Moderating Mapleafweb's Moderation

[GostHacked]

When it was one thread about creationism, no problem. But then it became two, three, and then more. Betsy did not like the replies from the posters because they did not agree with her worldview. So each time trying a new thread to get the debate in her direction. A fail every time. I would consider the amount of threads related to that one topic as spam.

[Argus]

When it was one thread about creationism, no problem. But then it became two, three, and then more. Betsy did not like the replies from the posters because they did not agree with her worldview. So each time trying a new thread to get the debate in her direction. A fail every time. I would consider the amount of threads related to that one topic as spam.

To be fair, though I rarely visit these threads, many of the responses are disrespectful, mocking, and sarcastic.

And I frankly doubt that if she were a Muslim or Sikh or Aboriginal Canadian posting their religious views whether that sort of response would be tolerated for very long.

[jbg]

And I frankly doubt that if she were a Muslim or Sikh or Aboriginal Canadian posting their religious views whether that sort of response would be tolerated for very long.

Or for that matter if the posts were on behalf of the Symbionese Liberation Army.

[GostHacked]

To be fair, though I rarely visit these threads, many of the responses are disrespectful, mocking, and sarcastic.

And to be fair, most of those mocking comments were coming from Betsy herself. Legitimate challenging questions were raised, but they were not accepted with open arms.

[betsy]

If you don't like the topic, don't respond.

If you don't like the views of betsy, don't enter her topics.

If you don't like her style of debating, then why do you keep engaging her?

No one twisted anyone's arms to force you to participate in the topics that doesn't appeal to you, much more something you find dumb or ridiculous!

Being unable to muster your self-control, or your self-discipline to have yourself ignore what obviously upsets you isn't anyone's problem, but your own. There is such a thing called, "ignore button." Use it.

Why should members have to gain your approval on what we can post?

This is what I've been saying all along:

there is a dictatorial climate being fostered by some members who resort to low-level tactics such as deliberate trashings/harassment of topics they don't agree with.

It's no surprise why there's hardly any religious people who actively participate or create topics in Religion Section!

THE EXAMPLES SHOWN BY SOME MEMBERS HERE - TROLLING, TRASHING, HARASSMENT, MOCKING OF FAITH - IS THE REASON WHY THE SUCCESSFUL BUSY FORUM THAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT, MAKES AN EXTRA EFFORT TO PROTECT ITS THRIVING RELIGION SECTION.

Edited May 9, 2014 by betsy

[betsy]

Somebody mentioned proselytizing - I find it amusing why that would be an issue!

Most believers of some faith does that - whether consciously or unsconsciously. That comes with believing that one belongs to the true religion.

You should see the Religion Section in that other forum. From various denominations of Christianity to Buddhism to Bahai Faith etc., Of course the atheists/agnostics can join in, too - as long as they follow the rules for that section!

It makes for a very lively board!

The multiculturalism of Canada - and their religion - ought to be reflected on this board.....

Edited May 9, 2014 by betsy

[WWWTT]

And what does any of this have to do with the thread title Betsy?

I think you made your point clear. Don't you think it's time to move on now?

WWWTT

[OftenWrong]

And what does any of this have to do with the thread title Betsy?

I think you made your point clear. Don't you think it's time to move on now?

I agree its drifted. But if you read the thread you will see that westcoastrunner and kimmy are the ones who took it there. I was surprised when they suddenly appeared in the conversation, only to do that. Really underscores the infected groupthink around here.

[WestCoastRunner]

I agree its drifted. But if you read the thread you will see that westcoastrunner and kimmy are the ones who took it there. I was surprised when they suddenly appeared in the conversation, only to do that. Really underscores the infected groupthink around here.

I jumped in because I keep reading these posts that go on and on from Betsy. I have weighed in from time to time so I don't think I have suddenly appeared. At least Kimmy and I have been posting quite regularly on this forum in other threads. I have not seen Betsy do the same and perhaps her complaints are directed to days gone by which are no longer relevant?

