This week in Islam

[Argus]

It's been ten years since Mark Steyn infuriated progressives and Muslims with his book American Alone. He reflects on how much he's gotten right, and how his predictions continue to come true. It is basically Steyn's belief that most of the west is disintegration through selfishness and apathy, not having children, and being replaced by Muslims, whose rapid birth rate compared to the west will inevitably lead to most of the west become Muslim nations over the following decades.

Much of what we loosely call the western world will not survive this century, and much of it will effectively disappear within our lifetimes, including many if not most European countries. There'll probably still be a geographical area on the map marked as Italy or the Netherlands - probably - just as in Istanbul there's still a building known as Hagia Sophia, or St Sophia's Cathedral. But it's not a cathedral; it's merely a designation for a piece of real estate. Likewise, Italy and the Netherlands will merely be designations for real estate.

http://www.steynonline.com/7554/ten-years-and-slightly-less-alone

 

 

[dialamah]

14 minutes ago, Argus said:

Much of what we loosely call the western world will not survive this century, and much of it will effectively disappear within our lifetimes, including many if not most European countries.

Have to admit, I heard the same kind of thing said about the Chinese 20-25 years ago.   At the time, I lived in a semi-rural area in the Cariboo.   

Maybe both predictions are true, eh?   Maybe 50 or 75 years hence, the Chinese and the Arab will be fighting it out.   But as I said to Taxme, when he expressed fear about losing the 'white race', it doesn't really matter to me.   I don't see them as significantly different from ourselves, in terms of their humanness; the difference lies in the color of their skin.    Everything else - love, hate, generosity, vindictiveness, selfishness, selflessness, altruism, psychopathy, hope, despair, goodness, evil - all exist within each of us, personally and culturally.   

In the end, we're all part of the human race; I'd like to see the human race survive, although I suspect we are our own worse enemy in that regard.   

[Argus]

1 hour ago, dialamah said:

Have to admit, I heard the same kind of thing said about the Chinese 20-25 years ago.

 Been to Vancouver lately?

Quote

 I don't see them as significantly different from ourselves, in terms of their humanness; the difference lies in the color of their skin. 

No, the differences lie in how they see the world, through the prism of Islam, a medieval religion whose followers still cling to medieval ways.

Edited October 11, 2016 by Argus

[GostHacked]

On 10/7/2016 at 9:49 PM, Argus said:

Most likely the same as it does now. It hasn't changed much in the last thousand years. Why do you suppose it will radically change in the next forty?

Well on that time scale, we have not been 'civilized' for very long. Just got out of our diapers really.

[GostHacked]

On 9/19/2016 at 0:05 PM, Argus said:

 

What on earth are you talking about? The explosion in New Jersey and Manhattan and the finding of a second bomb in Manhattan was all over every network news show and front page in every newspaper.

I didn't mention it here even though, let's face it, we all knew it would be Muslims, because it wasn't confirmed yet. Now, of course, it has been. Yes, Muslims again.

You've been conditioned to have 'radical muslims' as the go to. Even if the person is not a muslim, it would be your first reaction anyways.

[dialamah]

5 hours ago, Argus said:

 Been to Vancouver lately?

.

Currently live just outside of Vancouver, have lived in Kitsilano, Commercial Drive area, Burnaby near Metrotown, Coquitlam, New West and Richmond.  Was in downtown Vancouver just tonite.

Quote

No, the differences lie in how they see the world, through the prism of Islam, a medieval religion whose followers still cling to medieval ways

As I said, the best and the worst of humanity lives inside all of us.    

[Argus]

16 hours ago, GostHacked said:

You've been conditioned to have 'radical muslims' as the go to. Even if the person is not a muslim, it would be your first reaction anyways.

Conditioned by experience, you mean? Yes, it is naturally my first suspicion. However, I withheld judgement until that was confirmed.

