overthere Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 I don't understand complaints about food on airlines. You're spending a limited time inside a large plastic tube, and the objective of that time is to get from A to B quickly. If you're intrerested in having something yummy to eat in that brief time, either bring your own or go to a fine restaurant instead of flying. Some airlines serve more palatable crap than others, but in the end it is all TV dinners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overthere Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 I sent a complaint to Air Canada via email recently, and the autoreply was pretty funny. It went along the lines of "your issue is very important to us. Our service standards mandate that we respond to you in (something like) 3-4 weeks for service complaints, 4-5 weeks for some other category, and 5-6 weeks for lost baggage complaints." Hilarious. In fact, it took them only a couple of days to send a long email with my name on it, which was very well written and said nothing. I (and I suspect many others) were pissed with AC for cancelling a nonstop flight to London , apparently because they were going to have competition from a new airline at the airport. Bad, bad move by AC, they pissed off a lot of (former) customers. Well, OK, I was already pissed but I took that flight about once a year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 I don't understand complaints about food on airlines. You're spending a limited time inside a large plastic tube, and the objective of that time is to get from A to B quickly. If you're intrerested in having something yummy to eat in that brief time, either bring your own or go to a fine restaurant instead of flying. Well, I suspect that the same cheap consumers who wants rock bottom air fares and refuse to pay checked bag fees (causing stowage mayhem in the cabin) are hardly the type to spend money at an expensive airport eatery or restaurant. Airline travel use to be delightful, then it became a glorified bus ride with wings and drama queens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overthere Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 Airline travel use to be delightful, then it became a glorified bus ride with wings and drama queens. It was never delightful, since you are still crammed into the same plastic tube sniffing your neighbours farts and eating TV dinners as you were brofre now. Way back in the day when it was considered somewhat glamorous, it was also really expensive in relative terms. Very few could afford it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 It was never delightful, since you are still crammed into the same plastic tube sniffing your neighbours farts and eating TV dinners as you were brofre now. Way back in the day when it was considered somewhat glamorous, it was also really expensive in relative terms. Very few could afford it. Got that right. Corrected for inflation and minus government fees and taxes that airlines can't control, airfares have never been cheaper in spite of the fact costs have never been tighter. In 1970 jet fuel cost 15 cents a gallon and you could buy a new B747 for $20 million US. Today jet fuel is over 80 cents a liter and here is Boeing's latest price list. http://www.boeing.com/boeing/commercial/prices/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 (edited) It was never delightful, since you are still crammed into the same plastic tube sniffing your neighbours farts and eating TV dinners as you were brofre now. Way back in the day when it was considered somewhat glamorous, it was also really expensive in relative terms. Very few could afford it. No, it use to be very delightful (1960's), with the smokers. So much so, we used to dress up for the ride, even in coach. No need for personal electronic distractions, just a book or in-flight magazine would do. Nowadays, the high anxiety drama begins well before boarding. Good thing handguns are not allowed ! Edited February 11, 2014 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overthere Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 Delightful is not the right word. The glamour of air travel was strictly in the eye of the beholder, and we got jaded in a hurry oince we actually looked up. It was exotic, a novelty, something only a privileged few could afford. People were alert and chipper and engaged, excited to be travelling so quickly. After a few years they looked up and noticed they were in fact trapped in a giant plastic cigar with tight quarters, smoke, teeny toilets and bad food. It was still as noted above, boring and cramped- but new to those few who could afford it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 Delightful is not the right word. The glamour of air travel was strictly in the eye of the beholder, and we got jaded in a hurry oince we actually looked up. Meh...either way, it was a far better experience than today, for passengers and air crew. A lot more respect both ways. Some of the crap they have to put up with now is outrageous, making the actual flight an afterthought to be endured, not enjoyed. Little kids used to actually play with model commercial airliners...imagine that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guyser Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 Meh...either way, it was a far better experience than today, for passengers and air crew.Except for the actual flight time . But actual flying time, nope. Noisier, lousier air,slower,crappier seats,..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guyser Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 I still dont get the lousy food thing I am admitted small time foodie , love to cook, know whats good food or not, and yet, most of the airline food isnt that bad, certainly nowhere near as bad as can be had at the airport or nearby for that matter. Its not gourmet (non 1stCl of course) nor can it really be so, but all in all it is good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overthere Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 Sorry , I don't agree. My first flight was as a child, in the 60s, trans Atlantic to the UK. It was absolutely thrilling on the way over. Boring as shit on the way back, It hasn't gotten any more or less interesting since. Last time I flew was to Panama a month ago, I was sitting near a bunch of teens on their first flight. They were very excited and curious , their first time on a plane. Bet they slept on their way home. It was always a matter of enduring the boredom of sitting and looking at the back of the seat in front of you. At least the back of the seat has movies in front of you, instead of a doily. And.... the boredom is cheaper. What I'm trying to say is that the travel itself has not changed at all really. What has changed is how we perceive it. It allows us to be nostalgic and indulge our penchant for romanicng the good old dasys. For air travel, these are undoubtedly the good old days, right now for the hundreds of millions of people who can actually see a world they could not 50 years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 Sorry , I don't agree. For air travel, these are undoubtedly the good old days, right now for the hundreds of millions of people who can actually see a world they could not 50 years ago. That's fine...I have flown hundreds of times and it is a less "delightful" experience than it was even in the '80's. There is a lot more tension and anxiety for many different reasons. "Jumping on a plane" use to be just that...now it's a humourless gauntlet to be endured or avoided if possible. It's not just that "Air Canada's Attitude Sucks"....now it's the more general "AIR TRAVEL SUCKS". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 That's fine...I have flown hundreds of times and it is a less "delightful" experience than it was even in the '80's. There is a lot more tension and anxiety for many different reasons. "Jumping on a plane" use to be just that...now it's a humourless gauntlet to be endured or avoided if possible. It's not just that "Air Canada's Attitude Sucks"....now it's the more general "AIR TRAVEL SUCKS". Yup, deregulation made flying a lot cheaper but the resulting cut throat competition resulted in saying adios to a lot of the "free" stuff. After that, no one thing did more to take any remaining fun out of flying than 9/11. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 Yup, deregulation made flying a lot cheaper but the resulting cut throat competition resulted in saying adios to a lot of the "free" stuff. After that, no one thing did more to take any remaining fun out of flying than 9/11. I agree, but it began to suck well before 9/11. Discount fares meant more butts in the seats for each flight, slashed salaries and benefits for air and ground crew, just an overall downward spiral so more people could fly on the cheap. Travel agent business is largely gone for this segment as well. I was shocked a while back when a Southwest pilot told me her base salary was only $35,000 U.S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 I agree, but it began to suck well before 9/11. Discount fares meant more butts in the seats for each flight, slashed salaries and benefits for air and ground crew, just an overall downward spiral so more people could fly on the cheap. Travel agent business is largely gone for this segment as well. I was shocked a while back when a Southwest pilot told me her base salary was only $35,000 U.S. Yup, about the same as junior Air Canada A320 pilots. Westjet B737 first officers actually make at about 15% more than Air Canada A320 first officers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bleeding heart Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 I agree these wages are lower than what I would have expected. As for the quality of the experience...I can agree with overthere and BC simultaneously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 Yup, about the same as junior Air Canada A320 pilots. Westjet B737 first officers actually make at about 15% more than Air Canada A320 first officers. To be more complete, that junior Southwest pilot (B737) told me what a lot of these underpaid, two tier pay system pilots will say, " I just want to fly...not get rich doing it". But you can tell it wears on them to know that the pay is not commensurate with the responsibility. But since others "want to be pilots", there is no pressure for wages to go up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 To be more complete, that junior Southwest pilot (B737) told me what a lot of these underpaid, two tier pay system pilots will say, " I just want to fly...not get rich doing it". But you can tell it wears on them to know that the pay is not commensurate with the responsibility. But since others "want to be pilots", there is no pressure for wages to go up. It used to be a great career but now I don't think being a pilot it is really a rational career decision. Trouble is, people get into it because they love to fly, not because it makes sense as a career. There are a lot more good pilots than good paying jobs. Unless you go through the military, it could easily cost more to become qualified to get an airline job than a 4 year degree and your employer will probably want a couple of years of college to boot. All that to make 35K a year to start with much slower advancement than in the past because of the retirement age being raised. Sullenberger wasn't kidding when he told Congress no airline pilot today would advise anyone he cared for to chose it as a career. Glad my kids didn't want to go that route. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Squid Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 I flew AC cattle class a couple weeks ago to Quebec. They had decent red wine.... I don't need the service of a fine dining restaurant to fly5 hours.... But the stewardesses were great! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Squid Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 I agree, but it began to suck well before 9/11. Discount fares meant more butts in the seats for each flight, slashed salaries and benefits for air and ground crew, just an overall downward spiral so more people could fly on the cheap. Travel agent business is largely gone for this segment as well. I was shocked a while back when a Southwest pilot told me her base salary was only $35,000 U.S. I do agree that flying isn't what it used to be.... and a pilot making $35k per year is a disgrace... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 (edited) I do agree that flying isn't what it used to be.... and a pilot making $35k per year is a disgrace... All that and they put their license on the line every six months with check rides in the flight simulator, annually in the aircraft itself and every time they have a physical. Yearly up to age 40 and every six months after that. Edited February 13, 2014 by Wilber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 I do agree that flying isn't what it used to be.... and a pilot making $35k per year is a disgrace... Holy crap, a Cpl Infanteer makes over 50 k a year.....is that 35 k after taxes....now thats scary....that can't be much more than above min wage... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Squid Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 Holy crap, a Cpl Infanteer makes over 50 k a year.....is that 35 k after taxes....now thats scary....that can't be much more than above min wage... I haven't confirmed it... it was stated by another poster earlier in this thread... but if true, it's pretty shocking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty AC Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 In "Capitalism - A Love Story" Moore touches on this. New pilots qualify for food stamps. Sully, the hero that landed on the Hudson River, has had has pay cut by 40% along with his pension. Here's the 5 minute segment: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 Aspiring airline pilots don't usually have enough multi-engine hours to just get a starting gig, so there is kind of a pecking order, depending on how much logged experience one has. Starting from scratch, there is schooling, flight instructor time to get more hours, charters, small regionals, junior pilot, flight officer, first officer, then captain of a big rig, but that takes many years. Captains can usually get six figures. http://thetruthabouttheprofession.weebly.com/professional-pilot-salaries.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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