BC Teachers Getting Screwed...Again

[Pct2017]

You forgot to add to B. that they would also be affecting their court case. Curious you overlooked that what? In addition I didn't read anywhere about a membership vote that said they were desperate to get anything....just the one about arbitration.....were you taking straw polls at the vote?

So what you are saying the teachers should accept now an offer that will be there in Oct when legislated rather than further increase their support from parental public as I'm sure you "taxpayers" weren't going to vote NDP anyway. Hmmm I wonder what they'd do? I say again I hope you're not a lawyer as your negotiation comprehension skills are atrocious.

PS. The ON Liberals thought that legislating teachers would be a cinch too. Not too successful, should learn from others mistakes lest you make worse ones yourself.

OK, fair enough. So, if you believe that a legislated contract would affect that court case (BTW, if all the legislation affects is wages and benefits, this argument in crap, but oh well), then the other arrow in the governments quiver is essential services legislation. Legislate the greedy whiny little piggies that we call teachers here in BC back to work without a new contract. Let the appeals play out over the next two or three years all the while kids are getting educated and the membership is getting paycheques.

There are lots of ways to skin this cat, but the government has shown great refrain to date in providing the union with the opportunity to get its head out of its collective rear end.

And thank you, no, I am not a lawyer. By your very self righteous statement above, I have to assume that you are one. Did they not teach writing skills in your lawyer school?

[sharkman]

I believe Ready is involved in the present talks but it is just he, Iker and Cameron, not the full committees.

I just heard a tv report on the talks, and they made no mention of Ready. Doesn't mean he isn't involved, however, but either way the government side has to wake up. They really do seem to be moving slowly and I expected them to legislate the teachers back in June. I suspect they are aware the courts are watching, and they have to at least attempt to do something. Part of the problem may be that Cameron is in over his head, his statements in the media up to this point have been bush league.

[Pct2017]

Ah yes. Peter Cameron is a neophyte labour negotiator who is in over his head. That would be the same Peter Cameron who formerly was the lead negotiator for those wallflowers called the CAIMAW, then Executive Director of the HSA. Of course, he is destined to be in deep against a former kindergarten teacher. C'mon Sharky, I would expect better of you.

[sharkman]

I noticed you didn't comment on his idiotic statements in the media, he's really been below par on that front but I'm not sure what you've seen.

Edited September 13, 2014 by sharkman

[Pct2017]

I noticed you didn't comment on his idiotic statements in the media, he's really been below par on that front but I'm not sure what you've seen.

Can you give an example. Please remember that if his statement simply does not line up with your particular ideology, that does not necessarily make it idiotic.

I await your example.

[sharkman]

Let's see, you belittle the teachers and their leadership, you belittle me, and you want to present that you'll have an open mind on the subject? That's rich. No, I'll not provide you with anything, I already know what the response would be.

[overthere]

his idiotic statements in the media

I believe they amount to " we're not caving in to union demands".

Sheesh.

How can you have any faith in a man who does what he says he'll do?

[Big Guy]

The point is that this strike will end eventually. The union will claim victory and the government will claim victory and both will publish numbers that will back each up.

The teachers will go back, discipline will be a greater problem with many students blaming the teachers for the strike.

Parent/ teacher interviews will be a nightmare with conflicts, altercations and even physical confrontations taking place. It will be a difficult sell to discipline students who are truant when teachers have been truant for a long period.

In schools, there will be a loss of trust between teachers and administration and between supervisors and trustees. Some teachers will be angry, become more militant and show it with suffering performance in the classroom. Other teachers will blame the unions and

attendance at union meetings will suffer greatly. More and more teachers will refuse to supervise after school activities thereby causing more disruption in the schools with teams being cancelled and field trips non existent because of lack of teacher volunteers. Those few volunteering will feel the wrath of the others. Department heads will have difficulty getting co-operation from the members of their department and have to take up more and more duties that used to be spread around the members of department.

A core group of very angry teachers will spend the minimal time in school, encouraging others to do the same. The bell signalling the end of the day for students will be followed by a race to and out of the parking lot. Many teachers will make sure that they use up all sick days and take full advantage of any weakness shown by administration. The school environment will suffer greatly.

The politicians who also caused the strike will be moved to other portfolios and the government will carry on boasting about their "fiscal responsibility" and may or may not be re elected by their stand.

In a few years, the teachers will look back on this as a major mistake, never to be repeated.

You will probably disagree - but - been there. Once in one camp and later in the other camp.

Ask other teachers who have been through a strike of that duration.

[Pct2017]

Let's see, you belittle the teachers and their leadership, you belittle me, and you want to present that you'll have an open mind on the subject? That's rich. No, I'll not provide you with anything, I already know what the response would be.