Infected groupthink? What does that mean?

[betsy]

I have not seen Betsy do the same and perhaps her complaints are directed to days gone by which are no longer relevant?

Days gone by.....therefore no longer relevant.

Maybe they're not relevant to you since you're quite new here.

Your enthusiasm in joining the discussion is admirable....but unfortunately, you've jumped in the middle of the fray - with both guns blazing - without fully understanding the history of what a lot of complainants here are airing out. You hardly know me, nor have you followed the whole discussion on these two threads in Support Section. Your questions are what gave you away.

How do you suppose we've lost so many members? They didn't just disappear overnight. No sireee. The exodus began in "days gone by."

No offense, but your uninformed critique is what's really irrelevant.

FYI, whether I've posted everyday like you do, or not participated at all - as long as I'm a member in this forum, I do have a voice to speak up, thank you. It's not for you to say who should, or should not give any suggestions.

If you have any problems with inactive members coming out from hibernation, and freely speaking and giving suggestions, then make a suggestion for admin to include that in their policy/rules.

Edited May 10, 2014 by betsy

[WestCoastRunner]

Well, you don't really know me either but you took it upon yourself to criticize me up the ying yang! Is this a cat fight?

[betsy]

Well, you don't really know me either but you took it upon yourself to criticize me up the ying yang! Is this a cat fight?

Big difference.

You broke the rule by calling a member, "idiot."

I didn't break any rules by airing out my complaints and giving suggestions. In fact, I'm simply responding to the topics in this section.

No, it's not a cat fight. Not from my angle, at least.

The way I see it....you joined a fray or a very heated thread which include a lot that you hardly understood (since you're quite new here), and you picked the wrong time - and the wrong thread - to do it.

What do you think? You came out calling members insulting names right in the middle of a thread when we're hotly complaining about inconsistent/bias moderation!

Edited May 10, 2014 by betsy

[WestCoastRunner]

The way I see it....you joined a fray or a very heated thread which include a lot that you hardly understood (since you're quite new here), and you picked the wrong time - and the wrong thread - to do it.

Because I was quite new I shouldn't have contributed?

[betsy]

Because I was quite new I shouldn't have contributed?

I'll just have to ignore you, sorry. Not only have I drifted off-topic here.....but you lost me. I don't know where, or how you came to that conclusion. We're not on the same page.

Edited May 10, 2014 by betsy

[WestCoastRunner]

I'll just have to ignore you, sorry. Not only have I drifted off-topic here.....but you lost me. Or me lost you?

Don't be sorry.

[betsy]

And what does any of this have to do with the thread title Betsy?

I think you made your point clear. Don't you think it's time to move on now?

WWWTT

Actually, the previous post somehow has something to do with the title, too.

I'm comparing the other Religion Section from MLF Religion Section. The big difference in content/participation/variety between the two. AND since the other Religion Section had made an effort to protect Religion Section suggests that what's happened here on MLF is not something uncommon.

The other forum had recognized the problem, and did something about it. They established rules that protect Religion Section from being inundated by trashers/mockers who'll inhibit participation from religious people.

The rule states that the section is for discussing spirituality and faith. Posts critical of faith or spirituality are not allowed in that section.

That's why we've got so many religious people participating in that forum - from various religions!

They'd separated it from Philosophy. If one wants to question the existence of God as an example, that goes under Philosophy.

If this site wants increased traffic, they have to ensure that nothing will inhibit or intimidate people from signing up and participating (not only in Religion but whatever their interest are).

Most members you have here may not be interested in Religion, but there are folks who are interested in discussing it (religious or not). I think it's a big mistake to have let Religion Section slide down the way it did. Of course that's just my opinion, which I base from comparison with another forum.

Some atheists/agnostics would love to get into a debate with religious folks, I'm sure....you've got one non-believer not too long ago, who voiced out his dissatisfaction with this site, and promptly disappeared. Too bad we've never encountered each other.

