Ontario Budget 2014 -- Election

[Mighty AC]

Teachers are partly babysitters, and partly rote-speakers, following a learning plan they're not really allowed to vary from, and into which they have little input. They follow the lesson plan, follow the marking plan, and thats about it. Oh, yes, and they deal with kids all day. That's the only challenge, but is dealing with kids something so unique they ought to get a very high salary?

You're pretty out of touch on this one. Though, unfortunately some teachers like you describe still exist. I suppose that's true of any profession though.

Personally, I don't see why most school teachers even need a university degree. My experience is that good teachers are those with the knack, with that particular personality and communications skills that enable them to put across their message in a variety of ways and make it interesting while doing so. I don't think you learn that. I think you have it or you don't.

Teachers do need to have a presence. I always say they should be trained like preachers. Those guys can read a crowd and get people motivated to hear their message. I think performance, edutainment skills can be improved upon.

Though, the best teachers are more like facilitators than dispensers of information. Teachers should lecture less and assist/problem solve/motivate/encourage/differentiate more.

[Moonbox]

You basically have to create each weeks lesson plan week to week - the curriculum just tells you what the kids have to know, not how to teach them, or what worksheets to use (which you have to create yourself). So if you're in this position, how do you think it's unrealistic or an exaggeration to be working additional hours every night to create tomorrows lesson plan?

My best friend is a newly hired teacher in Guelph (his third year now teaching grade 6). He creates his lesson plans on Sunday night in an hour or two. There are a ton of available resources for him to draw on, and he most certainly does not have to make all of his worksheets himself.

If you look at the average time a teacher spends actually TEACHING students in class (less than 6), and the fact that the majority of that time involves the kids working on their problems and projects alone or in groups, the idea that it takes 3 hours a night to prepare for it is just ridiculous.

For the record, spending three hours at a table watching TV, hanging out with you and muddling about on the internet with photos etc is not the same as actually working for three hours. Just a thought.

[Mighty AC]

That's what I'm hearing too MCC.

Cuts are going to happen. I guess Ontario just wants to be lied to about it.

I think we're all fine with austerity. Hudak was just an unlikable guy with a horrible plan. He gambled that his base would latch on to something harsh and aggressive sounding, but lost. I hope the PCs can retool and comeback next time with something more refined and accountable.

[Salv]

My best friend is a newly hired teacher in Guelph (his third year now teaching grade 6). He creates his lesson plans on Sunday night in an hour or two. There are a ton of available resources for him to draw on, and he most certainly does not have to make all of his worksheets himself.

If you look at the average time a teacher spends actually TEACHING students in class (less than 6), and the fact that the majority of that time involves the kids working on their problems and projects alone or in groups, the idea that it takes 3 hours a night to prepare for it is just ridiculous.

For the record, spending three hours at a table watching TV, hanging out with you and muddling about on the internet with photos etc is not the same as actually working for three hours. Just a thought.

OK, so let's be fair. Your friend has prior resources to draw from (third time teaching the same grade) and he doesn't make all his worksheets himself (not sure how he does this, maybe some help from a colleague?) - that would definitely make it easier for him than it would for my wife who was in her first year.

Obviously you feel you know that all teachers work their hours at work then just hammer out some worksheets and then have free time - but maybe you can re-evaluate your point of view because I think if you really think about some example scenarios (like the one I laid out) you could see how one hour on Sunday couldn't possibly be enough time to come up with lessons for the week and mark papers. I know my wife has busted her ass this year for her students and works a lot of hours - but I am not unreasonable, I know that a lot of teachers are overpaid ($90,000 is ridiculous) and that if anything, teaching gets easier with years because your material has already been created - you don't need to do as much work.

Teachers get a lot of shit - it's really not that easy of a job, it obviously has it's perks and the pay is absurdly good after you've been working for a number of years - my wife recognizes she has it good, but I really think you're assessment of a teachers work hours is off-base. People complain a lot that the quality of education for children has slipped and it's the people that put in extra hours to create fun and engaging lessons (not just a worksheet) that can change that, but when you paint all teachers with the same brush you really do a disservice to improving our education system. Just a thought.