Wow, of all the excuses that you could have come up with for not being able to follow through with a valid example, this is about the last one that I expected. So, to summarize, it is OK for you to call Peter Cameron an idiot, but it would be kind of scary if I were to belittle you for saying so. Hmmmmm

Now, I am plunking away on my key board with my left hand as my right hand is currently raised in oath that I will no mock you or belittle you on this matter if you can come up a valid example of Mr Cameron saying something that is truly idiotic, not merely out of synch with your ideology.

[sharkman]

Wow, of all the excuses that you could have come up with for not being able to follow through with a valid example, this is about the last one that I expected. So, to summarize, it is OK for you to call Peter Cameron an idiot, but it would be kind of scary if I were to belittle you for saying so. Hmmmmm

Now, I am plunking away on my key board with my left hand as my right hand is currently raised in oath that I will no mock you or belittle you on this matter if you can come up a valid example of Mr Cameron saying something that is truly idiotic, not merely out of synch with your ideology.

As usual, you miss the point. I'll type slowly for you. It's not that you belittle anyone, it's that you're a pro government hack with no capacity to think critically when it comes to union disputes.

[Pct2017]

As usual, you miss the point. I'll type slowly for you. It's not that you belittle anyone, it's that you're a pro government hack with no capacity to think critically when it comes to union disputes.

I am so confused. Earlier today, you stated in reference to yours truly, and I quote "you belittle the teachers and their leadership, you belittle me..." yet later in the same day, you say, and again, I quote "It's not that you belittle anyone....". Wow, is that ever a consistent statement. Sure am glad that it is Peter Cameron that you feel is making an idiot of himself.

Now, back to the core question. Do you or do you not have a quote from Peter Cameron that justifies your labeling him as idiotic? This is a pretty simple request. Type as quickly or as slowly as you wish, just give the citation for all of us to judge.

[Hal 9000]

As usual, you miss the point. I'll type slowly for you. It's not that you belittle anyone, it's that you're a pro government hack with no capacity to think critically when it comes to union disputes.

Don't take that from him! He's challenged you, and you obviously made a statement that you can easily back-up - so just let him have it!

[Bob Macadoo]

The point is that this strike will end eventually. The union will claim victory and the government will claim victory and both will publish numbers that will back each up.

In a few years, the teachers will look back on this as a major mistake, never to be repeated.

You will probably disagree - but - been there. Once in one camp and later in the other camp.

Ask other teachers who have been through a strike of that duration.

"Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria!"

Wow BG melodramatic much? I've been through 3 strikes in 2 provinces as a student and a parent and the crap you just described never happened. Even the teachers are back to full volunteering.....no militancy, no truancy. No one should look at job action as a mistake. Sorry you sold your soul for an administration job.

[Hal 9000]

"Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria!"

Wow BG melodramatic much? I've been through 3 strikes in 2 provinces as a student and a parent and the crap you just described never happened. Even the teachers are back to full volunteering.....no militancy, no truancy. No one should look at job action as a mistake. Sorry you sold your soul for an administration job.

It may seem melodramatic Bob, but y'know, I've pretty much seen first hand all these things happen after the 2005 strike.

What sticks out most for me is that after the 2005 dispute the elementary teachers in our district refused to have a christmas concert for the children. One teacher did for her own class, parents helped with setup and we all went and sat through two or three songs from our children. One teacher...one classroom of about 20 in the school.

That year, I learned everything I need to know about teachers.

[sharkman]

I am so confused. Earlier today, you stated in reference to yours truly, and I quote "you belittle the teachers and their leadership, you belittle me..." yet later in the same day, you say, and again, I quote "It's not that you belittle anyone....". Wow, is that ever a consistent statement. Sure am glad that it is Peter Cameron that you feel is making an idiot of himself.

Now, back to the core question. Do you or do you not have a quote from Peter Cameron that justifies your labeling him as idiotic? This is a pretty simple request. Type as quickly or as slowly as you wish, just give the citation for all of us to judge.

What are you, 12? Cameron has made 3 or 4 press conferences. Look it up on youtube or something. You know about youtube, right?

[Pct2017]

What are you, 12? Cameron has made 3 or 4 press conferences. Look it up on youtube or something. You know about youtube, right?

So,is it the fact that he held three or four press conferences that makes him idiotic in your esteemed view, or did he actually have a quote that infuriated you so much that you labeled him an idiot.

You are sounding a tad desperate. It really is OK to admit that you beaked off with no justification and we will all think better of you. If you continue down this path of providing no evidence to your allegation, then you simply look foolish. Your choice.

Am I 12? Sure, if that makes you feel better, we will go with that.

[sharkman]

No, he's in over his head, but providing a gov fanboy with evidence that he can easily look up on youtube and then find nothing objectionable seems pointless. We get it, you love him and hate JIm Iker. You've been quite descriptive in your distaste of the teachers, and have repeated yourself regularly.

