Justin Trudeau kicks all "Liberal" Senators out of Caucus.

[waldo]

I see that ol' Waldo has been posting like a demon. He needs to have the last word - substantive or not. Narcissists have lots of stamina - it's obsessively vital they have the last word......did I mention I've had him on IGNORE for quite a while?

yes Simple, you keep mentioning the ignore... every other week or so! Clearly, you have lots of stamina! Is this you laying down your own 'last word'? And as I tend to do whenever you highlight this, that original ignore stems from you taking umbrage with me calling you out for linking your call for abortion legislation to morality. That clearly set you off and you've never been able to... get over it!

nice to read you back on your "narcissists bandwagon"! You do know that's a very personal insult, right? I trust no one will report you!

here, let me add this, your latest, to a list that I've not kept current as much as I should have... is there a pattern here, Simple?:

Simple, is there a pattern here? In your own words, as quoted, you've offered prior accompanying definitions of your usage; intended as a "pejorative to imply a mental disorder".

Moonbox - your exchange with our resident narcissist has once again painted old Waldo into his irrational corner. He simply will not deal with Climate issues on any practical, pragmatic or realistic level. He continues to spew the worst of alarmism - as exemplified by this exchange relating to Hansen's bizarre Oil Sands extrapollations.

I see you've been trying to have a rational discussion with our local zeolot Waldo who tends to huff and puff himself towards his usual narcissistic mania when rational discussion threatens to gain traction. He (or she) demonstrates the dark and destructive side of the Alarmist community - blinded to the reality that countries and governments need to work in incremental fashion to gain the momentum needed to make a difference. It's how the real world works. More and more, people are turning a deaf ear to the rantics and bluster of the Waldo-like fanatics.

Simple, that's quite a personalized attack... I trust no one reports you

Geez, I took you off IGNORE for 24 hours and I just HAVE to put you back on - just can't STAND listening to that condescending, narcissistic blabbering.......did you get beat up a lot in high school?

I still have Waldo on IGNORE but I can see the poor fellow is still suffering from a severe bout of hubris and narcissistic grandiosity. Zealots like Waldo...

Waldo .....his only contribution is his criticism of other peoples' posts. It makes sense though - behind every narcissist is a deep-rooted sense of insecurity.

Waldo..... That's why I've always said you're the poster-child for narcissism.

Waldo.....you have no opinions and you refuse to take a personal stand on anything. As a result, you have no credibility. Waldo, you're my pretty little flower.

The term narcissism refers to the personality trait of egotism, which includes the set of character traits concerned with self-image ego. The terms narcissism, narcissistic, and narcissist are often used as pejoratives, denoting vanity, conceit, egotism or simple selfishness.

......but you Waldo, refuse to believe that there is ANY valid scepticism within the scientific community... when all your attitude does is present you as the narcissistic poster-boy for all that is wrong with the Alarmist community - reeking of self-righteousness and self-importance.

It's OK Waldo. Calm down. Like I said previously, when a narcissist finally recognizes that they have been duped, it's not a pretty sight.

Narcissism: Narcissistic personality disorder is a mental disorder in which people have an inflated sense of their own importance and a deep need for admiration. Those with narcissistic personality disorder believe that they're superior to others and have little regard for other people's feelings. But behind this mask of ultra-confidence lies a fragile self-esteem, vulnerable to the slightest criticism.

It's unfortunate that Waldo has been so utterly duped by the CC establishment. Shame really....putting aside his (or her) narcissistic attitude.....when a narcissist who has been duped finds out that indeed they HAVE been duped, the results are not pretty.

[Argus]

where's the pretend? So... when Harper has leveraged the "removal from caucus" option... he means it - he really, really means it! But when another party leader exercises the same option... its a "pretend publicity stunt"!

I don't know, but it seems extraordinarily clear to me that in all previous instances of removal from caucus an individual who violated a number of rules was severred from the party. This was not the case here. These Senators remain members in good standing of the Liberal Party of Canada, and member of the Senate Liberal caucus. Pretending otherwise is silly and disingenuous, clearly meant to fool gullible rubes, most of whom are probably so in love with Trudeau's hair they'll swoon at everything he does.

[waldo]

I don't know, but it seems extraordinarily clear to me that in all previous instances of removal from caucus an individual who violated a number of rules was severred from the party. This was not the case here. These Senators remain members in good standing of the Liberal Party of Canada, and member of the Senate Liberal caucus. Pretending otherwise is silly and disingenuous, clearly meant to fool gullible rubes, most of whom are probably so in love with Trudeau's hair they'll swoon at everything he does.

