Reasons why women are atheists....

overthere · April 1, 2014

Faith does not require reason or logic or evidence or facts. It is a simple believe that cannot be substantially proven without some form of evidence. So even if you develop those beliefs over your lifetime, they are simply still just your individual believes and not something that is not genuinely common among everyone. You can claim to absolutely know the answer. But can you absolutely convey that knowledge to someone else in a way that there would be no question about the claim? That would seem to be the hard part.

Believing you have the answer is not the same as knowing you have the answer. Since I cannot know that answer in this lifetime (perhaps the next if there is one) then I cannot make the claim.

I agree that faith requires no facts. It is pretty compelling for many though, since a fairly compelling logical case can be made by a single act of faith. " in the beginning, God created the heavens and the Earth". Believe that an omnipotent, benevolent being a) exists and b ) did it all in 7 dasys and a lot can flow from that. Same with the mantra : Jesus died for my sins"..

Atheism does require reason, logic or facts and the creation myth presented in Geneesis starts to look something far less than literal..

Is it reasonable that the Earth is 6,000 years old? Is it reasoinable that 72 virgins await me in a future paradise?

But here is the rub in what you say: not knowing the answer does still permit you to reject other answers as being extremely unlikely. It's all probabilities- and that applies as much to hard science as it does to matters of faith..

bleeding heart · April 1, 2014

Just so.

GostHacked · April 2, 2014

But here is the rub in what you say: not knowing the answer does still permit you to reject other answers as being extremely unlikely.

The answer is unknowable. Meaning there is not much of a possibility, let a long a probability of the faithful being correct. You'd have to get a universal religion in order to have a common stance among the faithful. But since that is not the case, not every religion can be right. Someone has got something wrong. Those are the kinds of things that atheists take into consideration.

Even if I happen to go with Christianity, that means I will be believing in a specific god. And I will be an atheist towards other proposed gods. I can believe in A god, but not THEIR god. And then we have wars over things like that.

cybercoma · April 3, 2014

My stab at religion earlier aside, I don't think the thread title makes much sense. People aren't atheists for a reason. You don't BECOME an atheist, you become religious. Nobody is born with religion.

GostHacked · April 3, 2014

My stab at religion earlier aside, I don't think the thread title makes much sense. People aren't atheists for a reason. You don't BECOME an atheist, you become religious. Nobody is born with religion.

I can get behind that. Compare it to how children are not born with prejudices.

overthere · April 3, 2014

The answer is unknowable. Meaning there is not much of a possibility, let a long a probability of the faithful being correct. You'd have to get a universal religion in order to have a common stance among the faithful. But since that is not the case, not every religion can be right. Someone has got something wrong. Those are the kinds of things that atheists take into consideration.

Even if I happen to go with Christianity, that means I will be believing in a specific god. And I will be an atheist towards other proposed gods. I can believe in A god, but not THEIR god. And then we have wars over things like that.

No, that is not really what atheists take into consideration, but it is certainly how agnostics justify the fence sitting at the heart of their position.

Again: not knowing the answers with 100% certainty does not in any way validate other answers. It's unknowable, therefore anything is possible....

Nope, not in my world .

Mighty AC · April 3, 2014

My stab at religion earlier aside, I don't think the thread title makes much sense. People aren't atheists for a reason. You don't BECOME an atheist, you become religious. Nobody is born with religion.

True but once indoctrinated a deprogramming process must occur. Then people do become atheists. I am always interested in what stimulates people to question and drop irrational beliefs. In this case there is an odd situation where many religious sects are misogynistic yet still attract more female than male members.

Edited April 3, 2014 by Mighty AC

Mighty AC · April 3, 2014

I wonder if religious demographics by age and gender can be found. Religiosity is proportional to age, with older generations being more apt to believe than younger. Women also make up a larger percentage of the population in general and tend to outlive men. Maybe population statistics can explain part of the phenomenon. I would also guess that women are more attracted to the social aspect of church groups.

overthere · April 3, 2014

I wonder if religious demographics by age and gender can be found. Religiosity is proportional to age, with older generations being more apt to believe than younger. Women also make up a larger percentage of the population in general and tend to outlive men. Maybe population statistics can explain part of the phenomenon. I would also guess that women are more attracted to the social aspect of church groups.

I think there is a much more compelling reason(than demographics, gender or the social aspects of churches) why organized religions tend to have older congregations.)

Many people spend at least some time pondering the big mysteries, most prominently the one: "why am I here".

