Cliven Bundy: deadbeat rancher or media hero?

[kimmy]

So, this rancher named Cliven Bundy decided some 20 years back that he didn't want to pay grazing fees anymore for grazing his herd on federal land. He now owes the federal government somewhere over $1.2 million dollars in unpaid fees. He claims he won't pay because he doesn't recognize that the federal government even exists. He claims to be a citizen of Nevada, not a citizen of America.

But he has been turned into a media hero by people who don't like government. Sean Hannity of Fox News in particular devoted plenty of coverage to Bundy. In the estimation of some, Bundy is a blue-collar hero standing up to Big Government, apparently.

In another thread, Michael posted this excellent message about the Nevada ranch nonsense:

How is that the MSM getting it wrong ? That was my question, and the response is another dodge by you. My question about the MSM remains unanswered. So far with this one post, you've misunderstood MY point, and dodged my two questions to you.

I don't agree. Kimmy quoted the excerpt above, and I don't see how racist statements can be redeemed by something that he said elsewhere in his "full length video". How long is it ? Do you really think I would not call it racist if I saw the full thing ? That's a pretty confident statement you're making about what I would call racist.

Ok, so you posted here... let's see...

Well, I can't see into his heart but for sure he closes by saying he often wonders if that race would be better off being slaves. I won't judge him, beyond my assessment that he's a stupid old man, but of course that comes off as racist.

Maybe. The Harry Reid thing sounds like an urban legend to me. Let's see...

Sigh... here it is:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/conspiracy/nevada.asp

The stupid old man at the centre of this was on camera saying that he does knowledge that the US and A even exist, so how is this about patriotism ? This is about a stupid old man who won't pay his bills, and a bunch of disenfranchised conspiracy people without principles or reason (eg. thinking this is somehow patriotic) who rally behind him because they're pissed off and they don't know why.

Seriously, this whole issue and your interest in it is just head-scratchingly bizarre on all sides.

-k

Edited April 26, 2014 by Charles Anthony
changed title; old title was "Deadbeat rancher becomes media hero"

[Michael Hardner]

It really makes me sad that the disaffected can now marshall new media to create followings for these strange causes. It's a consequence of the Balkanization of new media - rather than speaking truth to power, we're speaking nonsense to power.

I suppose we have to trust that reasonable people will just ignore these sideshows.

[kimmy]

rather than speaking truth to power, we're speaking nonsense to power.

What a delightful turn of phrase.

-k

[Michael Hardner]

What a delightful turn of phrase.

-k

Thank you for the compliment. I hope that this all settles out into something that we can all at least understand. All that I understand about these things so far is that they are popular with the many disenfranchised people that are around today.

[bush_cheney2004]

It really makes me sad that the disaffected can now marshall new media to create followings for these strange causes.

Why does it make you "sad" ? Based on previous posts, one would think that you would welcome expanded "democratization" through the "new media".

[Michael Hardner]

Why does it make you "sad" ? Based on previous posts, one would think that you would welcome expanded "democratization" through the "new media".

For me, it's both. I'm sad because these disaffected types seem to get drawn into dopey lost causes like this. What happened to 9-12 day and Glenn Beck ?

[bush_cheney2004]

For me, it's both. I'm sad because these disaffected types seem to get drawn into dopey lost causes like this. What happened to 9-12 day and Glenn Beck ?

I think that's the whole point...who needs them ? I am trying to reconcile outcries (not necessarily from you) over U.S. Supreme Court rulings favoring 'big money" and free speech with the disdain expressed over these lesser gods getting their own 15 minutes in the news cycle.

[GostHacked]

This was some of the early reporting on this matter.

First it was about the turtles.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/04/16/feds-accused-leaving-trail-wreckage-after-nevada-ranch-standoff/

The dispute between the feds and the Bundy family has been going on for years; they say he owes more than $1.1 million in unpaid grazing fees -- and long ago revoked his grazing rights over concern for a federally protected tortoise. They sent officials to round up his livestock following a pair of federal court orders last year giving the U.S. government the authority to impound the cattle.

If you pay the fee, then the risk to the turtle is negated? Are people that stupid to buy that? So what is the real deal here then? Is it just simply about unpaid fees? Or is there something more?

http://abcnews.go.com/US/nevada-cattle-rancher-wins-range-war-feder...

Bundy claims his herd of roughly 900 cattle have grazed on the land along the riverbed near Bunkerville, 80 miles northeast of Las Vegas, since 1870 and threatened a "range war" against the BLM on the Bundy Ranch website after one of his sons was arrested while protesting the removal of the cattle.

