Big Guy Posted May 21, 2014 Report Share Posted May 21, 2014 In Geneva, Health Minister Rona Ambrose has just pledged $36 million to help improve the lives of women and children - in sub-Saharan Africa. Hours later in Calgary, Deepak Obhrai, the parliamentary secretary to Foreign Affairs Minister John Baird, unveiled another program to help mothers and children in South Sudan. The Harper government pushed mother and child health issues at the G8 summit in June 2010. Canada pledged to spend $2.85 billion between 2010 and 2015 to assist women and children in developing countries as part of what was called the Muskoka Initiative. This was met with some resistance at the time from people who wanted to include support for contraception. Federal government figures say the number of women who die each year during pregnancy or childbirth has dropped by 47 per cent since 1990. There were 543,000 deaths that year compared with 287,000 in 2010. Proponents of this plan congratulate our federal government on its compassionate use of Canadian taxpayer money. Opponents question using Canadian tax money to deal with problems outside of Canada while we have a major funding shortfall of maternal and child health needs for Canadians. Is giving $36 million to maternal and child health problems in Africa a good use of taxpayer funds? Would that money be better used for maternal and child health problems of Canadians which would include the First Nations community? There are no funds being made available to promote contraception and other methods of birth control. Should the focus shift to this possible solution to the problems? Information can be found at; http://www.macleans.ca/society/canada-focused-on-maternal-child-health-ahead-of-summit/ and http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/canada-to-spend-36-million-to-help-improve-health-of-african-women-and-children/article18771292/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topaz Posted May 21, 2014 Report Share Posted May 21, 2014 I not sure were I stand on this issue but I did read a article a couple years ago that Harper is doing what his church supports through tax payers or government money. To understand this better, one would have to read up on his church the Alliance Missionary, I think the name is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
normanchateau Posted May 22, 2014 Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 I not sure were I stand on this issue but I did read a article a couple years ago that Harper is doing what his church supports through tax payers or government money. To understand this better, one would have to read up on his church the Alliance Missionary, I think the name is. Mr. Harper is a born-again member of the Missionary and Alliance Church. His church advocates for the conversion of Jews to Christianity. His church, like all Evangelical Christian churches, is a strong advocate for Israel. While Jews account for only 1% of the Canadian population, Evangelical Christians account for 10% of the population. Hence Mr. Harper's over-the-top support. Not surprisingly, Mr. Harper brought a huge entourage of Evangelicals to Israel at taxpayer expense. See: http://blogs.vancouversun.com/2014/01/28/why-did-10-evangelical-leaders-fly-with-harper-to-israel/ His church also strongly opposes the use of marijuana and not surprisingly, Mr. Harper's party remains the only major party in Canada to support criminalization of this plant. The NDP supports decriminalization while the Greens and Liberals support legalization. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted May 22, 2014 Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 Is giving $36 million to maternal and child health problems in Africa a good use of taxpayer funds? What amounts to about $1 for every Canadian to help save lives for 2 of the most vulnerable groups (children and mothers) in the poorest area of the world is a good use of fund IMO and not exactly straining our pocketbooks. Would that money be better used for maternal and child health problems of Canadians which would include the First Nations community? No. We can and should do both. We have always had (and might always continue to have) issues of poverty and maternal and child health problems to some vulnerable groups in Canada relative to groups that are economically better off and we should improve this, but right now you have rampant child (under age 5) mortality in sub-Saharan Africa, with dozens of countries with over 100 deaths per 1000 children under 5, and a few countries (Sierra Leone, Chad, Angola) with over 150-180 death per 1000. Canada and most other fully industrialized nations have child mortality rates of around 4 deaths per 1000, almost as low as is practically possible. You can't compare the problems in Africa to Canada. You are a terrible human being if you live in Canada and don't want to give $1 per year to support programs that will save lives of children (and mothers) in Africa. There are no funds being made available to promote contraception and other methods of birth control. Should the focus shift to this possible solution to the problems? The Harper gov refusing to fund contraception efforts in Africa is a savage, barbaric policy based on religious BS that is literally killing people in sub-Saharan Africa. This region has rampant over-population where their economies can't support the growth, and HIV/AIDS is a massive problem there. Denying them condoms is almost akin to a crime against humanity. But let's have the Harper gov keep letting Canadian diamond and gold/mineral mining companies exploiting these economies because they're such compassionate Christians. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted May 22, 2014 Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 I was going to post more substantially in this thread until I came across this beauty... Denying them condoms is almost akin to a crime against humanity. Looks like a thread for the bat-shit crazy kind. So I think I'll pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted May 22, 2014 Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 I was going to post more substantially in this thread until I came across this beauty... Looks like a thread for the bat-shit crazy kind. So I think I'll pass. could you provide a link and some evidence to back this up per the forum rules, please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted May 22, 2014 Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 (edited) I was going to post more substantially in this thread until I came across this beauty... Looks like a thread for the bat-shit crazy kind. So I think I'll pass. This policy has almost certainly led to deaths in sub-Saharan Africa. I think it's the Harper gov and anyone who supports this policy who is bat-shit crazy. That this policy is based on ridiculous religious dogma only adds to the crazy. We live in the 21st century in a highly educated country where virtually everyone has free access to books and the internet. Everyone needs to start thinking and acting like it, especially policy makers. Fact: The Harper gov is willfully letting people die due to denying Africans access to condoms when using their development funding. They're willfully complicit in deaths. Edited May 22, 2014 by Moonlight Graham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Guy Posted May 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 It is no secret that the current Harper government and Harper himself is pro-life. That is their choice and view and I respect that fact. What I personally have difficulty with is that the Harper government is "adjusting" our funding of foreign affairs to satisfy the Conservative domestic philosophy. I think that it is disingenuous of the Harper government to avoid Canadian opposition to the Conservative policy on abortion but using Canadian taxpayer funds to support the minority Harper position on abortion. But he is our Prime Minister and we have given him that power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted May 22, 2014 Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 It is no secret that the current Harper government and Harper himself is pro-life. That is their choice and view and I respect that fact. What I personally have difficulty with is that the Harper government is "adjusting" our funding of foreign affairs to satisfy the Conservative domestic philosophy. I think that it is disingenuous of the Harper government to avoid Canadian opposition to the Conservative policy on abortion but using Canadian taxpayer funds to support the minority Harper position on abortion. But he is our Prime Minister and we have given him that power. The problem is, is that many of your ilk don't seem or want to understand that contraception, and especially abortion is seen as an abomination in many African countries. The adjusting is to their cultural, religious and political philosphy, not ours. #Imperialism Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted May 22, 2014 Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 The problem is, is that many of your ilk don't seem or want to understand that contraception, and especially abortion is seen as an abomination in many African countries. The adjusting is to their cultural, religious and political philosphy, not ours. #Imperialism Harper is a member of the Christian and Missionary Alliance church, one of who's beliefs is that it doesn't matter how bad we F up the planet, God will put it right. I spent over 10 years working in Africa, most countries want birth control but will go to abortion if necessary. Some African countries are of course Muslim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted May 22, 2014 Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 Harper is a member of the Christian and Missionary Alliance church, one of who's beliefs is that it doesn't matter how bad we F up the planet, God will put it right. I spent over 10 years working in Africa, most countries want birth control but will go to abortion if necessary. Some African countries are of course Muslim. Abortion isn't birth control, and I don't want my tax money going to fund the killing of unborn black babies because it makes white liberals in North America feel better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monty16 Posted May 22, 2014 Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 Abortion isn't birth control, and I don't want my tax money going to fund the killing of unborn black babies because it makes white liberals in North America feel better. What are you suggesting Shady? That birth control is abortion? And btw, I think it's a little over the top for you to refer to 'On Guard for Thee' by using the derogatory phrase of 'those of your ilk'. You will be well advised to not try that with me thank you very much! We'll not get down to the personal level again my friend! I for one won't tolerate it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted May 22, 2014 Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 Abortion isn't birth control, and I don't want my tax money going to fund the killing of unborn black babies because it makes white liberals in North America feel better. The abortion part will happen one way or the other. White conservative religious freaks should help fund contraception so the former becomes less likely. Most African countries have nothing against the latter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monty16 Posted May 22, 2014 Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 The abortion part will happen one way or the other. White conservative religious freaks should help fund contraception so the former becomes less likely. Most African countries have nothing against the latter. Don't be fooled; some of them think that the birth control pill equals abortion. They just don't state their beliefs in so many words. It's a credibility issue with them on which we can capitalize. That is, if one bothers to take the time to even listen to their claptrap hate rhetoric. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted May 22, 2014 Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 It's pretty simple. People, wherever they are, whatever color they are, will want to have sex. But they may not want to have babies, or at least not right now. I would certainly prefer contraception to abortiopn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted May 22, 2014 Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 could you provide a link and some evidence to back this up per the forum rules, please. Easily done....not funding condoms does not meet the definition for "crimes against humanity". http://www.icrc.org/applic/ihl/ihl.nsf/ART/585-07?OpenDocument Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted May 22, 2014 Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 Easily done....not funding condoms does not meet the definition for "crimes against humanity". http://www.icrc.org/applic/ihl/ihl.nsf/ART/585-07?OpenDocument Talk about a streeeetch! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted May 22, 2014 Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 It is no secret that the current Harper government and Harper himself is pro-life. That is their choice and view and I respect that fact. What I personally have difficulty with is that the Harper government is "adjusting" our funding of foreign affairs to satisfy the Conservative domestic philosophy. I think that it is disingenuous of the Harper government to avoid Canadian opposition to the Conservative policy on abortion but using Canadian taxpayer funds to support the minority Harper position on abortion. 100% agree. The Harper gov would love to introduce pro-life (and who knows, possibly even anti-contraception) legislation in Canada, but won't because they know it's political suicide. But Africans won't vote in the next election so they're perfectly fine with playing with their lives over personal religious ideology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted May 22, 2014 Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 (edited) The problem is, is that many of your ilk don't seem or want to understand that contraception, and especially abortion is seen as an abomination in many African countries. The adjusting is to their cultural, religious and political philosphy, not ours. #Imperialism "The adjusting is to their cultural, religious and political philosphy, not ours" is a pile of BS. Please provide any evidence whatsoever for this. Also, Africa is a very big place, and there are people there who do use contraception by their own will. Africa isn't one homogenous group, and based on the amount of civil war in the continent, is likely the least homogenous continent in the world. Edited May 22, 2014 by Moonlight Graham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted May 22, 2014 Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 By the way, never did I say that denying Africans condoms is a crime against humanity. Here's what I said: Denying them condoms is almost akin to a crime against humanity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted May 22, 2014 Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 The Harper gov would love to introduce pro-life (and who knows, possibly even anti-contraception) legislation in Canada, but won't because they know it's political suicide. Since he has stated the exact opposite, this falls into the arena of the 'hidden agenda' or 'conspiracy theory'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted May 22, 2014 Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 This thread is suffering from a lack of cites, for example: - Cites on the number of evangelicals in Canada - Especially cites on contraception not being funded by the Canadian government. I just spent 5-10 minutes on the second item and couldn't find anything concrete. The two links provided in the OP do NOT even include the word 'contraception'. Are we discussing something real on this thread ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Guy Posted May 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 I just spent 5-10 minutes on the second item and couldn't find anything concrete. The two links provided in the OP do NOT even include the word 'contraception'. Concrete or not may depend on the individual. When this initiative was first discussed it did not include any form of birth control. I have not found anything since that time to indicate a change in policy. If there is, I would appreciate a link. The following may help; http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2010/03/17/harper_governments_aid_plan_omits_birth_control.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted May 22, 2014 Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 Thanks for the link - it is difficult to find anything on this topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted May 22, 2014 Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 Thanks for the link - it is difficult to find anything on this topic. Very odd, since it is "almost akin" to crimes against humanity ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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