This week in Islam

[dialamah]

3 hours ago, Goddess said:

Why not just leave it at that: ridiculous and despicable? 

Because you must "defend" Islam by trying to equate an entire country wanting to execute someone for making fun of Mohammed with a one-off situation that neither the country, nor the mainstream churches in the country would ever go along with.

That's how you constantly "defend" Islam - by trying to make it seem like what Islamic countries are doing, is exactly like what is done in Canada.  It's not. By trying to make it seem like what's happening there is Normal behaviour for an entire country.  It's not.

Just leave it at ridiculous and despicable.

Excuse me that I failed to tailor my words to your exact specification: apparently a specification requiring complete condemnation of Islam and Muslims. 

Excuse me that I find all religious extremists similarly hateful and for using a Canadian example of that.

Excuse me that I highlighted a major difference between Pakistan and Canada, in that Canada currently has a government that isn't cowed by extremists and that does its best to protect minorities. 

Even minorities that a nearly half of Canadians consider culturally and/or religiously unacceptable.  

[DogOnPorch]

1 hour ago, dialamah said:

Excuse me that I failed to tailor my words to your exact specification: apparently a specification requiring complete condemnation of Islam and Muslims. 

Excuse me that I find all religious extremists similarly hateful and for using a Canadian example of that.

Excuse me that I highlighted a major difference between Pakistan and Canada, in that Canada currently has a government that isn't cowed by extremists and that does its best to protect minorities. 

Even minorities that a nearly half of Canadians consider culturally and/or religiously unacceptable.  

 

We have politicians in Canada actively working on bringing in Sharia Law with all the joy *that* brings.

Defender of the Faith...I'd play "What a Mighty Fortress We Have In God" as background music for you...but wrong cult...and Islam frowns upon music and poetry.

Edited November 6, 2018 by DogOnPorch

[Goddess]

16 hours ago, dialamah said:

Excuse me that I failed to tailor my words to your exact specification:

That's rich, coming from you.

16 hours ago, dialamah said:

Excuse me that I find all religious extremists similarly hateful and for using a Canadian example of that.

No, you googled til you found an example of a Canadian to prove that we are exactly the same as Pakistan, to apologize for Islam, to minimize what Muslim countries are doing.  Except your example doesn't do any of that.  You're an apologist for Islam, who doesn't want what goes on in Islamic countries discussed because you feel that if even one Canadian does something that Muslim countries do, then we don't have any right to call them out on their barbarism.

You want everyone to shut up about Islam?  If we did that, people would still believe the earth was flat, witches would still be burned at the stake, black people would still be slaves, Jews would still be burned in ovens, women would have no equal rights and gays would not be winning their own equality.  (Actually that sounds like most Muslim-ruled countries)

Should I continue?  Or just shut up now and let you continue to be an apologist?

Edited November 6, 2018 by Goddess

[dialamah]

Canadian Muslims organize "Rings of Peace" around Synagogues.

It's about the sanctity of life," Khadim told HuffPost Canada by phone. "For everyone on earth, whether you are part of a certain religion or do not practice religion at all, a right to safety is paramount.  It could be a mosque or a synagogue or a nightclub. It doesn't matter. Life is sacred."

[dialamah]

23 hours ago, Goddess said:

Should I continue?  Or just shut up now and let you continue to be an apologist?

OMG.  Of course you should object to practices that are inhuman and barbaric, or merely unkind and stupid.  FGM, terrorism, honor killings, wife beating, inequities in law, homophobic laws and policies all deserve to be harshly criticized.

Where you and your merry band make your mistake is in presenting every misdeed by a Muslim as representative of all Muslims, while claiming acceptable behavior as unusual, out of the norm - or in DoPs case, un-Islamic.

This type of rhetoric is the same type of rhetoric Trump uses to demonize Mexicans.  Like this comment:  They're sending people that have a lot of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing drugs. They're bringing crime. They're rapists. And some, I assume, are good people."

That statement could be changed to "Muslims have a lot of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing wife beaters. They're bringing religious extremism. They're rapists and killers. And some, I assume, are good people."

and it would be exactly the message of the anti-Muslim posters on here.

 

[DogOnPorch]

1 hour ago, dialamah said:

Canadian Muslims organize "Rings of Peace" around Synagogues.

It's about the sanctity of life," Khadim told HuffPost Canada by phone. "For everyone on earth, whether you are part of a certain religion or do not practice religion at all, a right to safety is paramount.  It could be a mosque or a synagogue or a nightclub. It doesn't matter. Life is sacred."

 

What does the Quran say about Jews?

[DogOnPorch]

56 minutes ago, dialamah said:

OMG.  Of course you should object to practices that are inhuman and barbaric, or merely unkind and stupid.  FGM, terrorism, honor killings, wife beating, inequities in law, homophobic laws and policies all deserve to be harshly criticized.

Where you and your merry band make your mistake is in presenting every misdeed by a Muslim as representative of all Muslims, while claiming acceptable behavior as unusual, out of the norm - or in DoPs case, un-Islamic.