[dialamah]

A North Carolina Muslim family, with two kids born in the United States has decided that Pakistan is safer than the US.   This comes after a year of harassment and death threats in their community, their kids being bullied and beat in school.   The father is an award winning anti-terrorism scientist.   He attributes this harassment directly to the rhetoric of Trump and his followers.  
 

Also, the Islamaphobes are proving they are turning into the terrorists they purport to be 'saving' the West from.

Quote

 

Anti-Muslim hate crimes have surged nationwide. A recent report from the Center for the Study of Hate and Extremism at the California State University, San Bernardino, documented at least 260 hate crimes targeting Muslims in 2015 ― a nearly 80 percent rise from 2014 and the highest annual number of such crimes since 2001. 

So far in 2016, The Huffington Post has documented nearly 290 acts of anti-Muslim violence, discrimination and political speech in the U.S. 

 

 

 

[Guest]

That's a shame.  Surely California or Vermont would be safer than Pakistan for an ISIS hunting scientist? 

[Argus]

5 hours ago, dialamah said:

A North Carolina Muslim family, with two kids born in the United States has decided that Pakistan is safer than the US.   This comes after a year of harassment and death threats in their community, their kids being bullied and beat in school.   The father is an award winning anti-terrorism scientist.   He attributes this harassment directly to the rhetoric of Trump and his followers. 

Really? Now, see, if I was a Muslim in North Carolina and thought it was inhospitable to Muslims I think I'd look for somewhere a little more liberal, like New York or California. Seems pretty odd to just up and leave the country and go to Pakistan, of all places, filled with violence and religious fanaticism. If his kids have grown up in the US and have adopted relatively liberal ideals (compared to Pakistan) they'll be harassed a lot worse. So you'll pardon me if I suspect his motivation.

5 hours ago, dialamah said:

Also, the Islamaphobes are proving they are turning into the terrorists they purport to be 'saving' the West from.

How many Muslims have been murdered by "Islamophobes" in Canada, the US or Europe lately? Got a list? Want to compare it to the terrorism BY Muslims?

[dialamah]

On 10/13/2016 at 0:16 PM, Argus said:

Really? Now, see, if I was a Muslim in North Carolina and thought it was inhospitable to Muslims I think I'd look for somewhere a little more liberal, like New York or California. Seems pretty odd to just up and leave the country and go to Pakistan, of all places, filled with violence and religious fanaticism. If his kids have grown up in the US and have adopted relatively liberal ideals (compared to Pakistan) they'll be harassed a lot worse. So you'll pardon me if I suspect his motivation.

 

So you find it acceptable for a family to be harassed due to their religion, to the point they have to move?   Even if they'd only moved to New York or California, why should they have to move anywhere?   

 

Quote

How many Muslims have been murdered by "Islamophobes" in Canada, the US or Europe lately? Got a list? Want to compare it to the terrorism BY Muslims?

Merely a matter of time:

Quote

 

The arrests were the culmination of an eight-month FBI investigation that took agents "deep into a hidden culture of hatred and violence," Acting U.S. Attorney Tom Beall said.

A complaint unsealed Friday charges Curtis Wayne Allen, 49; Patrick Eugene Stein, 47; and Gavin Wayne Wright, 49, with conspiring to use a weapon of mass destruction. Their first court appearance is Monday.

Prosecutors said the men don't yet have attorneys. Publicly listed phone numbers for the men couldn't immediately be found.

The men are members of a small militia group that calls itself "the Crusaders," and whose members espouse sovereign citizen, anti-government, anti-Muslim and anti-immigrant extremist beliefs, according to the complaint.

The complaint alleges group members chose the target based on their hatred for Muslims, people of Somali descent and immigrants — and out of a desire to inspire other militia groups and "wake people up."

 

 

Edited October 18, 2016 by dialamah
Remove a line; fix a word

[Argus]

1 hour ago, dialamah said:

So you find it acceptable for a family to be harassed due to their religion, to the point they have to move?   Even if they'd only moved to New York or California, why should they have to move anywhere?  