Edited May 10, 2014 by betsy

[The_Squid]

Betsy, why are you only posting in this one topic? You seem to be here only to let everyone know how hard done by you are here.... Maybe a forum with only like-minded individuals is the best place to spend your time....

[WestCoastRunner]

Thank you squid. i really don't get betsy's complaints. Sorry.

[betsy]

Betsy, why are you only posting in this one topic? You seem to be here only to let everyone know how hard done by you are here.... Maybe a forum with only like-minded individuals is the best place to spend your time....

Thanks for your input, Squid. I don't think I need any reason to be here airing out, other than I'm a member here.

If you hadn't noticed, I'm very much in a thread with several like-minded individuals - those who want to discuss and/or voice out their complaints about moderation, and giving our no-holds barred input, and blunt honest critique on what ails this forum.

We've been losing a lot of sensible active members over the years, with viewer/participant count down to a pathetic low compared to its heyday. Definitely, something(s) in this site are serious turn-offs!

Something(s) in this site are driving sensible active members away.

And I'll bet my bottom bippy, insistent thread derailment left unchecked, is one of them.

Actually, that comment you and Westcoast Runner just gave is what's kinda "misplaced" in this thread. They shouldn't be posted here.

I didn't know that there is any rule against concentration on one particular thread, or that members are required to participate in more than one thread, is there?

Btw, some members had recently observed and commented on the thread-drift....so let's respect this thread and our fellow-members. This thread is not about me.

Instead of insistently de-railing this particular thread (and consciously violating the rules of this site),

you and Westcoast Runner ought to start a separate thread voicing out your objection(s) regarding my participation in this forum, and/or where you think I should post or not, etc.., Otherwise, I'll be forced to do what was advised by the Mod, and will Report. You've both been fairly warned of my intention.

Btw, that last part can be how we can moderate ourselves.

Edited May 10, 2014 by betsy

[WWWTT]

I agree its drifted. But if you read the thread you will see that westcoastrunner and kimmy are the ones who took it there. I was surprised when they suddenly appeared in the conversation, only to do that. Really underscores the infected groupthink around here.

Yes I found kimmys style to be a somewhat of a hit an run type.

Ahh but now I'm drifting!

WWWTT

[The_Squid]

Instead of insistently de-railing this particular thread (and consciously violating the rules of this site),

you and Westcoast Runner ought to start a separate thread voicing out your objection(s) regarding my participation in this forum, and/or where you think I should post or not, etc.., Otherwise, I'll be forced to do what was advised by the Mod, and will Report. You've both been fairly warned of my intention.

Start a thread all about Betsy? LOL No thanks....

Yes, you should absolutely report all posts you think are against the rules.... It will give you more to complain about in this thread certainly!

Edited May 10, 2014 by The_Squid

[kimmy]

Yes I found kimmys style to be a somewhat of a hit an run type.

Ahh but now I'm drifting!

WWWTT

I have voluntarily stepped back from this to avoid taking things further off course, and to allow people to vent if that's what they wish to do.

However, I object to the charge of being a hit-and-run type. I've shown immense patience over the years trying to explain things to people like Betsy or Pliny when most people would have just given up and moved on.

-k

Edited May 10, 2014 by kimmy

[bleeding heart]

I do remember a discussion about magnets which displayed Herculean patience. Hats off!

[cybercoma]

We should have an archives for the best threads and the magnets one needs to go in it.

Edited May 10, 2014 by cybercoma

[Hydraboss]

This thread is quite the read...34 pages of complaints, suggestions, semi-flames, almost-trolling, thread drifting and most of all - conversation. Probably better than a lot of what is going up on the main part of the board.

I've been around here for a little while but I tend to read a lot more than I post. Likely because I tend to post in the threads that interest me AND where I actually have something to say. No one is required to like what I post or to respond to it in any way, shape or form. That being said, a couple of comments:

1) From what I read the moderation is getting (or is) a little heavy handed compared to what it used to be. I've been given a couple of warnings and those were with good reason, but maybe I quit posting before it got to the point it is now. I don't own the board so if someone who is associated with it decides I need a vacation I have two choices: come back when I'm able to or bugger off and find another board. That being said, when I did get warnings I at least got the message from Greg or Charles with a one-liner explaining what I did.