You seem pretty sensitive though when someone is critical of your side. Time to put on the big boy pants and quit holding your breath until I meet your 'demands'. Cause it ain't gonna happen.

[Bob Macadoo]

It may seem melodramatic Bob, but y'know, I've pretty much seen first hand all these things happen after the 2005 strike.

What sticks out most for me is that after the 2005 dispute the elementary teachers in our district refused to have a christmas concert for the children. One teacher did for her own class, parents helped with setup and we all went and sat through two or three songs from our children. One teacher...one classroom of about 20 in the school.

That year, I learned everything I need to know about teachers.

Well there must be some deep seed of distrust in BC for the teachers.......I wonder how that could have happened? We in ON last year went through labour strife, work to rule, legislation, negotiation with water in both wines.......and the schools I dealt with (2) were itching to get back to regular duty (field trips, afterschool, sports, concerts, etc.) when the dust settled. Funny your teachers were so jaded......must be the West coast water.

[Big Guy]

"Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria!"

Wow BG melodramatic much? I've been through 3 strikes in 2 provinces as a student and a parent and the crap you just described never happened. Even the teachers are back to full volunteering.....no militancy, no truancy. No one should look at job action as a mistake. Sorry you sold your soul for an administration job.

You are entitled to your opinion from the perspective of a parent and a student. I have no dog in this fight. I am just sharing what I saw as a result of the job actions in Ontario over the last few decades. I still maintain that every job action is a mistake. No one comes out a "winner" with both sides later regretting that they were unable to come to agreement without a stoppage that disrupted the system, alienated students/parents, and had a negative effect on student performance.

If anybody really feels that losing at least 5% of a school year is insignificant must have a low regard for school curriculum.

Those young teachers at the bottom of the scale who are making half of what the senior teachers on the scale are making but teaching the same courses will be scratching their heads. Senior teachers who are within a few years of retirement will be wondering why they allowed their pensions to be reduced because of the strike.

I am only sharing my experience in these matters.

The sky is not falling but enthusiasm for teaching, morale, and respect for teachers is.

Nobody wins by a strike action.

[Bob Macadoo]

Nobody wins by a strike action.

I wholeheartedly agree, but without strike action some will lose more than they should or could. Life would be bliss if everyone was open/fair unfortunately human nature on all sides (worker/adminstrator/owner) invariably wins out.

[sharkman]

It may seem melodramatic Bob, but y'know, I've pretty much seen first hand all these things happen after the 2005 strike.

What sticks out most for me is that after the 2005 dispute the elementary teachers in our district refused to have a christmas concert for the children. One teacher did for her own class, parents helped with setup and we all went and sat through two or three songs from our children. One teacher...one classroom of about 20 in the school.

That year, I learned everything I need to know about teachers.

I think your memory or what you were told is a little off, or maybe you can explain something about it. You said that teachers refused to have a christmas concert. Isn't the case that they were to help put one on? Volunteer many hours that they don't get paid for? I don't know the details surrounding the 2005 dispute in Ontario, but it sounds like it was pretty nasty.

[Hal 9000]

I think your memory or what you were told is a little off, or maybe you can explain something about it. You said that teachers refused to have a christmas concert. Isn't the case that they were to help put one on? Volunteer many hours that they don't get paid for? I don't know the details surrounding the 2005 dispute in Ontario, but it sounds like it was pretty nasty.

No, my memory is perfect on this one!

Teachers are not required to help out students with their X-mas concerts, we get that. The point is; the teachers used their work to rule privileges to punish elementary students and their parents (and this was 2 months after the strike ended). They can say whatever they want about it "being for the kids", at the end of the day it's a job just like any other job.

People like me would have more respect for them if they owned up that fact, but I guess they get more milage from the "it all about the kids rhetoric".

[cybercoma]

I believe they amount to " we're not caving in to union demands".

Sheesh.

How can you have any faith in a man who does what he says he'll do?

I don't have any faith in any party, be it union or employers, who refuses to go to arbitration.

[Hal 9000]

I don't have any faith in any party, be it union or employers, who refuses to go to arbitration.

So, you'd rather have a gov't that makes billion dollar decisions on what can (at best) be described as a coin flip.

[sharkman]

No, my memory is perfect on this one!

Teachers are not required to help out students with their X-mas concerts, we get that. The point is; the teachers used their work to rule privileges to punish elementary students and their parents (and this was 2 months after the strike ended). They can say whatever they want about it "being for the kids", at the end of the day it's a job just like any other job.

People like me would have more respect for them if they owned up that fact, but I guess they get more milage from the "it all about the kids rhetoric".

I would beg to differ. The government treats it as just another occupation and an item on the budget that must be cut. It's substantially more important than that.

Edited September 14, 2014 by sharkman