 

No, if I found it acceptable for a family to be harassed due to their religion to the point they have to move I'd have said it's acceptable for a family to be harassed due to their religion to the point they have to move. So how about you deal with what i did say, instead?

Edited October 18, 2016 by Argus

[dialamah]

1 hour ago, Argus said:

 

No, if I found it acceptable for a family to be harassed due to their religion to the point they have to move I'd have said it's acceptable for a family to be harassed due to their religion to the point they have to move. So how about you deal with what i did say, instead?

Your response of "why didn't they move to California or New York" certainly didn't suggest you found it objectionable that they were harassed due to their religion until they had to move.  Instead, you chose to focus on the detail of where they chose to move to.     No doubt if it had been a Christian family being harassed by Muslims, you'd have quickly grasped how wrong that would be.  

I notice you had nothing to say about the American extremists who were fixing to kill themselves a bunch of Muslims.   

[Guest]

2 hours ago, dialamah said:

 

I notice you had nothing to say about the American extremists who were fixing to kill themselves a bunch of Muslims.   

I think the FBI did a good job in making sure these people didn't kill any Muslims.  If only they could stop Muslims killing them.

[Argus]

18 hours ago, dialamah said:

Your response of "why didn't they move to California or New York" certainly didn't suggest you found it objectionable that they were harassed due to their religion until they had to move.

I didn't think civilized people were required to reiterate their often stated beliefs in civility and the rule of law at every occurrence.

And my point was to inject some logic into what seemed an absurd story. "My kids are being harassed as Muslims so I'm going to take my children to live in Pakistan, the home of extremism and violence!". 

It is clear they are not moving to Pakistan because of harassment. They are moving to Pakistan for other reasons and using this as an excuse. But then, since you seem to believe women are less harassed and have more rights in countries like Pakistan and Egypt than in western countries I suppose you wouldn't doubt their claims at all.

[dialamah]

18 minutes ago, Argus said:

I didn't think civilized people were required to reiterate their often stated beliefs in civility and the rule of law at every occurrence.

Really?   You seem to expect that from everyone but yourself, as demonstrated below, when you've absurdly stated that I think women in third-world countries have more rights and are treated better than women in Western countries.

Quote

 

And my point was to inject some logic into what seemed an absurd story. "My kids are being harassed as Muslims so I'm going to take my children to live in Pakistan, the home of extremism and violence!". 

 

Perhaps they simply feel less safe in America than they do in Pakistan, because in Pakistan they aren't hated for the color of their skin or their religion.   Did you note what the father said - they may return to America if Trump does not win the presidency.   Perhaps they figured it would be better to get out before the election in case he did win, and certain of his followers decided that signalled open season on Muslims.  

 

Quote

It is clear they are not moving to Pakistan because of harassment. They are moving to Pakistan for other reasons and using this as an excuse. But then, since you seem to believe women are less harassed and have more rights in countries like Pakistan and Egypt than in western countries I suppose you wouldn't doubt their claims at all.

I've never said that women in Pakistan or Egypt have *more* rights than women in Canada or the US or even the UK.   What I have said is that even Western women find enough to like in those countries that they are willing to live there, permanently - so it can't be the hellhole for women you keep claiming it is.   

 

[Argus]

22 hours ago, dialamah said:

Perhaps they simply feel less safe in America than they do in Pakistan, because in Pakistan they aren't hated for the color of their skin or their religion.  

No, they will be hated for other reasons, in a land where being hated doesn't mean being snubbed and mocked but being set on fire, shot or beheaded.

22 hours ago, dialamah said:

I've never said that women in Pakistan or Egypt have *more* rights than women in Canada or the US or even the UK.   What I have said is that even Western women find enough to like in those countries that they are willing to live there, permanently - so it can't be the hellhole for women you keep claiming it is.   

You have constantly derided every suggestion that women in Muslim countries have less rights or face more sexual harassment on the streets and in their homes than in the West. 