"I have no contract with the United States government," Bundy said. "I was paying grazing fees for management and that's what BLM was supposed to be, land managers and they were managing my ranch out of business, so I refused to pay."

The federal government had countered that Bundy "owes the American people in excess of $1 million " in unpaid grazing fees and "refuses to abide by the law of land, despite many opportunities over the last 20 years to do so."

However, today the BLM said it would not enforce a court order to remove the cattle and was pulling out of the area.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/12/us/nevada-rancher-rangers-cattle-show...

"Based on information about conditions on the ground, and in consultation with law enforcement, we have made a decision to conclude the cattle gather because of our serious concern about the safety of employees and members of the public," said Neil Kornze, director of the U.S. Bureau of Land Management.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/04/12/federal-agency-pulls-bac...

The safety concern was something trotted out here too.

The Bureau of Land Management announced Saturday that it has concluded its mission to remove illegal cattle from a rural Nevada range after a tense week-long standoff with a rancher and militia supporters.

"Based on information about conditions on the ground, and in consultation with law enforcement, we have made a decision to conclude the cattle gather because of our serious concern about the safety of employees and members of the public," the statement read.

Bureau officials had dismantled designated protest areas supporting rancher Cliven Bundy, who they say refuses to comply with the "same laws that 16,000 public land ranchers do every year."

The Harry Reid connection.

http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/fox-and-friends/blog/2014/04/16/another-reid-connection-ranch-stand-blm-director-neil-kornze-veteran-harry-reids

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid said little as federal agents seized and then released cattle last week from the Bundy ranch, but there is little doubt that the highly charged episode was threatening to become a political headache for the Nevada Democrat.

The Bureau of Land Management is headed by former longtime Reid aide Neil Kornze, who was confirmed by the Senate as BLM director on Tuesday, just as federal authorities descended on the cattle ranch outside Mesquite, Nev.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2014/04/16/why-is-us-senator-harry-reid-so-concerned-with-local-nevada-rancher/

Government appeared completely uninterested in backing down for days on end…and completely unconcerned with instigating a deadly confrontation like Waco or Ruby Ridge. Then suddenly Senator Reid’s involvement was brought up by conservative web sites across the Internet. INSTANTLY, out of the blue, within hours of Reid’s name being attached to the raid, the BLM decided to back down, pack up and walk away. Don’t you think that this timing was a tad too coincidental?

It has been pointed out by journalists intent on covering for Reid that a $5 billion Chinese solar project backed by Reid was recently shelved. But what they forgot to mention is Reid’s involvement in multiple solar and wind projects across the Nevada desert. Only days ago, Senator Reid was featured in a photo at a groundbreaking ceremony for a new solar project. Where is that project located? Just 35 miles from the Bundy ranch in Bunkerville, Nevada.

There is more to this than the media is telling you. But that is the 'new normal'.

[Michael Hardner]

I think that's the whole point...who needs them ?

I agree - we don't need them. But people keep falling for these false prophets.

I am trying to reconcile outcries (not necessarily from you) over U.S. Supreme Court rulings favoring 'big money" and free speech with the disdain expressed over these lesser gods getting their own 15 minutes in the news cycle.

It's money that reconciles it, and there's some unknown equation in there that equates money with attention and power.

[Michael Hardner]

There is more to this than the media is telling you. But that is the 'new normal'.

I have a hard enough time figuring out what you're telling me.

[bush_cheney2004]

...It's money that reconciles it, and there's some unknown equation in there that equates money with attention and power.

Such attention more often equates with political infotainment. The real story with this "deadbeat rancher" is how much the Feds have learned from Ruby Ridge and Waco. So he has guns and owes some grazing fees...big deal.

Edited April 26, 2014 by bush_cheney2004

[Michael Hardner]

Such attention more often equates with political infotainment.

Yessir.

The real story with this "deadbeat rancher" is how much the Feds have learned from Ruby Ridge and Waco. So he owes some grazing fees...big deal.

Yes, those slack jawed yokels standing there in the back of the shot, between the racist Wilford Brimley and the Sierra Mountains, have Obama and Janet Reno's hard lessons to thank for their lives - good point. Pushing their women and children to the front was a trump card to play.

[eyeball]

Such attention more often equates with political infotainment.

The real story with this "deadbeat rancher" is how much the Feds have learned from Ruby Ridge and Waco. So he has guns and owes some grazing fees...big deal.

Actually the real story could be the lessons these nuts have learned from Bunkerville...stand your ground and the guvmint backs off. Infotaining indeed.