2) I remember when Charles was still posting as a mere human...always thought he was doing a great job of not giving away his ideas while baiting others to put up or shut up. Still see that in this thread. I don't have to agree with his politics to appreciate the writing.

3) Michael and I could not be further away in political views, but again, I don't have to agree with him. He still adds to the conversation (even as wrong as he is). He's also volunteering to do it which is more than I am doing. Don't complain about a free meal people.

4) Maybe people on here just need to grow a little thicker skin. He was mentioned way back in the thread by Argus, but for those of you who don't remember Lictor, look him up. The guy was as straight up a racist as there ever was, but he was usually mindful of how he worded things and stayed quite a while before getting his ass banned. If you think posters NOW are "too harsh" go find posts by Posit or (who was that militant native protester that was posting around the time of the Caledonia incident?...the "Invisible Mohawk Warrior" guy.) and see what used to be normal. And fun. If it keeps going the politically-correct way it is, I feel it will soon be no different than the one where all the rabble in Canada hang out.

5) Thread drifting - it's a DISCUSSION. Has no one every gone for a pint with people and talked? That's what happens when people talk. They start by talking about the weather, take a right turn at federal politics and then end up discussing whether or not we want Bieber back (and I don't). Conversations of any substance tend to right themselves eventually. Ease up.

6) I like the idea of the thread starter facilitating his or her own thread - deleting what is inappropriate and being responsible to control thread drift. What's the worst that can happen? I seem to remember this happening quite a bit in practice a number of years ago and people either got back on topic or left the thread and it died off. Now if someone goes way off the deep end, of course MH or CA will have to get involved but how often will that need to occur? Why don't we find out?

7) To those who don't like:

• Argus - To them I say "grow up and play with the big kids." I sometimes agree with him and sometimes don't. He can be a pompous ass and he can be very reasonable. Either way he is generally articulate and stays away from personal attacks. He also would not hesitate to respond to an insult with a carefully worded one of his own. It's okay - I'm a big boy and can take it. Maybe everyone else should too.
• Betsy - To them I say "...and your point would be?" She likes to post about religion and I don't. It's also been stated that she posts "easily refutable" quotes and links. Here's a suggestion: Refute them, ignore them or stay off that particular thread.
• Kimmy - To them I say "better make sure your powder is dry" before pulling that trigger. She is easily one of the best posters on the board and has been since I joined a little while ago. If you post something stupid, be prepared to be called out and shut down. It's the way the lady responds to stupidity - with reason and just a hint of sarcasm. I happen to appreciate that type of banter.
• The Guy Who Calls Me A Climate Denier - To them I say "whatever". I've never met anyone who likes to quote themselves so much (including having so many nested quotes that it's hard to figure out who he's responding to). Apparently he believes in climate change-global warming-global cooling more than I do. So what? I like reading the threads and then trying to decide "who won" that round. I simply don't post because I really have nothing other than opinions to add. There are members who are far better equipped to respond to his posts, so I stand back and let them.
• Shady, JBG, BC, etc, etc, etc - No one likes everyone. Some posters are just trolling, some are trying to add to the conversation and just happen to inflame people, some are likely being "taken the wrong way". Every board is like that unless it's been beaten into submission and homogenized. MLW has always had various posters that others didn't like - jdobbin was a liberal pain in my ass but he believed in what he wrote and tried his best to back it up. Even Lictor had his moments although most of what he wrote turned my stomach. I survived. So will everyone else.

Maybe we need to do away with the "report" button and members can resume having to actually type a message to the moderation team. That might slow down the rate at which CA has to respond, which I think may be why the suspensions are coming so hard and fast - sheer volume of complaints. I have never felt the need to report anyone for anything - it's a political discussion board not the New York Times. Just my thoughts on it.

There. I'm done my little sermon. Back to work.