[Guest]

Bullying is a significant problem in schools regardless of religion, skin pigmentation or locale. Though I do expect it is hard to be non-white and non-Christian in the Bible belt. 

It is interesting how similar the thinking in Red State/Donald Trump America is to that in places like Pakistan. They are both cruel, unequal, misogynistic cultures dominated by intolerant mythologies. I can picture a similar situation occurring for a North Carolinian family moving to California for work. Imagine the family fighting with their local public school because a teacher discussed evolution and their boy being beat up for his thoughts on Hispanics and black kids. Mom and dad being disgusted on a daily basis after having to work next to atheists, gays, Jews, Scientologists, electric car owners and even *gasp* vegans. I can totally see the parents discussing a move back to a place where they can be with their "own kind". 

However, as sick and racist and misogynistic and  backwards as Red State culture is, they don't kill apostates and blasphemers or throw acid in the faces of independent women. I wonder if the family being discussed would still consider the move back to Pakistan if they had daughters instead of sons. Pakistan is a country that allows honour killings as long as the rest of the family forgives the murderer. http://www.bbc.com/news/video_and_audio/features/magazine-37720520/37720520?ocid=socialflow_facebook&ns_mchannel=social&ns_campaign=bbcnewsmagazine&ns_source=facebook 

A blue state does seem like a much safer option with far more opportunity than a move back to Pakistan. Though, maybe the discrimination this family experienced will cause them to sympathize with the plight of non-Muslims and women in their homeland and aid in the struggle to reform their culture. We openly voice our disdain for Red State or Trump culture in the West, let's not excuse that same deplorable behaviour elsewhere.

 

Edited October 21, 2016 by Guest

[cybercoma]

1 hour ago, Slick said:

they don't kill apostates and blasphemers or throw acid in the faces of independent women.

Sure, the media doesn't frame it that way but in effect that's exactly what they do when people beat and murder LGBT people or when fathers beat and murder their daughters for hooking up outside of marriage. Religious values definitely play into those decisions, even if they don't shout "God is Great!" when they're doing it.

[Guest]

Just now, cybercoma said:

Sure, the media doesn't frame it that way but in effect that's exactly what they do when people beat and murder LGBT people or when fathers beat and murder their daughters for hooking up outside of marriage. Religious values definitely play into those decisions, even if they don't shout "God is Great!" when they're doing it.

I agree that there are still serious cultural issues associated with Bible Belt/Red State/Trump culture relating to very same problems of misogyny and homophobia. However, you have to admit they are not nearly as severe. 

I'm not making this point, as some do, to condone the evil aspects of Western and Christian culture as I am firmly in the progressive camp striving for less violence and hatred and more choice and equality. There is no us vs them or Christian vs Muslim tribalism in my stating the facts that violence, misogyny and homophobia are, in general, orders of magnitude worse in ME cultures. Failing to recognize or acknowledge this hampers efforts to reform the culture and lends power to fascists. Sure the Christian right has to be called out on their nonsense, but not by pretending that these cultural issues are on the same level.

 

Edited October 21, 2016 by Guest

[cybercoma]

3 minutes ago, Slick said:

I agree that there are still serious cultural issues associated with Bible Belt/Red State/Trump culture relating to very same problems of misogyny and homophobia. However, you have to admit they are not nearly as severe. 

It's certainly not legislated (not anymore like Jim Crow laws), like it is in theocratic tyrannies around the world, but there is a big element of framing here.

[Azhar]

Police identify person of interest in anti-Muslim graffiti case

The graffiti was discovered early Thursday morning and documented on social media, prompting the Minnesota chapter of the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) to call for a hate crime investigation. Jaylani Hussein, CAIR's executive director, said the vandalism is among a number of recent actions targeting Minnesota Muslims.

Quote

Police released these images of a person of interest in a graffiti incident on the University of Minnesota campus. In the incident, a suspect sprayed the word "ISIS" on a Muslim Student Association banner.