[The_Squid]

NDP really messed up this time.... They held the balance of power and now they're not even official opposition. Big time screw up.

[waldo]

NDP really messed up this time.... They held the balance of power and now they're not even official opposition. Big time screw up.

just listened to Horwath... what world does she live in? She kept on about some mandate they've received... somehow while losing the balance of power, she actually thinks the NDP will hold some type of significance... that she's really happy to be working towards helping Ontario residents meet their needs. Hey Andrea.... here's a clue: you're still number 3 and now you have no relevance!

[Derek 2.0]

As someone that has no dog in it, and though a small and large “C” conservative but never too impressed by Hudak, I take two things from tonight’s results:

1. Based on this election, and the previous Alberta and BC campaigns, this further confirms my conviction that political polling shares the same level of validity as that of Astrology.

2. PC Premier Davis had Trudeau… Liberal Premier Peterson had Mulroney….Rae had Campbell….Harris had Chrétien…Eves, Paul Martin…….and McGuinty and now Wynne will have Harper for some time to come.

[jacee]

The ghost of Mike Harris is finally gone

And I hope he takes Tom Long with him ... forever.

.

[waldo]

As someone that has no dog in it, and though a small and large “C” conservative but never too impressed by Hudak, I take two things from tonight’s results:

1. Based on this election, and the previous Alberta and BC campaigns, this further confirms my conviction that political polling shares the same level of validity as that of Astrology.

the last Forum poll (2 days ago) had the Liberals in majority range. The last 308 aggregation of all polls didn't have the majority... but it had a Liberal minority and had shown a Liberal majority in a couple of earlier aggregations.

[Derek 2.0]

the last Forum poll (2 days ago) had the Liberals in majority range. The last 308 aggregation of all polls didn't have the majority... but it had a Liberal minority and had shown a Liberal majority in a couple of earlier aggregations.

Perhaps, but from watching some of the coverage (CBC), at the start after polls closing, the mood was that it was expected to be a tight minority either way and not determined until late in the evening or early morning…..It seemed it was over rather fast……AFAIK, nobody predicted this type of shellacking.

[waldo]

Perhaps, but from watching some of the coverage (CBC), at the start after polls closing, the mood was that it was expected to be a tight minority either way and not determined until late in the evening or early morning..It seemed it was over rather fastAFAIK, nobody predicted this type of shellacking.

huh! Perhaps??? I just made reference to a Forum poll (from a couple of days ago) that predicted a Liberal majority. Your CBC reference is with respect to "talking heads"... not pollsters! Of course, polling companies have taken some big hits (as you pointed out concerning the BC/Alberta elections)... perhaps this time, for a few pollsters, a couple of thrown darts hit the Liberal mark!

[Derek 2.0]

huh! Perhaps??? I just made reference to a Forum poll (from a couple of days ago) that predicted a Liberal majority. Your CBC reference is with respect to "talking heads"... not pollsters! Of course, polling companies have taken some big hits (as you pointed out concerning the BC/Alberta elections)... perhaps this time, for a few pollsters, a couple of thrown darts hit the Liberal mark!

Like they say about broken clocks? What were the other polling firms saying? As I said, I don't follow them directly.

[jacee]

Bye bye Hudak!

[waldo]

Like they say about broken clocks? What were the other polling firms saying? As I said, I don't follow them directly.

308 does a fairly good job of presenting an aggregation of what, as you say, 'the other polling firms (were) saying'.

[waldo]

Bye bye Hudak!

not PC (pun intended)!

[Bryan]

2. PC Premier Davis had Trudeau… Liberal Premier Peterson had Mulroney….Rae had Campbell….Harris had Chrétien…Eves, Paul Martin…….and McGuinty and now Wynne will have Harper for some time to come.

It's an interesting pattern isn't it? Ontarians' provincial support is almost always opposite to their federal support. 2015 is looking better all the time!

[Derek 2.0]

It's an interesting pattern isn't it? Ontarians' provincial support is almost always opposite to their federal support. 2015 is looking better all the time!