They come up short on answers that make sense. As you get older, having an answer of any sort gives more comfort than having no answers at all to explain it all.

Enter religion: every religion has a set of answers that cover all those life situations that create the crises that cause us to hurt and to wonder.....

People adopt the set of answers that eliminates the disturbing questions. It kicks in about the time you have other big life changes, like having kids. It's also the time that people often return to a church they knew as children and left. The churches all know this, which is why they work very hard on indoctrinating children. Without prejudice or judgement, the Catholic faith has mastered this part: hook them young and they never really leave.

The_Squid · April 3, 2014

My stab at religion earlier aside, I don't think the thread title makes much sense. People aren't atheists for a reason. You don't BECOME an atheist, you become religious. Nobody is born with religion.

I don't disagree. I tried to change it shortly after I posted it, but you can't edit titles.

The title was paraphrasing what the lunatic minister was saying about women being atheists because they are posessed or been sexually assaulted.

Edited April 3, 2014 by The_Squid

GostHacked · April 3, 2014

No, that is not really what atheists take into consideration, but it is certainly how agnostics justify the fence sitting at the heart of their position.

One cannot be on any side of a fence if they do not know. Schrodinger's cat is a great example of explaining agnosticism. Both states exist at the same time. The cat is dead, the cat is alive. But without looking into the box, there is no way anyone can verify what state the cat is in, if there is a cat in the box in the first place.

Again: not knowing the answers with 100% certainty does not in any way validate other answers. It's unknowable, therefore anything is possible....

Nope, not in my world .

So if it us unknowable, then you have stepped into the realm of the agnostic. You can have faith in a certain thing, but can you know that certain thing well enough to claim that you have absolute knowledge that your stance is correct?

And you are right, anything IS possible. But what is probable is what we have to deal with. And probabilities are based on experiences of the past. It's possible a stork brought me to my parents, but it is more probably that my parents had sex in the back of a 1969 Olds 442 and nine months later I was born.

Edited April 3, 2014 by GostHacked

-1=e^ipi · April 4, 2014

Religiosity is proportional to age, with older generations being more apt to believe than younger.

You are using the word proportional incorrectly. Please use correlated instead.

Mighty AC · April 4, 2014

The churches all know this, which is why they work very hard on indoctrinating children. Without prejudice or judgement, the Catholic faith has mastered this part: hook them young and they never really leave.

I think this part is key. Declining religious participation despite an aging population seems to suggest that, for the most part, people do not turn to religion unless they were indoctrinated as children.

WestCoastRunner · April 5, 2014

I think this part is key. Declining religious participation despite an aging population seems to suggest that, for the most part, people do not turn to religion unless they were indoctrinated as children.

Religions today continue to seek out single parents with kids. I suppose they feel they are the most vulnerable and easier to indoctrinate and of course, they get the children involved.

Mighty AC · April 5, 2014

Religious groups in my area are definitely seeking out single parent families, but they are doing so by providing useful services. They are building indoor playgrounds, offering dirt cheap daycare, running breakfast programs, etc. These programs are accompanied by church flyers and pressure to join the flock but they are vital services nonetheless. I appreciate the fact that those who truly believe should feel the need to save others, it would be unethical not to. However, I just hope we can one day keep the community groups, fellowship and charity, while dropping the mysticism and fairy tales.

bleeding heart · April 6, 2014

Given some of the conversational topics here, I think the notion of what we mean by "agnostic" needs to be navigated....because it means different things to different...agnostics.

For example, I am an atheist. I also consider myself an agnostic...and all reasonable atheists as agnostic.

But of course, we're only "agnostic" in the very strictest sense...in the cases where an argument over the matter becomes, frankly, a little pedantic.

That is, I am as "agnostic" about Muhammad's confabs with Allah as I am about the Divinity of the Christ.

In other words, if convincing evidence is presented, I will hope to be reasonable and open-minded and honest enough to say, "Cool, I was wrong."

But, as I think is clear enough, for all intents and purposes, this "agnostic" is actually "atheist."

that said, the only agnosticism I can have any genuine respect for is the pan-agnosticism to which I have alluded.