 

Text size

 

share

tweet

email

 

Print

 

more

University of Minnesota Police may have a lead on the person who vandalized a sign promoting the Muslim Student Association at the school.

Sometime in the overnight hours, the word “ISIS” was spray-painted on the organization’s sign on the Washington Avenue bridge, which connects the east and west banks of the campus. The acronym is a reference to the Islamic State group.

A surveillance photo snapped at 3:45 a.m., Thursday shows a person wearing a hooded sweatshirt and a backpack walking on the bridge. Police want to talk to that person.

Israeli Ambassador Honored By ‘Anti-Islam Hate Group

The Center for Security Policy, which will be honoring Dermer with a “Freedom Flame Award,” is included in a watch list of hate groups compiled by the Southern Poverty Law Center, the SPLC told the Forward.

Dermer is slated to accept the award a December 13 dinner. Morton Klein, president of the Zionist Organization of America, is also listed as a recipient.

The CSP was founded in 1988 by Frank Gaffney, a former Reagan administration official. According to the SPLC, the group was once “a respected hawkish think-tank focused on foreign affairs” but is now “a conspiracy-oriented mouthpiece for the growing anti-Muslim movement in the United States.”

The CSP has warned against what they say is the threat of sharia, or Islamic religious law, poses to American democracy.

“For the past decade, CSP’s main focus has been on demonizing Islam and Muslims under the guise of national security,” the SPLC writes.

The Anti-Defamation League has also criticized the Center as a promoter of anti-Islamic conspiracy theories..

http://www.startribune.com/u-police-indentify-person-of-interest-in-anti-muslim-graffiti-case/400022321/

http://forward.com/news/353466/israeli-ambassador-honored-by-anti-islam-hate-group/

Edited November 5, 2016 by Azhar

[Azhar]

Two USM student senators resign positions after anti-Muslim graffiti incident

Quote

GORHAM — Two student senators at the University of Southern Maine resigned their positions Friday after students protested how they handled the discovery of anti-Muslim graffiti in the student government offices.

The resignations were announced at an emotional two-hour-plus meeting of the Student Senate, dominated by a string of student speakers demanding that the entire board resign over the incident. About half the seats in the 21-seat Senate are currently vacant.

http://www.pressherald.com/2016/11/04/two-usm-student-senators-resign-positions-after-anti-muslim-graffiti-incident/

FBI joins probe into Saudi student’s fatal beating at UW-Stout

Quote

MENOMONIE, Wis. — The FBI has joined the investigation into the death of a University of Wisconsin-Stout student from Saudi Arabia who was fatally beaten in the city’s entertainment district as bars closed and Halloween revelers headed home early Sunday.

Police have not made an arrest, and have not been able to confirm if Hussain Saeed Alnahdi’s death outside Toppers Pizza was a hate crime, Menomonie Police Chief Eric Atkinson said in a prepared statement Friday afternoon.

“However, we will not dismiss the possibility until the (police department) has concluded the investigation,” the police chief added.

The local police department is using all available resources to investigate incoming leads and video surveillance from the area, Atkinson said. To bolster the investigative team, the Menomonie Police Department partnered with the UW-Stout Police Department and the Dunn County sheriff’s office.

http://www.twincities.com/2016/11/04/fbi-joins-probe-into-saudi-students-fatal-beating-at-uw-stout/

[The_Squid]

Saudi Arabia sentenced an atheist to 10 years in prison and 2000 lashes for the crime of not believing in Allah.

http://www.impactnottingham.com/2016/03/atheism-in-saudi-arabia/

Islam will always be looked on as barbaric and backwards until authorities stop perpetrating these sorts of crimes on their own citizens. 

Edited November 7, 2016 by The_Squid

[eyeball]

It's the authorities that are being backward and barbaric and they'll continue to behave this way so long as we empower them with advanced weapons systems.