Boges Posted February 24, 2014 Report Posted February 24, 2014 So if I understand correctly, many Canadians are staring at inevitable interest rate hikes for home loans ? That is a nightmare. Only if you're over leveraged. I actually benefitted from this. I was paying 5+% for my first term. Recently I renewed for 2% less. Win for me. Even if rates do go up for the next time I'll have a far reduced principal so I could likely alter the payment if I was desperate. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 24, 2014 Author Report Posted February 24, 2014 ...Even if rates do go up for the next time I'll have a far reduced principal so I could likely alter the payment if I was desperate. OK...good for you...but apparently the other problem (in the report) is unsecured consumer debt. Credit card rates will go up. But I am surprised that the report didn't relate the upside for savers without any debt, who have been losing money to inflation. Even a modest 5% return will look pretty good to them. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Michael Hardner Posted February 24, 2014 Report Posted February 24, 2014 OK, thanks for playing, but I think you are way off the mark. Those are attributes of identity, not the aspirations of a "dream". Didn't you say that the dream is for the Green Card ? Sorry, but I find it hard to believe you're being genuine here given your multitudinous scoffs at our frozen backwaters. And I don't get excited about nationalism much, so I'm not a good one to ask I guess. Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 24, 2014 Author Report Posted February 24, 2014 Sorry, but I find it hard to believe you're being genuine here given your multitudinous scoffs at our frozen backwaters. And I don't get excited about nationalism much, so I'm not a good one to ask I guess. But that is precisely why I am genuinely interested in the idea of a separate and unique "Canadian Dream". It is the first refreshing idea in these parts for a long, long time. If any mocking is needed, that will come soon enough. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Boges Posted February 24, 2014 Report Posted February 24, 2014 OK...good for you...but apparently the other problem (in the report) is unsecured consumer debt. Credit card rates will go up. But I am surprised that the report didn't relate the upside for savers without any debt, who have been losing money to inflation. Even a modest 5% return will look pretty good to them. I suspect that's not a problem isolated to Canadians. To most the CC rate is irrelevant because they pay the debt down every month. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 24, 2014 Author Report Posted February 24, 2014 I suspect that's not a problem isolated to Canadians. To most the CC rate is irrelevant because they pay the debt down every month. Agreed, but Canadians have won the gold medal for consumer debt compared to the Americans who were burned in 2008. When the BoC busts a move on interest rates, it is not going to be pretty is my guess. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Boges Posted February 24, 2014 Report Posted February 24, 2014 (edited) Agreed, but Canadians have won the gold medal for consumer debt compared to the Americans who were burned in 2008. When the BoC busts a move on interest rates, it is not going to be pretty is my guess. People think they're entitled to stuff they can't afford. Any move on interest rates will be gradual. There was a time when people had to pay double digits for car and home loans. I guess the biggest concern would be people who have a hefty HELOC being used. A one percent hike in rates puts them even further underwater. Better still than CC debt though, lots better. Edited February 24, 2014 by Boges Quote
BC_chick Posted February 24, 2014 Report Posted February 24, 2014 People think they're entitled to stuff they can't afford. Any move on interest rates will be gradual. There was a time when people had to pay double digits for car and home loans. I guess the biggest concern would be people who have a hefty HELOC being used. A one percent hike in rates puts them even further underwater. Better still than CC debt though, lots better. I would also add that the only really unaffordable markets for a first-timer with a modest income are Vancouver and Toronto which are really no different than New York or LA. BC2004 is being a bit dishonest about the numbers. The 'average' Canadian home is still under 400K. Of course we all want to live in the big cities near the urban centres, but nobody wants to pay for it. It's like you said, people want what they can't afford. Having said that, I don't think our housing market is sustainable. It should've been left to correct in 08. Quote It's kind of the worst thing that any humans could be doing at this time in human history. Other than that, it's fine." Bill Nye on Alberta Oil Sands
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 24, 2014 Author Report Posted February 24, 2014 I would also add that the only really unaffordable markets for a first-timer with a modest income are Vancouver and Toronto which are really no different than New York or LA. BC2004 is being a bit dishonest about the numbers. The 'average' Canadian home is still under 400K. Not at all....$400K average is still quite high compared to average prices in U.S. markets, even before the 2008 bust. Many things cost more in Canada. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Boges Posted February 24, 2014 Report Posted February 24, 2014 Not at all....$400K average is still quite high compared to average prices in U.S. markets, even before the 2008 bust. Many things cost more in Canada. Yeah because no one really wants to live in Buttbleep Indiana. I can get a house for less than $100,000 in Buffalo, but why would I want it? Same could go for the Niagara region in Canada, real estate there is low, but so is room for gainful employment. Quote
guyser Posted February 24, 2014 Report Posted February 24, 2014 Not at all....$400K average is still quite high compared to average prices in U.S. markets, even before the 2008 bust. Many things cost more in Canada.$389G vs $311G Not a huge difference. Factor in that in Canada there exists no shithole areas like in Camden, Compton, Detroit (all 3 in entirety),Nashville,Baltimore,KC , Dallas ,Minn/St Paul,Cleveland...the list can go on and on....which in fact brings down not only those neighbourhoods but the stench migrates more than a few blocks. We dont have NYC prices on the high end, but they are more than offset by the overwhelming level of slums that ab ound. Quote