[waldo]

I agree - we don't need them. But people keep falling for these false prophets.

of course, "people" are both your earlier emphasized 'disaffected types' directly engaged as well as the (easily) influenced that certain segments of the media caters to. The disaffected are already there; they're ripe for the false prophets. Some component within the media target eventually reaches that disaffected level... something carries them to that level where they seek out the false prophets. What degree of influence does the ever pervasive media hold here, particularly that segment of the media that caters to the intellectual lightweights, those so easily manipulated? In this particular wingnuts case, we had 'the usual suspects' playing up his 'libetarian roots'... on the media side led by FoxNews' Hannity, all helping to fuel 'junior-achieving militia wanabes into making the libetarian leap!

[Michael Hardner]

of course, "people" are both your earlier emphasized 'disaffected types' directly engaged as well as the (easily) influenced that certain segments of the media caters to.

Yes, it's true.

In this particular wingnuts case, we had 'the usual suspects' playing up his 'libetarian roots'... on the media side led by FoxNews' Hannity, all helping to fuel 'junior-achieving militia wanabes into making the libetarian leap!

And you get a little peek behind the curtain when FOX drops these things. Like when the Rancher starts talking about "the Negroes" or when Glenn Beck brings the anti-Semites on the air with him, they cut the cord pretty quickly.

[The_Squid]

Fox News loves the racist nutbar!

[TimG]

Some good commentary from a Libertarian blogger (posted before Bundy made his racist comments):

http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2014/04/bundy-ranch-the-wrong-hill-for-libertarians-to-be-dying-on.html

But Bundy is still wrong. He is trying to exercise property rights over land that is not his. The owner gave him free use for years and then changed its policy and raised his rent, and eventually tried to evict him. Conservatives and libertarians don't accept the argument that long-time tenancy on private land gives one quasi-ownership rights (though states like California and cities like New York seem to be pushing law in this direction), so they should not accept it in this case. You can't defend property rights by trashing property rights. Had this been a case of the government using its fiat power to override a past written contractual obligation, I would have been sympathetic perhaps, but it is not.

[Shady]

Like I've already stated, the government was completely in the wrong to send in what was essentially a SWAT team over a tax issue. It's irrelevant whether this Bundy fellow is a saint, or the worst person in the world. You garnish wages, you put liens on property, etc. I don't know why people get so distracted by shiny objects, such as his ignorant views on anything, nevermind just race. Who he is is irrelevant. What he's done in terms of not paying fees, and the BLM's ridiculous response is the issue.

[Argus]

I think that's the whole point...who needs them ? I am trying to reconcile outcries (not necessarily from you) over U.S. Supreme Court rulings favoring 'big money" and free speech with the disdain expressed over these lesser gods getting their own 15 minutes in the news cycle.

Freaks being gawked at is nothing new. What is relatively new is freaks being admired and portrayed as great Americans by senators and high media figures.

Seriously, how do United States Senators, especially those considering running for President, somehow embrace a guy who says he doesn't recognize the US even exists, much less the right of its government to rule.

[Argus]

If you pay the fee, then the risk to the turtle is negated? Are people that stupid to buy that?

How about if you charge a fee a lot fewer people will do it, and if you don't charge a fee the land will be overrun with ranchers grazing their cattle?

[eyeball]

Freaks being gawked at is nothing new. What is relatively new is freaks being admired and portrayed as great Americans by senators and high media figures.

Seriously, how do United States Senators, especially those considering running for President, somehow embrace a guy who says he doesn't recognize the US even exists, much less the right of its government to rule.

Bundy is somehow a means to an ends.

[Argus]

Like I've already stated, the government was completely in the wrong to send in what was essentially a SWAT team over a tax issue. It's irrelevant whether this Bundy fellow is a saint, or the worst person in the world.

Seems to me there have been topics here about the militarization of police, and the overuse of swat teams to serve routine warrants and even raid barbershops operating without licenses. In this case, there were anti-government types there with guns. Bringing a SWAT teams seems entirely appropriate.

[eyeball]

In Canada they probably would have sent in the army.

[bush_cheney2004]

Freaks being gawked at is nothing new. What is relatively new is freaks being admired and portrayed as great Americans by senators and high media figures.

Nope...it's not new at all. U.S. media has fawned over "freaks" for decades. The more outrageous the better. Politicians smelling an opportunity jump on board too.

[On Guard for Thee]

Hey has anybody found a link to Stephen Colbert's "ballad of cliven bundy", I hear it's pretty funny but the links I have so far won't work in Canada for whatever reason. I love the way Fox news has played it, conservative laughing stock......again!