Big Guy Posted March 6, 2014 Report Posted March 6, 2014 (edited) Not long ago the Conservatives passed legislation to toughen laws on marijuana possession for the purpose of trafficking. In 2012, the Safe Streets and Communities Act came into force and included legislating a mandatory six-month jail term for growing as few as six marijuana plants, as well as increasing minimum jail time to two years if individuals are caught trafficking near a school. Today, Justice Minister Peter MacKay stated that the Conservative government is seriously considering looser marijuana laws that would allow police to ticket anyone caught with small amounts of pot instead of laying charges. Good for the Conservatives - a good START! Holy Smoke! What happened to Justin Trudeau being targeted as “supporting the sale of pot to 10 year olds”? What happened to the Harper “tough on crime” and “throw them all in jail” policy? I guess somebody in the PMO will try to spin that it is a big difference between selling marijuana and smoking marijuana – there may even be a few people who will believe this. I can understand when a party changes a policy. Why not be honest and just say that “we were wrong, have reconsidered our stand on marijuana and are going in a different direction”? Don't pee on my leg and tell me its raining! Edited March 6, 2014 by Big Guy Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
Bryan Posted March 6, 2014 Report Posted March 6, 2014 The issue right now is, most of those simple possessions just get dropped if it's not severe enough to press formal charges. The new way, we'll be able to ADD the simple ticket in addition to the punishments already in place to make MORE pot users get punished. Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted March 6, 2014 Report Posted March 6, 2014 Perhaps Harper has woken up and realize just how stupid they look and sound. I recall an interview were Peter Mansbridge asked Harper about his tough on crime bill and how it applied to pot. His reply was that "when you buy tht marijuana cigarette you are not buying it from your neighbour, but from the Mexican drug cartels" or words to that effect. So anybody who can put 2 and 2 together could only conclude that under Harpers law that system will remain in effect. Does Harper go to Mexico for holidays now and the? Quote
eyeball Posted March 6, 2014 Report Posted March 6, 2014 The issue right now is, most of those simple possessions just get dropped if it's not severe enough to press formal charges. The new way, we'll be able to ADD the simple ticket in addition to the punishments already in place to make MORE pot users get punished. Jeez...what part of getting the state off people's backs is it that so many conservatives still don't get? I thought your ilk prided itself on inventing the notion. Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
bleeding heart Posted March 6, 2014 Report Posted March 6, 2014 They do pride themselves on that. And just incidentally, to disabuse people of the misconception, that notion is in fact incorrect. "Libertarianism," if anything, began on the left wing of the political spectrum, and for most people was more or less synonymous with anarchism. The "libertarian socialists" believe not only in limited government...but in limits to all hierarchical and authoritarian forms of power, including those generated from wealth. Quote “There is a limit to how much we can constantly say no to the political masters in Washington. All we had was Afghanistan to wave. On every other file we were offside. Eventually we came onside on Haiti, so we got another arrow in our quiver." --Bill Graham, Former Canadian Foreign Minister, 2007
Michael Hardner Posted March 6, 2014 Report Posted March 6, 2014 Holy Smoke! What happened to Justin Trudeau being targeted as “supporting the sale of pot to 10 year olds”? What happened to the Harper “tough on crime” and “throw them all in jail” policy? Those radio ads were playing last week, I think. Pretty stupid strategizing, and I'm not sure what it means. Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
Topaz Posted March 6, 2014 Report Posted March 6, 2014 So what the Tories are saying, yeah go ahead and smoke and we'll take your money but some of you will also have to go to jail. The Liberals are saying well won't send you to jail or fine you....what does the NDP say?? Quote
Boges Posted March 6, 2014 Report Posted March 6, 2014 So what the Tories are saying, yeah go ahead and smoke and we'll take your money but some of you will also have to go to jail. The Liberals are saying well won't send you to jail or fine you....what does the NDP say?? I'd love to see the accurate figures on how many people are being incarcerated in Canada with simple possession of pot. Tickets are a revenue stream while incarcerating and charging people is a revenue drain. In the US it's becoming a racial/class issue as people from affluent areas don't really have to worry about being thrown in jail for simple possession but people from poor neighbourhoods do. Quote
Topaz Posted March 6, 2014 Report Posted March 6, 2014 Health wise, experts say teens shouldn't smoke pot because their brains are still growing, and there's probably the same dangers of smoking pot as their is to tobacco, besides, both, stink! I wonder if the lobbyist for tobacco are getting worried? Quote