guyser Posted February 24, 2014 Report Posted February 24, 2014 Same could go for the Niagara region in Canada, real estate there is low, but so is room for gainful employment.Niagara Falls....not Niagara region Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 24, 2014 Author Report Posted February 24, 2014 Yeah because no one really wants to live in Buttbleep Indiana. I can get a house for less than $100,000 in Buffalo, but why would I want it? Same could go for the Niagara region in Canada, real estate there is low, but so is room for gainful employment. But Canadian urban employment opportunities are crowded into far fewer metropolitan areas. This, along with foreign buying, pushes prices up. So we can parse the "Canadian Dream" this way as well. Not just any home will do. As for Indiana, it's like most any other U.S. Midwest state with good and bad attributes. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Boges Posted February 24, 2014 Report Posted February 24, 2014 But Canadian urban employment opportunities are crowded into far fewer metropolitan areas. This, along with foreign buying, pushes prices up. So we can parse the "Canadian Dream" this way as well. Not just any home will do. It depends what you're looking for. Suburban housing is still quite reasonable, but you need a car to go everywhere. You can spend a lot to live downtown but don't really need a car. These issues are the same in Canada and the US. Why do people live in Jersey but work in New York? As for Indiana, it's like most any other U.S. Midwest state with good and bad attributes. Sure, if it's what you like. But the lower real estate also translate into lower wages. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 24, 2014 Author Report Posted February 24, 2014 ....Sure, if it's what you like. But the lower real estate also translate into lower wages. But lower wages go much farther in the U.S. So we have another data point for the Canadian Dream....more income is needed because of higher costs and taxes. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
BC_chick Posted February 24, 2014 Report Posted February 24, 2014 But lower wages go much farther in the U.S. So we have another data point for the Canadian Dream....more income is needed because of higher costs and taxes. Mexico is even cheaper than the US, what's your point? Quality of life is based on many variables not just disposable income. Quote It's kind of the worst thing that any humans could be doing at this time in human history. Other than that, it's fine." Bill Nye on Alberta Oil Sands
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 24, 2014 Author Report Posted February 24, 2014 Mexico is even cheaper than the US, what's your point? Quality of life is based on many variables not just disposable income. I'm just trying to match observed behaviour to the concept of a 'Canadian Dream', assuming that the two are related. I could be wrong. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
jacee Posted February 24, 2014 Report Posted February 24, 2014 (edited) OK, thanks for playing, but I think you are way off the mark. Those are attributes of identity, not the aspirations of a "dream". US'n troll: Tell me about the Canadian dream. Cdn: Well it's ...... and ... US'n troll: rrrrrrrrrnfff !!! Yer wrong! . Edited February 24, 2014 by jacee Quote
BC_chick Posted February 24, 2014 Report Posted February 24, 2014 US'n troll: Tell me about the Canadian dream. Cdn: Well it's ...... and ... US'n troll: rrrrrrrrrnfff !!! Yer wrong! . According to Rue, people who obsess about other countries are actually racists towards the people of that country. I get the feeling BC2004 really hates Canadians. Quote It's kind of the worst thing that any humans could be doing at this time in human history. Other than that, it's fine." Bill Nye on Alberta Oil Sands
Boges Posted February 24, 2014 Report Posted February 24, 2014 But lower wages go much farther in the U.S. So we have another data point for the Canadian Dream....more income is needed because of higher costs and taxes. Yeah and Europe is higher than Canada's. I find it to be a case of 6 in one half a dozen another. Quote
jacee Posted February 24, 2014 Report Posted February 24, 2014 ... what's your point? bc's point ... always ... is Canada and Canadians suck. It's less frustrating if you know that up front. He has no other raison d'etre, apparently. . Quote
Michael Hardner Posted February 24, 2014 Report Posted February 24, 2014 But that is precisely why I am genuinely interested in the idea of a separate and unique "Canadian Dream". It is the first refreshing idea in these parts for a long, long time. If any mocking is needed, that will come soon enough. Refreshing ? How about the idea of no countries ? It's ridiculous to think that people who live a mile on either side of an imaginary line on a map have vastly different dreams. Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 24, 2014 Author Report Posted February 24, 2014 According to Rue, people who obsess about other countries are actually racists towards the people of that country. I get the feeling BC2004 really hates Canadians. Even if that were true (it isn't), the same could be said about some Canadians here and the U.S. Seething hatred.... Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Accountability Now Posted February 24, 2014 Report Posted February 24, 2014 You realize that the way to reduce the price of something that is not affordable is to make demand less, not more, right? 40 year mortgages was like throwing oil on the fire. The high demand was happening even when the mortgages were at 25 years so i don't think that is the case. In fact there was huge decrease in demand in 2008 as house prices fell due to the recession so the 40 year mortgage will increase demand by only so much. If anything, it will increase demand enough to give the housing market that nudge it needs for steady growth. The move to increase mortgages to 40 years was driven by what European countries and Japan started doing in the 90s as a result of their high house prices which resulted in 100 year mortgages. CMHC saw the increasing price trend in 2006 and ajusted the same way other countries had in the past. The reason Canada cut back to 35, 30 and now 25 year mortgages is becasue they saw what effect these high risk mortgages had on the US as most 40 year mortages are subprime. People are quick to abandon the houses when they have put in next to nothing. The real issue driving house prices is not the term but the subprime mortgages and zero percent down. At some point you have to have skin in the game otherwise it just makes it easy to walk which is no good for anyone. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 24, 2014 Author Report Posted February 24, 2014 Refreshing ? How about the idea of no countries ? It's ridiculous to think that people who live a mile on either side of an imaginary line on a map have vastly different dreams. I didn't make up the rules to this game. So we gots countries for now. If you wish to claim that the "dreams" are nearly or exactly the same, then just say so. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
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