"Trudeau's hair"! Winner, winner, chicken dinner!

yes, clearly, as before... you likee and equate Harper leveraging the removal from caucus option as legitimate... anyone else is a publicity stunt pretender!

[On Guard for Thee]

I don't know, but it seems extraordinarily clear to me that in all previous instances of removal from caucus an individual who violated a number of rules was severred from the party. This was not the case here. These Senators remain members in good standing of the Liberal Party of Canada, and member of the Senate Liberal caucus. Pretending otherwise is silly and disingenuous, clearly meant to fool gullible rubes, most of whom are probably so in love with Trudeau's hair they'll swoon at everything he does.

Just wait for the bump Trudeau gets in the polls from this. He was suffering froma bit of doubt about if he had any firm policy or not. He derailed Harper totally. Blabbing on for 8 years about what you might do to the senate, promising to never appoint a non elected senator and then appointing 59 of them, and then Justin actually does something. It didn't hit Mulcair quite so hard because he has no senators and wants to abolish it, which will never happen anyway. Let's see what else Trudeau comes up with.

[On Guard for Thee]

I don't know, but it seems extraordinarily clear to me that in all previous instances of removal from caucus an individual who violated a number of rules was severred from the party. This was not the case here. These Senators remain members in good standing of the Liberal Party of Canada, and member of the Senate Liberal caucus. Pretending otherwise is silly and disingenuous, clearly meant to fool gullible rubes, most of whom are probably so in love with Trudeau's hair they'll swoon at everything he does.

"Let me be very clear Mr. Speaker," Right, I think we know who the gullible rubes are.

[Keepitsimple]

Warren Kinsella, a lifelong Liberal who presents the Liberal view in the Toronto Sun is not happy with Trudeau's Senate gambit:

10 reasons why Trudeau's Senate bombshell is the stupidest thing, ever
Liberal leader looked like a participant in a Model Parliament

How dumb is Justin Trudeau’s Senate stunt? Let us count the ways.

There are 10.

...........

10) In politics, all that matters is loyalty and trust.

Last week, Justin Trudeau merrily shredded both, and he broke faith with people who literally kept the Liberal Party of Canada alive when he was still in nappies.

Last week, Justin Trudeau looked like a participant in a Model Parliament.

Not a prime minister.

Link: http://www.torontosun.com/2014/01/31/10-reasons-why-trudeaus-senate-bombshell-is-the-stupidest-thing-ever#

[Boges]

Warren Kinsella, a lifelong Liberal who presents the Liberal view in the Toronto Sun is not happy with Trudeau's Senate gambit:

Link: http://www.torontosun.com/2014/01/31/10-reasons-why-trudeaus-senate-bombshell-is-the-stupidest-thing-ever#

Yeah but he's from the Sun! Wait he's been a JT cheerleader until now?

That fact isn't convenient so forget it.

Edited February 2, 2014 by Boges

[Guest Derek L]

Warren Kinsella, a lifelong Liberal who presents the Liberal view in the Toronto Sun is not happy with Trudeau's Senate gambit:

Link: http://www.torontosun.com/2014/01/31/10-reasons-why-trudeaus-senate-bombshell-is-the-stupidest-thing-ever#

He made some very good points.

[Argus]

Yeah but he's from the Sun! Wait he's been a JT cheerleader until now?

That fact isn't convenient so forget it.

Kinsella isn't a Sun columnist. It looks like the Sun simply bought the column from his agency, which offers them up to various media outlets. Kinsella is a lifelong liberal, a backroom operator who has always gone for the jugular and is probably more responsible than any man alive for the hardening of attitudes between the parties, and the degeneration of political debate into attack ads and smarmy sound bites.

[cybercoma]

Kinsella isn't a Sun columnist. It looks like the Sun simply bought the column from his agency, which offers them up to various media outlets. Kinsella is a lifelong liberal, a backroom operator who has always gone for the jugular and is probably more responsible than any man alive for the hardening of attitudes between the parties, and the degeneration of political debate into attack ads and smarmy sound bites.

But he's right here. What Trudeau did is completely idiotic.

[jbg]

yes Simple, you keep mentioning the ignore... every other week or so! Clearly, you have lots of stamina! Is this you laying down your own 'last word'? And as I tend to do whenever you highlight this, that original ignore stems from you taking umbrage with me calling you out for linking your call for abortion legislation to morality. That clearly set you off and you've never been able to... get over it!

nice to read you back on your "narcissists bandwagon"! You do know that's a very personal insult, right? I trust no one will report you!

here, let me add this, your latest, to a list that I've not kept current as much as I should have... is there a pattern here, Simple?:

Is any sane person really going to read through the quotes and re-quotes? You've got to be kidding.