Wait until sometime this summer, well Ontarionians are at their cottages, for Moody’s to downgrade or threaten to downgrade, Ontario’s credit rating…..Once this takes place I fully expect Wynne to either modify her budget or raise taxes…… we shall see.

[waldo]

Wait until sometime this summer, well Ontarionians are at their cottages, for Moody’s to downgrade or threaten to downgrade, Ontario’s credit rating…..Once this takes place I fully expect Wynne to either modify her budget or raise taxes…… we shall see.

grasshopper, you appear quite sage and learned... even if Moody's already burst your prediction bubble! What's wrong with all those Ontario voters... why didn't they buy into Hudak's austerity forever plan!

[Derek 2.0]

grasshopper, you appear quite sage and learned... even if Moody's already burst your prediction bubble! What's wrong with all those Ontario voters... why didn't they buy into Hudak's austerity forever plan!

No, my “prediction” of further warnings and/or an actual downgrade is based off of Moody’s prior warnings….said warnings, at this point, do not appear to be of concern with the Ontario Liberal government, nor their supporters.

As to Hudak…..I dunno…..I think his personal appeal that is akin with garbage bag water played into that…..and of course third party advertising I’m sure didn’t hurt.

[cybercoma]

Suppose the company that cuts my grass says from now on their employees must have grad school plus three years of special training. Should I now pay them ten times more?Except for a very few higher level high school courses in, for example, science and math, teachers don't really need university. It's just not that complex a job.

Am I supposed to take you seriously when you compare teaching to cutting grass?

[MiddleClassCentrist]

Am I supposed to take you seriously when you compare teaching to cutting grass?

I found this statement humorous.

[WWWTT]

She won because she didn't campaign on reality.

Austerity is coming. The Liberals can't backtrack on the trap budget set for the NDP. But, just watch what happens in the next one... For example, I keep noticing that education funding seems to drop in their future projections. Look for it next time you look at their budget projections.

Bingo Buddy!!!

The pc's were the devil we KNEW!

The liberals are the devil we DON"T KNOW!

Have no idea what the liberals are going to do now that they unexpectedly won.

Look for anti union anti teacher/public sector Hudack like cutbacks!

WWWTT

[WWWTT]

NDP really messed up this time.... They held the balance of power and now they're not even official opposition. Big time screw up.

just listened to Horwath... what world does she live in? She kept on about some mandate they've received... somehow while losing the balance of power, she actually thinks the NDP will hold some type of significance... that she's really happy to be working towards helping Ontario residents meet their needs. Hey Andrea.... here's a clue: you're still number 3 and now you have no relevance!

Hudak=Horwath 2.0

Rosario Marchesie and the other remainding T.O. ONDP MPP's will be very vocal in calling for her head!

But Rosario should have taken my advise and learned how to speak Mandarin. When you depend on your team to knock on doors and every other door in Trinity Spadina is answered by someone saying 你 好, that should be a freekin huge hint!

The ONDP support did go up some, so there are going to be the die hard ass kissing Horwath supporters that will take the bullets for her (ohh I freekin hate them with a passion!) But hopefully, she's gone!

WWWTT

[WWWTT]

Wait until sometime this summer, well Ontarionians are at their cottages, for Moody’s to downgrade or threaten to downgrade, Ontario’s credit rating…..Once this takes place I fully expect Wynne to either modify her budget or raise taxes…… we shall see.

Ahh the final arguing point from the right wing.

The credit rating downgrade!

We all know that we have finally reached the bottom of the debate barrel when this debate point is brought up by the right.

I personally think that this is a last resort favorite from the right because the bankers that set it, are ALL RIGHT WINGER TEA BAGGERS!

Too bad for them that China holds more US debt and the last US recession was caused by a rampant untethered corrupt banking system in the US!

Those Standard and Poors puppet strings don't reach so far anymore hey buddy.

WWWTT

[WWWTT]

It's an interesting pattern isn't it? Ontarians' provincial support is almost always opposite to their federal support. 2015 is looking better all the time!

LOL!

You got to be freekin kidding me?!?!?!

Harper, with his 70 odd Ontario seats probably didn't sleep at all last night!

2015 couldn't come soon enough!

WWWTT