If one's "agnosticism" constitutes the possibility of his or her native cultural dominant religious beliefs to be possibly correct...with all others omitted....well, that's closer to religious faith than to genuine agnosticism...isn't it?

that is, if you are "agnostic" about the Judeo-Christian gospels....but a firm disbeliever in Hinduism, the Homeric gods, et al...then...what the hell, man? .

carepov · April 9, 2014

Religious groups in my area are definitely seeking out single parent families, but they are doing so by providing useful services. They are building indoor playgrounds, offering dirt cheap daycare, running breakfast programs, etc. These programs are accompanied by church flyers and pressure to join the flock but they are vital services nonetheless. I appreciate the fact that those who truly believe should feel the need to save others, it would be unethical not to. However, I just hope we can one day keep the community groups, fellowship and charity, while dropping the mysticism and fairy tales.

Can you tell me more about this pressure? Is it real real or are you making assumptions?

cybercoma · April 9, 2014

Given some of the conversational topics here, I think the notion of what we mean by "agnostic" needs to be navigated....

Again!? :wacko:

Mighty AC · April 9, 2014

Can you tell me more about this pressure? Is it real real or are you making assumptions?

It's real and comes in the form of friendly but direct conversations encouraging families to attend the church services along with an endless stream of flyers. The flyers advertise the church, sometimes specific sermon topics or ways "god" can improve various aspects of people lives from finances, to health, to marriage quality, etc.

Mighty AC · April 9, 2014

Again!?

From what I understand atheism is really just another religion with followers who have clearly invited demons to enter through their immoral behaviour. Agnostics are confused about the almighty, but tend to believe in ghosts and horoscopes. I'm fairly sure that both groups are supported by the homosexual agenda.

bleeding heart · April 9, 2014

Exactly, you nailed it.

overthere · April 9, 2014

Given some of the conversational topics here, I think the notion of what we mean by "agnostic" needs to be navigated....because it means different things to different...agnostics.

For example, I am an atheist. I also consider myself an agnostic...and all reasonable atheists as agnostic.

But of course, we're only "agnostic" in the very strictest sense...in the cases where an argument over the matter becomes, frankly, a little pedantic.

That is, I am as "agnostic" about Muhammad's confabs with Allah as I am about the Divinity of the Christ.

In other words, if convincing evidence is presented, I will hope to be reasonable and open-minded and honest enough to say, "Cool, I was wrong."

But, as I think is clear enough, for all intents and purposes, this "agnostic" is actually "atheist."

that said, the only agnosticism I can have any genuine respect for is the pan-agnosticism to which I have alluded.

If one's "agnosticism" constitutes the possibility of his or her native cultural dominant religious beliefs to be possibly correct...with all others omitted....well, that's closer to religious faith than to genuine agnosticism...isn't it?

that is, if you are "agnostic" about the Judeo-Christian gospels....but a firm disbeliever in Hinduism, the Homeric gods, et al...then...what the hell, man? .

Agnostic definition: A person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God.

Translation: I'll do anything to avoid thinking and/or decding what I believe.

The_Squid · April 9, 2014

Agnostic definition: A person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God.

Translation: I'll do anything to avoid thinking and/or decding what I believe.

I disagree... I'm agnostic... and also an atheist.

I don't know whether there are gods (agnostic) but I don't believe that there are any (atheist) due to the complete lack of any evidence showing their existence.

I am the same for sasquatch... I don't know for certain that there are none... but I don't believe the stories. Although recently my stance on not believing has softened slightly with some stories I've heard... it's made me go "hmmmmm... nawww... can't be! I still don't believe it". Rather than simply saying "No f'n way there are sasquatches"!

carepov · April 10, 2014

It's real and comes in the form of friendly but direct conversations encouraging families to attend the church services along with an endless stream of flyers. The flyers advertise the church, sometimes specific sermon topics or ways "god" can improve various aspects of people lives from finances, to health, to marriage quality, etc.

It sounds a lot like those people at the grocery store trying to convince me to get their credit card so I can accumulate more bonus points.

The indoor playgrounds, cheap daycare, breakfast programs, etc... seem like a great service to me. Why aren't these services funded by the city/province?

Mighty AC · April 10, 2014

It sounds a lot like those people at the grocery store trying to convince me to get their credit card so I can accumulate more bonus points.

Exactly! Subscribers are profitable.

The indoor playgrounds, cheap daycare, breakfast programs, etc... seem like a great service to me. Why aren't these services funded by the city/province?

They are great services. So are the services provided by Doctors Without Borders, Oxfam, The Nature Conservancy, Amnesty International, Planned Parenthood, various food banks, etc. Why aren't all of these services funded by tax dollars? My guess is there is more need than our system can meet.