BC Teachers Getting Screwed...Again

[cybercoma]

Those numbers aren't explained and I'm wondering where you got them and what they mean. For instance, grades 8 to 12, 23.0 students. Just what does that mean? That the class average PROVINCE WIDE is 23? And the cap, what is the definition of the associated cap?

Because in a major lower mainland school district in 2012, my wife knows of a colleague who had an academic class of 32. This wasn't band, drama or Phys Ed.

Averages. So you know those schools in rural areas where classes have 7-12 students in them? They're part of the average and they skew it. Median class size would be more informative.

[Hal 9000]

Does GM? Does Air Canada?

The question: Do employers contribute their contracted share into a pension plan after the employee has retired?

The answer: whaddayou think?

Another red herring!

Anyway the answer is yes, A teacher puts in about 12% of their earnings and get back a generous 40K per year plus full benefits. If they work 2.5 days a week after retirement, they can easily top back up to 75-80k. If someone goes on leave, they can really bring in the cash. Yes, we are paying a teacher pension plus work.

Now, if that teacher stayed retired, we'd obviously have to pay someone to work those days. My point is that we can pay a top tier teacher those hours or we can pay a lower tier/newer teacher, therefore paying a little less and also giving a younger teacher more hours.

[Hal 9000]

Averages. So you know those schools in rural areas where classes have 7-12 students in them? They're part of the average and they skew it. Median class size would be more informative.

If there are any class rooms with 7-12 people, some of those teachers should be laid off or transferred. I suspect Sharkman's school district has some issues that they need to deal with.

[Bob Macadoo]

Why are you so bloody hostile?

Sorry. It's amazing the ignorance people actually project when it comes to unions. (See Post 1302) They invent all these unimagineable benefits and ascribe them without proof then promotes them as true allowing it to spread like a virus......like in this thread.

If you're going to get mad at union benefits......be mad at real ones.....not Wonderland invented ones.

Edited September 8, 2014 by Bob Macadoo

[Bob Macadoo]

Another red herring!

What?

Anyway the answer is yes, A teacher puts in about 12% of their earnings and get back a generous 40K per year plus full benefits. If they work 2.5 days a week after retirement, they can easily top back up to 75-80k. If someone goes on leave, they can really bring in the cash. Yes, we are paying a teacher pension plus work.

So can anyone else who retires and then goes back to work. Although your 80k is made up as usual. 2.5 days every week with the tax implications won't get you there. Might as well not have retired if you need 80k as it's more like 3.5 days every week. Why are teachers to be different though, just asking. By the way how much of your earnings do you contribute to retirement? 20%, 25%?

Now, if that teacher stayed retired, we'd obviously have to pay someone to work those days. My point is that we can pay a top tier teacher those hours or we can pay a lower tier/newer teacher, therefore paying a little less and also giving a younger teacher more hours.

You keep chanting this and I've repeated that's in "your" control......get to it......or is ranting about it more satisfying?

[Wilber]

Sorry. It's amazing the ignorance people actually project when it comes to unions. (See Post 1302) They invent all these unimagineable benefits and ascribe them without proof then promotes them as true allowing it to spread like a virus......like in this thread.

If you're going to get mad at union benefits......be mad at real ones.....not Wonderland invented ones.

One issue I do have and not just with the teachers is the concept of being paid out for unused sick days on retirement. I don't have an issue with banking a certain number of sick days for a possible major illness but sick days are for when you are sick, not deferred salary.

[Hal 9000]

Why are you so bloody hostile?

Bob is hostile because teachers are not to be questioned - ever. I remember the outrage in 2005 when teacher salaries were leaked to the public.

Teachers work for the people and we should be able to know whats going on and what we're paying these people for. Teachers are striking and our kids are the ones losing out - whether the teachers are right or wrong, we still need to know the truth.

If Bob wants to challenge my numbers, he's very welcome.

[Bob Macadoo]

One issue I do have and not just with the teachers is the concept of being paid out for unused sick days on retirement. I don't have an issue with banking a certain number of sick days for a possible major illness but sick days are for when you are sick, not deferred salary.

I agree they could be bankable to use rather than LTD, the only problem arises in reversing the use 'em or lose 'em mentality....*cough*cough*. That is the attitude I wish could be eliminated in the minority without punishing the collective.

[Bob Macadoo]

Bob is hostile because teachers are not to be questioned - ever. I remember the outrage in 2005 when teacher salaries were leaked to the public.

Teachers work for the people and we should be able to know whats going on and what we're paying these people for. Teachers are striking and our kids are the ones losing out - whether the teachers are right or wrong, we still need to know the truth.

If Bob wants to challenge my numbers, he's very welcome.

I already challenged everything you've spouted.....and defined it as the rhetoric it is.

As for your second statement I agree......should check with those ever open & transparent gov'ts out there.

[Hal 9000]

I already challenged everything you've spouted.....and defined it as the rhetoric it is.

As for your second statement I agree......should check with those ever open & transparent gov'ts out there.

You sound more and more like Jacee with every posting.

[Pct2017]

In this truly bizarre negotiation, the BCTF has just trumped all of its previous lows in stupidity. So, they ask for arbitration, but only on the bits that are advantageous to the teachers. The government gives the obvious answer - "No". So, today, the BCTF announced that it is going to take a vote to the membership on - wait for it - arbitration. So, apparently, no means yes in teacherland.

Completely and utterly bizarre. The only thing I can guess is the BCTF wants to get a vote of any description going so as to take the pulse of the teachers. That is likely wishful thinking on my part as it would require thinking on the part of Jim Iker.