This type of rhetoric is the same type of rhetoric Trump uses to demonize Mexicans.  Like this comment:  They're sending people that have a lot of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing drugs. They're bringing crime. They're rapists. And some, I assume, are good people."

That statement could be changed to "Muslims have a lot of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing wife beaters. They're bringing religious extremism. They're rapists and killers. And some, I assume, are good people."

and it would be exactly the message of the anti-Muslim posters on here.

 

 

What does the Quran say about Unbelievers?

[Goddess]

3 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Where you and your merry band make your mistake is in presenting every misdeed by a Muslim as representative of all Muslims

That may be how you "perceive" what is being said, because you are hyper-sensitive to the issue.  

When I'm talking about Islam, I'm talking about mainstream Islam - how it is practiced in all Muslim majority countries and the fundamentalist agenda that is currently being pushed on Muslims all around the world.  That there are individual Muslims who don't agree with or don't practice extremist Islam is obvious.

You often bring up Nazi times to show how white people jumped onto that bandwagon of hate.  The difference between us is that I don't believe Muslims are somehow exceptional people who are immune to following their own crowd down paths of hatred.  I think they're just like the rest of us.  So when I read about anti-semitism growing at astronomical rates all over the world and see Al Qud festivals being held in Canada (and I believe I actually witnessed one of these hate-filled anti-Jew demonstrations but didn't realize what it was at the time), I am concerned about it.  I am also concerned that Muslims In Canada think there's nothing wrong with these demonstrations because it's other religions that are calling them out on it and they are not willingly ending it on their own.

 https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/reevely-ford-promises-to-ban-al-quds-day-protests-somehow

 

Quote

 

Al-Quds Day started in Iran under Ayatollah Khomeini in 1979, which says a fair bit right there. “Al-Quds” is the Arabic for “Jerusalem,” and Al-Quds Day is a conscious response to Israel’s Jerusalem Day, a national holiday to mark Israel’s taking of the city in the 1967 Six-Day War. Always on a Friday at the end of Ramadan, the observance links Muslim religious obligation to support for Iran’s political aspirations in the Middle East. Specifically, its demonization of Israel and determination to evict Jews from East Jerusalem.

Even if Al-Quds Day is packaged as criticism of Israeli government policy, organizers would have to take immense care to keep speakers from spilling over into anti-Semitism. Historically, they have not taken that care.

The speeches vary from year to year but there’s a record of Holocaust denial and warnings about how death comes to all oppressors amid the chants to end Israeli Apartheid, just like Hamas and Hezbollah banners are mixed in with the Palestine flags.

 

I understand that you do not like this being discussed and will use any excuse to justify why this is only a concern to racists and Islamophobes and your new favourite insult - xenophobes.  Sorry, but I'm not waiting until the Jews are in the ovens to say something about this.

 

 

[DogOnPorch]

Just now, Goddess said:

 

I understand that you do not like this being discussed and will use any excuse to justify why this is only a concern to racists and Islamophobes and your new favourite insult - xenophobes.  Sorry, but I'm not waiting until the Jews are in the ovens to say something about this.

 

 

 

As I've pointed out several times...Xenophon...the root of xenophobia...had excellent reason to distrust..."fear"...the Persians.

[dialamah]

@Goddess.  I would probably have more faith in your claims of objectivity and fairmindedness if I had noticed you chastising DoP when he posts about how Muslims are all incipient terrorists, or all lying if they express anything but hatred of Jews or how they must kill unbelievers.  Like the two posts preceeding yours.  But you don't:  you only chastise those who say positive things about Muslims, even when they condemn the same behaviors you condemn.  

By the way, its nice to know authorities are going to take some action on anti-Semitism on al-quds day.  I support that, just as I support action being taken against Imams preaching violence or death to Jews.  Or anyone else.

[Goddess]

"Rings of Peace" is a great gesture, but frankly it's the easy way to be against anti-semitism if you're a Muslim.  The hard way would be to take a stand against things like these Al Qud demonstrations and imams who preach hate.

And Dia, don't even start with me about how I don't have any right to say that - because I am a person who took a stand against what was going on in my church and I am very well aware of how difficult that is to go against your community and what the costs are.

[Goddess]

4 minutes ago, dialamah said:

I would probably have more faith in your claims of objectivity and fairmindedness if I had noticed you chastising DoP when he posts about how Muslims are all incipient terrorists, or all lying if they express anything but hatred of Jews or how they must kill unbelievers.

I understand.  Because I feel the same way about your claims of objectivity and fairmindedness if I had noticed you chastising Altai when it posts all its shit.

 

Edited November 7, 2018 by Goddess

[Goddess]

7 minutes ago, dialamah said:

you only chastise those who say positive things about Muslims

nevermind.  I just figured out what you're trying to do here.

Edited November 7, 2018 by Goddess

[DogOnPorch]

Notice that dialamah is afraid to quote the Quran re: my questions.