eyeball Posted March 6, 2014 Report Posted March 6, 2014 (edited) So what the Tories are saying, yeah go ahead and smoke and we'll take your money but some of you will also have to go to jail. The Liberals are saying well won't send you to jail or fine you....what does the NDP say?? The Liberals haven't said they won't try to ensure the legalization of pot isn't also attended by it's corporate monopolization. I don't know about Trudeau but I suspect the Liberal Party intends to retain the criminalization of home grown pot so they can corporatize it's production and thereby tax the living shit out of it. The tobacco lobbyists are probably drooling at the prospect I'd love to see the accurate figures on how many people are being incarcerated in Canada with simple possession of pot. Tickets are a revenue stream while incarcerating and charging people is a revenue drain. In the US it's becoming a racial/class issue as people from affluent areas don't really have to worry about being thrown in jail for simple possession but people from poor neighbourhoods do. Ticketing very much breaks society into classes, that are mostly shaped around the right-wing's smug sense of morality and superiority. The two-faced hypocritical sphincters just can't seem to help themselves. Edited March 6, 2014 by eyeball Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
Boges Posted March 6, 2014 Report Posted March 6, 2014 Ticketing very much breaks society into classes, that are mostly shaped around the right-wing's smug sense of morality and superiority. The two-faced hypocritical sphincters just can't seem to help themselves. I'm more talking about the actions of the police. The CPC are late to this policy. The Police Chiefs asked them for these powers last year. Ticketing on a whole is class thing. People can often speed with impunity if they can pay the fine. Quote
bleeding heart Posted March 6, 2014 Report Posted March 6, 2014 Well, sure, and this reaches right down to the depths of criminal law. People who can afford good lawyers have a better chance of lighter sentences. QED. Quote “There is a limit to how much we can constantly say no to the political masters in Washington. All we had was Afghanistan to wave. On every other file we were offside. Eventually we came onside on Haiti, so we got another arrow in our quiver." --Bill Graham, Former Canadian Foreign Minister, 2007
Bryan Posted March 6, 2014 Report Posted March 6, 2014 Jeez...what part of getting the state off people's backs is it that so many conservatives still don't get? I thought your ilk prided itself on inventing the notion. No one in any Conservative camp that I'm aware of has ever promoted getting off of criminals' backs. What they do often lament, is the lack of enforcement of the law. Adding a ticket for possession will help with that, so that there are less options for police and courts to just let the offender go. Quote
Boges Posted March 6, 2014 Report Posted March 6, 2014 Yeah because Liberals are so eager to get out of people's lives. Quote
eyeball Posted March 6, 2014 Report Posted March 6, 2014 No one in any Conservative camp that I'm aware of has ever promoted getting off of criminals' backs. What they do often lament, is the lack of enforcement of the law. Adding a ticket for possession will help with that, so that there are less options for police and courts to just let the offender go. Criminals? Get a grip. What most conservative governments I'm aware of do is create fear in society by denigrating and criminalizing whatever class of people is handy and then position themselves as the only thing standing between that and our hapless defenceless neighbourhoods and children. Many right-wingers are amongst the very worst nanny statists on the planet. The right-wingers who tolerate these in their political tents and coalitions should be ashamed of themselves. Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
guyser Posted March 6, 2014 Report Posted March 6, 2014 Criminals? Get a grip. What most conservative governments I'm aware of do is create fear in society by denigrating and criminalizing whatever class of people is handy and then position themselves as the only thing standing between that and our hapless defenceless neighbourhoods and children. Many right-wingers are amongst the very worst nanny statists on the planet. The right-wingers who tolerate these in their political tents and coalitions should be ashamed of themselves. You re on a roll eyeball. Keep it up Quote
PIK Posted March 6, 2014 Report Posted March 6, 2014 (edited) Perhaps Harper has woken up and realize just how stupid they look and sound. I recall an interview were Peter Mansbridge asked Harper about his tough on crime bill and how it applied to pot. His reply was that "when you buy tht marijuana cigarette you are not buying it from your neighbour, but from the Mexican drug cartels" or words to that effect. So anybody who can put 2 and 2 together could only conclude that under Harpers law that system will remain in effect. Does Harper go to Mexico for holidays now and the?Well when it comes to drugs of course trudeau will have more knowledge about it then harper. But this is what alot of conservatives wanted , just a fine. No problem with him realizing it was stupid and changing his mind, shows leadership. Edited March 6, 2014 by PIK Quote Toronto, like a roach motel in the middle of a pretty living room.