[Wilber]

I think they have only one pre condition. Withdrawal of E80.

[Hal 9000]

In this truly bizarre negotiation, the BCTF has just trumped all of its previous lows in stupidity. So, they ask for arbitration, but only on the bits that are advantageous to the teachers. The government gives the obvious answer - "No". So, today, the BCTF announced that it is going to take a vote to the membership on - wait for it - arbitration. So, apparently, no means yes in teacherland.

Completely and utterly bizarre. The only thing I can guess is the BCTF wants to get a vote of any description going so as to take the pulse of the teachers. That is likely wishful thinking on my part as it would require thinking on the part of Jim Iker.

It's just posturing!

The teachers will vote for arbitration, then the BCTF and the media will play the "teachers are doing everything they can, but the Gov't...." bullshit card.

Edited September 9, 2014 by Hal 9000

[Wilber]

It's just posturing!

The teachers will vote for arbitration, then the BCTF and the media will play the "teachers are doing everything they can, but the Gov't...." bullshit card.

I'm sure the govt is hoping people see it that way but I wouldn't count on it. It will also remove any question whether or not the BCTF membership supports its leadership. Good gamesmanship on the teachers part, methinks.

[Bob Macadoo]

It's just posturing!

The teachers will vote for arbitration, then the BCTF and the media will play the "teachers are doing everything they can, but the Gov't...." bullshit card.

Why is it a bullshit card? They are getting a direct pulse of their membership. If as you say the union is not representing the membership they'll know soon enough......how about that direct democracy in action. When the gov't comes back to the table there will be less delay time available for useless posturing....on both sides.

[sharkman]

It's just posturing!

The teachers will vote for arbitration, then the BCTF and the media will play the "teachers are doing everything they can, but the Gov't...." bullshit card.

Hey dude, the government has been posturing all weekend, but of course you don't seem to notice that. Right now there is nothing going on at the bargaining table so BOTH sides are waging a war in the media. The BCTF should vote on this, the government has been unwilling to do anything. No negotiations with Vince Ready, no to binding arbitration and no bargaining with the BCTF. They are letting the province twist in the wind until October when they might be able to get away with a third legislation back to work move. Such a wrongheaded strategy needs to be challenged any way the teachers can.

[dre]

Except you are wrong. The population threw a fit over the HST because they perceived it to be a tax increase which shows that the government CANNOT easily increase revenues. If the teachers get a raise it comes at the expense of something else. What are you willing to sacrifice?

First of all you obviously dont live in BC. The HST was rejected not because it was perceived as a tax increase but because it was percieved as being very regressive. Theres a big big difference between those two things. Id happy sacrifice the 64 million dollars Crusty spent on ad campaigns! LOL

[overthere]

Every teacher has a uni degree, they are a well educated lot.

Perhaps the govt should ask this centre of excellence how to reduce the $60+ billion in debt the province carries. I'm sure they can find a way to dramatically increase payment to teachers while cutting costs elsewhere.

[socialist]

In a great show of solidarity public sector unions in British Columbia are standing in solidarity with teachers pledging $8 million in interest-free loans to the B.C. Teachers' Federation, and urging the government to accept that union's proposal for binding arbitration.

I hear that the public's patience for the BC government is growing very thin.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/b-c-teachers-strike-gets-financial-boost-from-federation-of-labour-nurses-1.2762121

[Hal 9000]

In a great show of solidarity public sector unions in British Columbia are standing in solidarity with teachers pledging $8 million in interest-free loans to the B.C. Teachers' Federation, and urging the government to accept that union's proposal for binding arbitration.

I hear that the public's patience for the BC government is growing very thin.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/b-c-teachers-strike-gets-financial-boost-from-federation-of-labour-nurses-1.2762121

If they really want to make a difference, maybe the public sector unions should show some solidarity and do a walk-out. $500g from nurses union is chump change, lets see them give up a days work.

This is my favourite quote; "We believe this significant sum will help teachers stand strong against a government trying to bleed them dry,"

[Bob Macadoo]

If they really want to make a difference, maybe the public sector unions should show some solidarity and do a walk-out. $500g from nurses union is chump change, lets see them give up a days work.

Yet that would be illegal.....I know you wouldn't advocate for a party to commit contractual fraud would you. That would call into disgrace the whole negotiation process.

[WestCoastRunner]

I was listening to an interview on cbc radio this morning with the minister of finance and one of his responses was that it wouldn't be fair to the other unions to give the teachers what they want. Except, the other unions have committed 8 million in interest free loans to the BCTF in signs of solidarity. I think it's safe to say that he does not have his finger on the pulse on the BC population.

[Hal 9000]

Here's the letter to Fassbender regarding binding arbitration;

http://www.bcpsea.bc.ca/documents/teacher%20bargaining/Letters/00-Letter%20from%20Peter%20Cameron%20to%20Minister%20of%20Education%20Sept%206%202014.pdf

[sharkman]

Just more nonsense from Cameron. The teachers have voted on binding arbitration, and I'm willing to bet they'll be in strong support of it. The government has an opportunity here to end this thing, so of course they'll reject it in hopes of legislating them back to work.

[Bob Macadoo]

Here's the letter to Fassbender regarding binding arbitration;

That was misleading. I thought this was the actual offer not the gov't lackey's repeat of the party line. By the by what kinda alphabet soup is the BCPSEA? What is an employer's association? Is that for when things go south we can't blame gov't or school boards.....it was all that association's fault? Whoever that is.....just more suckling politicos at the middle management teat.