I wonder why? It's the Religion of Peace!

[Goddess]

6 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

Notice that dialamah is afraid to quote the Quran re: my questions.

I wonder why? It's the Religion of Peace!

She can't differentiate when people are talking about Islam in general and insists you only speak about individual Muslims.  Then when you talk about individual cases, she insists they don't represent all Muslims, which we all already know.  Basically, she just doesn't want anything bad in Islam talked about.  

[dialamah]

8 minutes ago, Goddess said:

I understand.  Because I feel the same way about your claims of objectivity and fairmindedness if I had noticed you chastising Altai when it posts all its shit.

 

I ignore Altai, Taxme, DoP, Betsy for the most part.  They are so divorced from reality that its pointless to engage with them; not to mention Altai has me on ignore so whats the point of trying to discuss with her?  Scribblet, Capricorn are sometimes interesting.  What you and Argus have going for you is that you are articulate, smart, and outside of the Muslim issue, reasonably on-target.   So I mostly respond to you two. 

[dialamah]

12 minutes ago, Goddess said:

nevermind.  I just figured out what you're trying to do here.

Now I'm wondering what you've "figured out" and if it really has anything to do with what "I'm trying to do". 

[DogOnPorch]

1 minute ago, Goddess said:

She can't differentiate when people are talking about Islam in general and insists you only speak about individual Muslims.  Then when you talk about individual cases, she insists they don't represent all Muslims, which we all already know.  Basically, she just doesn't want anything bad in Islam talked about.  

 

Just to be clear: the Quran claims the Jews are the vilest of creatures and cursed by Allah...while Unbelievers are to be fought (physically) until all religion (including dirty atheists) are for Allah.

[DogOnPorch]

4 minutes ago, dialamah said:

I ignore Altai, Taxme, DoP, Betsy for the most part.  They are so divorced from reality that its pointless to engage with them; not to mention Altai has me on ignore so whats the point of trying to discuss with her?  Scribblet, Capricorn are sometimes interesting.  What you and Argus have going for you is that you are articulate, smart, and outside of the Muslim issue, reasonably on-target.   So I mostly respond to you two. 

 

Putting me on ignore only puts you in the dark. Not me. I still can respond to posts and folks can read them...and it's telling that you can not defend your cult vs simple questions.

Edited November 7, 2018 by DogOnPorch

[DogOnPorch]

3 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Now I'm wondering what you've "figured out" and if it really has anything to do with what "I'm trying to do". 

 

You're here to defend Islam by not answering questions.

[dialamah]

3 minutes ago, Goddess said:

Basically, she just doesn't want anything bad in Islam talked about.  

My goodness.  I can condemn patriarchy, homophobia, human rights abuses practiced in Muslim countries till the cows come home, but if I object to people who say things like "Muslims are instructed to kill non-believers; its in the Koran and if they aren't killing non-believers, they aren't Muslim", you claim I "don't want anything bad about Islam discussed."

Geez.  Women in Alberta can be dumb as rocks sometimes.

[DogOnPorch]

1 minute ago, dialamah said:

My goodness.  I can condemn patriarchy, homophobia, human rights abuses practiced in Muslim countries till the cows come home, but if I object to people who say things like "Muslims are instructed to kill non-believers; its in the Koran and if they aren't killing non-believers, they aren't Muslim", you claim I "don't want anything bad about Islam discussed."

Geez.  Women in Alberta can be dumb as rocks sometimes.

 

Oskar Schindler was a good man. Saved lots of Jews with his efforts. Has a tree planted in Israel for him...

Still a Nazi.

[Goddess]

3 minutes ago, dialamah said:

I can condemn patriarchy, homophobia, human rights abuses practiced in Muslim countries till the cows come home,

Yeah, YOU can.  But apparently the rest of us are not allowed to.  Because every time we do, you show up name-calling and insisting that we talk instead about what Christians did 500 years ago.

[dialamah]

5 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

Just to be clear: the Quran claims the Jews are the vilest of creatures and cursed by Allah...while Unbelievers are to be fought (physically) until all religion (including dirty atheists) are for Allah.

And just to be clear, the Koran also says Jews are people of the book and are to be treated with respect and allowed to practice their religion in peace.  The koran also says that murder is wrong, terroism is wrong, that jihad is an internal struggle of faith.  This is what moderate Muslims, such as the guy in the cite I provided this morning, use to guide their lives to live peacefully with others.

That you prefer the terrorist's and extremist's interpretation of the Koran and use that to demonize Muslims says a lot about you, none of it good.

[dialamah]

2 minutes ago, Goddess said:

Yeah, YOU can.  But apparently the rest of us are not allowed to.  Because every time we do, you show up name-calling and insisting that we talk instead about what Christians did 500 years ago.

Thats because you seem to think posting a news story and then saying "Muslim men can't bear to have a woman say no to them" isn't broadbrushing an entire religion.  Or DoP claiming that only the violent and hateful bits of the koran are "valid" doesn't demonize Muslims.