and his campaign managers are now proven idiots. This election could have and should have been the easiest one in the history of Ontario for the PC's to win. The level of corruption and mismanagement is unprecedented. McGuinty made the Bob Rae deficits look like child's play and his Green Energy Act is likely to end up being the biggest swindle in Ontario's history (worse than Flaherty's 407 sell-off). Forget the gas plants, Orange, E-Health and such. There's enough crap for the NDP and PC's to shovel on the Liberals to bury them for 10-15 years. It's too bad they're far too incompetent to do it. Edited June 9, 2014 by Moonbox Quote "A man is no more entitled to an opinion for which he cannot account than he is for a pint of beer for which he cannot pay" - Anonymous
Bob Macadoo Posted June 9, 2014 Report Posted June 9, 2014 You talk all about corporations. Name a corporation that has come out and put money down to advertise for Hudak."Working Canadians", cripes they're even narrated by Katherine Swift from ON Taxpayer's Federation.....might as well had Hudak do it.Oh but they are only against Wynne, not for Hudak I guess that counts though right Quote
jacee Posted June 9, 2014 Report Posted June 9, 2014 No, it means they are believing the attack ads and are afraid of Tim Hudak. Admittedly I don't like some of his platform but in reality it's not as scarey as being stuck with another round of corruption and sleaze. Sleaze here: http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/06/08/mcguinty-government-changed-green-energy-rules-to-benefit-liberal-linked-firms-court-filing-charges/ So ... the US can discriminate against Canadian companies with its huge "Buy American" campaign, but Ontario can't favour local companies! Ontario also lost a WTO ruling that found the domestic content requirements in the Green Energy Act discriminated against foreign-owned firms and were a violation of trade agreements. Something wrong there! . Quote
DFCaper Posted June 9, 2014 Report Posted June 9, 2014 It doesn't really matter scribblet. The 100,000 job cuts number is as much fantasy as the 1,000,000 jobs created one. Hudak chose to present big, rounded, pretty numbers to the electorate rather than intellectual honesty, and in so doing he made the election about him. He gave the other parties something solid to attack him on, and his doesn't have anywhere near the charisma required to deflect these criticisms and get people to trust him. This is the second time he's turned out a huge flop in an Ontario election, and his campaign managers are now proven idiots. This election could have and should have been the easiest one in the history of Ontario for the PC's to win. The level of corruption and mismanagement is unprecedented. McGuinty made the Bob Rae deficits look like child's play and his Green Energy Act is likely to end up being the biggest swindle in Ontario's history (worse than Flaherty's 407 sell-off). Forget the gas plants, Orange, E-Health and such. There's enough crap for the NDP and PC's to shovel on the Liberals to bury them for 10-15 years. It's too bad they're far too incompetent to do it. I think that people are still considering to vote for the liberals, proves that the electorate is dumb. That and the negative advertising is working. How else can people believe that anyone else can be worst than the liberals. I'm not sure if the communist parties of the world can get off as easily as the liberals would have if they win this election. Quote "Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it" - Hellen Keller "Success is not measured by the heights one attains, but by the obstacles one overcomes in its attainment" - Booker T. Washington
jacee Posted June 10, 2014 Report Posted June 10, 2014 I think that people are still considering to vote for the liberals, proves that the electorate is dumb. That and the negative advertising is working. How else can people believe that anyone else can be worst than the liberals. I'm not sure if the communist parties of the world can get off as easily as the liberals would have if they win this election.Hudak just isn't a viable choice, and clearly Wynne's support hasn't melted down and bled to the NDP.. Quote
Argus Posted June 10, 2014 Report Posted June 10, 2014 "Working Canadians", cripes they're even narrated by Katherine Swift from ON Taxpayer's Federation.....might as well had Hudak do it. Oh but they are only against Wynne, not for Hudak I guess that counts though right I haven't seen any of their commercials. How much are they spending? The unions are spending millions to make sure their fat pay raises continue. The Liberals have increased spending by 75% since taking power. Where has that money gone? Not in improved services, as far as I can see. It's gone in fat pay raises to pay off the unions for helping them every election. When you can show a quid pro quo between Hudak and this "Working Canadians" - which is the first I've ever heard of them, you might have a complaint. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Moonbox Posted June 10, 2014 Report Posted June 10, 2014 I think that people are still considering to vote for the liberals, proves that the electorate is dumb. The electorate has always been dumb, and I've been saying that on this forum for years. The majority of NDP, Liberal and PC voters are dumb. It doesn't have anything to do with their political leanings. It has to do with the overall apathy and lack of interest of the electorate. Most voters vote the way they do on little to no information. Their ultimate vote is determined more on their upbringing, riding and whether or not they 'like' the individual party leaders than anything to do with issues or understanding thereof. Quote "A man is no more entitled to an opinion for which he cannot account than he is for a pint of beer for which he cannot pay" - Anonymous