eyeball Posted March 6, 2014 Report Posted March 6, 2014 But this is what alot of conservatives wanted , just a fine. Does a fine make you feel better about yourself or something? I guess calling it a tax would offend some libertarian image you like to project. Most right wing conservatives are also very supportive of allowing corner stores to sell booze while also cutting taxes on it. Sound about right? Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
bleeding heart Posted March 6, 2014 Report Posted March 6, 2014 Can't we do "progressive fining" in the same way we do "progressive taxation"? I'm not being coy; I'm quite serious. In terms of punishing people for wrongdoing, why should the poor get hit harder and suffer more for the same misdemeanor that doesn't even faze their more well-off compatriots? Quote “There is a limit to how much we can constantly say no to the political masters in Washington. All we had was Afghanistan to wave. On every other file we were offside. Eventually we came onside on Haiti, so we got another arrow in our quiver." --Bill Graham, Former Canadian Foreign Minister, 2007
Boges Posted March 6, 2014 Report Posted March 6, 2014 Can't we do "progressive fining" in the same way we do "progressive taxation"? I'm not being coy; I'm quite serious. In terms of punishing people for wrongdoing, why should the poor get hit harder and suffer more for the same misdemeanor that doesn't even faze their more well-off compatriots? Then you get cops only trying to stop people in nice cars on the highway and busting people in nice clothe for pot. Quote
bleeding heart Posted March 6, 2014 Report Posted March 6, 2014 (edited) Not in this world. Simply not going to happen. Edited March 6, 2014 by bleeding heart Quote “There is a limit to how much we can constantly say no to the political masters in Washington. All we had was Afghanistan to wave. On every other file we were offside. Eventually we came onside on Haiti, so we got another arrow in our quiver." --Bill Graham, Former Canadian Foreign Minister, 2007
Boges Posted March 6, 2014 Report Posted March 6, 2014 Not in this world. Simply not going to happen. Why not? Ticketing of all kinds are simply cash grabs, if you can charge people of a higher affluence more, then they become targets. Quote
bleeding heart Posted March 6, 2014 Report Posted March 6, 2014 It's simply not going to work. There would be outcry, there would be tremendous political pressure, and that would be that. You can't go after the people who effectively own the society. Hell, even our criminal justice system is explicitly, intentionally skewed towards preferment of the moneyed classes. Quote “There is a limit to how much we can constantly say no to the political masters in Washington. All we had was Afghanistan to wave. On every other file we were offside. Eventually we came onside on Haiti, so we got another arrow in our quiver." --Bill Graham, Former Canadian Foreign Minister, 2007
Boges Posted March 6, 2014 Report Posted March 6, 2014 It's simply not going to work. There would be outcry, there would be tremendous political pressure, and that would be that. You can't go after the people who effectively own the society. Hell, even our criminal justice system is explicitly, intentionally skewed towards preferment of the moneyed classes. And what makes you think said people would be for "progressive fining"? Quote
Big Guy Posted March 6, 2014 Author Report Posted March 6, 2014 In my neck of the woods, Norfolk County in Southern Ontario, the prime tobacco growing area of Canada, entrepreneurs are lining up to get into the action when pot finally becomes legalized. The consensus is that with what is happening in the USA that it is only a matter of time before growing marijuana becomes a major industry. There is money to be made here! http://www.simcoereformer.ca/2014/02/02/norfolk-braces-for-industrial-scale-marijuana-production Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
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