scribblet Posted June 10, 2014 Report Posted June 10, 2014 ........................ This election could have and should have been the easiest one in the history of Ontario for the PC's to win. The level of corruption and mismanagement is unprecedented. McGuinty made the Bob Rae deficits look like child's play and his Green Energy Act is likely to end up being the biggest swindle in Ontario's history (worse than Flaherty's 407 sell-off). Forget the gas plants, Orange, E-Health and such. There's enough crap for the NDP and PC's to shovel on the Liberals to bury them for 10-15 years. It's too bad they're far too incompetent to do it. I thought Hudak was pretty much up front about what he was going to do which is why they are attacking him but their attacks are dishonest in that they completely misrepresent what he has said he will do. I agree he should not have given specific numbers and it is his election to lose, although one would have to wonder how anyone one could possibly vote for the Liberals thus enabling Wynne to continue with the corruption and mismanagement. Re Working Canadians: This is the first I've heard about them too so obviously they don't have the voice or money big unions do. I did find them on F/B and their website, will have to listen for their ads, or maybe they are just on line ? Quote Hey Ho - Ontario Liberals Have to Go - Fight Wynne - save our province
Moonbox Posted June 10, 2014 Report Posted June 10, 2014 (edited) He provided BS numbers as his election slogan. They were easy to discredit. The Liberals are of course being dishonest when discrediting them, but that doesn't make Tim Hudak's numbers any less dishonest.As for why people are voting Liberal despite the scandals, it's because things aren't that bad yet, and Kathleen Wynne has succeeded in convincing GTA Ontarians that Tim Hudak is a snake and he'll send us back into recession. It doesn't matter that she's even more of a snake herself. Her campaign is smarter and Tim Hudak's has been completely incompetent. It reminds me of John Tory's faith-based schooling fiasco. Back then too it was his election to lose, but like Tim Hudak he and his handlers took a loaded shotgun and pointed it at his face. The Liberals just helped him pull the trigger. Edited June 10, 2014 by Moonbox Quote "A man is no more entitled to an opinion for which he cannot account than he is for a pint of beer for which he cannot pay" - Anonymous
Bob Macadoo Posted June 10, 2014 Report Posted June 10, 2014 I haven't seen any of their commercials. (....).When you can show a quid pro quo between Hudak and this "Working Canadians" - which is the first I've ever heard of them, you might have a complaint. Way to move those goal posts. I don't know what quid you want shown to you, you wanted a 3rd party (Taxpayer Federation / Corporation-funded) spending hard now at the line. Partisan is as partisan does I guess. Listen to any radio and you'll hear it, they are eerily similar to the Working Families commercial. Like they hired the same PR firm which I wouldn't doubt. Quote
MiddleClassCentrist Posted June 10, 2014 Report Posted June 10, 2014 You talk all about corporations. Name a corporation that has come out and put money down to advertise for Hudak. National Post. The Globe and Mail. Endorsements in big media with a clear slant of reporting, specifically on the National Post's side. Quote Ideology does not make good policy. Good policy comes from an analysis of options, comparison of options and selection of one option that works best in the current situation. This option is often a compromise between ideologies.
GostHacked Posted June 10, 2014 Report Posted June 10, 2014 (edited) Except when the Union ads are telling bold face lies. You heard a politician speak right? Lemme guess, they are talking about this time, like every other time. 1, the economy, 2, healthcare, 3, who knows. Edited June 10, 2014 by GostHacked Quote
Moonbox Posted June 10, 2014 Report Posted June 10, 2014 (edited) National Post. The Globe and Mail. Endorsements in big media with a clear slant of reporting, specifically on the National Post's side. If you could explain the slant the Globe took on their VERY half-hearted endorsement of Tim Hudak, I'd really appreciate it. You might not like the endorsement, but if you can find any spin on it I'd love to hear your explanation. They pretty much said Tim Hudak was a lousy choice but on a tight minority leash he's probably better than a Liberal government that's swindled/blown billions of our dollars for nothing. The Globe has also not spent millions advertising their endorsement on television. The difference there couldn't be more different, but I'm not surprised you don't see that. Edited June 10, 2014 by Moonbox Quote "A man is no more entitled to an opinion for which he cannot account than he is for a pint of beer for which he cannot pay" - Anonymous
GostHacked Posted June 10, 2014 Report Posted June 10, 2014 Then you should also support corporations and billionaires being able to funnel tens of millions of dollars into third party campaign ads for those candidates who they support. That's the way things work you know. You and I have no power with a single vote compared to corporate backed political whore. Quote
Boges Posted June 10, 2014 Report Posted June 10, 2014 National Post. The Globe and Mail. Endorsements in big media with a clear slant of reporting, specifically on the National Post's side. Media organizations are going to support the Liberals too. Quote
Boges Posted June 10, 2014 Report Posted June 10, 2014 "Working Canadians", cripes they're even narrated by Katherine Swift from ON Taxpayer's Federation.....might as well had Hudak do it. Oh but they are only against Wynne, not for Hudak I guess that counts though right They're funded by small business not large corporations. Quote
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