[bleeding heart]

Even the most cursory glance down through the post tells you that Waldo makes a good point--the remarks in question are bolded, so his point is obviously true.

[Boges]

Kinsella isn't a Sun columnist. It looks like the Sun simply bought the column from his agency, which offers them up to various media outlets. Kinsella is a lifelong liberal, a backroom operator who has always gone for the jugular and is probably more responsible than any man alive for the hardening of attitudes between the parties, and the degeneration of political debate into attack ads and smarmy sound bites.

Not true. He has like 2 columns a week. He shows up on Sun News sometimes too.

[Big Guy]

The reaction of both the NDP and the Harper Conservatives indicates that this was a brilliant move. I think what really bothers the Conservatives is that they did not think of it first. If Harper would have made the same move and statement then they would have got the big "bump". They would still have had the same control of the Senate, they would still have far more money than any other party going into the next election, they would have satisfied their Reform "rootsters". At the same time they would have created a perceptual "arms length" of that fiasco of the current Senate scandal. The new "independent" previously Conservative Senators would have had to accept the blame for Duffy et al and they (the new independent previously Conservative Senators) would have the challenge of dealing with them and any future problems highlighted by the awaited report on the Senate.

Kinsella is also part of the "old" Liberal machine that created the sponsorship scandal. It will be interesting to see if the old guard is prepared to undermine Trudeau just to maintain power within the party or are they prepared to pull back and allow Trudeau to try to rebuild the Liberal brand without them. Kinsella did back Sandra Pupatello in Ontario and was on both the Stephane Dion and Michael Ignatieff teams. His is considered part of the "old guard" and does not appear to be part of the Trudeau camp.

[cybercoma]

Unless Trudeau kicks them out if the party, they're still Liberal Senators. It's only as brilliant as the electorate is uninformed.

[Guest Derek L]

Unless Trudeau kicks them out if the party, they're still Liberal Senators. It's only as brilliant as the electorate is uninformed.

Doubly so when the Senators state they’re still Liberals and nothing will change…….I’ll predict a goodly number of these “former Liberal Senators” will outlive the tenure of the current leader…….I can’t wait until Trudeau actually comes out with some further policy ideas…..quite entertaining.

As to the electorate in general, I think most don't care, and when given the gist by CPC and/or NDP attack adds, will think it merely fluff......

Edited February 3, 2014 by Derek L

[On Guard for Thee]

Doubly so when the Senators state they’re still Liberals and nothing will change…….I’ll predict a goodly number of these “former Liberal Senators” will outlive the tenure of the current leader…….I can’t wait until Trudeau actually comes out with some further policy ideas…..quite entertaining.

As to the electorate in general, I think most don't care, and when given the gist by CPC and/or NDP attack adds, will think it merely fluff......

Yes it will be interesting to see what else Trudeau has up his sleeve. Who knows, but you have to admit the timing on this one was magic for him. Harper wandered back into QP hoping his budget announcement (which of course everyone picked up on will be tabled in the midst of the Olympics) would help him regain some of the ground he lost during the last session.. That lasted for 5 minutes and he spent the rest of the week defending his involvement in the senate scandal, the CSEC scandal, the Fantino horrorshow, and then Trudeau drops his "bomb" and does at least something that makes Harper's 8 years of talking about it seem so frail.

[Big Guy]

Unless Trudeau kicks them out if the party, they're still Liberal Senators. It's only as brilliant as the electorate is uninformed.

In politics perception is reality - as anyone will notice reading any electronic bulletin board. As to this particular gambit, when was the last time the leader of the third party dominated the political news with the governing party and the opposition party on the defensive? Let us see what transpires when the report on the Senate is tabled and the Duffy, Wallin and Brazeau fiasco is regurgitated by the RCMP. The brilliance (or not ) of the Trudeau initiative will be evaluated as to its success in the next few months.

As to the electorate - "In politics it is necessary either to betray one's country or the electorate. I prefer to betray the electorate." Charles de Gaulle

[Topaz]

Many say that the senate should be elected so they would be responsible to the taxpayers, but what about the Supreme Court Judges, they aren't elected, they are appointed, so if its good enough for the high court , shouldn't it be good enough for the senate??

[Boges]

Many say that the senate should be elected so they would be responsible to the taxpayers, but what about the Supreme Court Judges, they aren't elected, they are appointed, so if its good enough for the high court , shouldn't it be good enough for the senate??

Excellent argument for abolishment of the Senate. Either way it's redundant.

[waldo]

I see that ol' Waldo has been posting like a demon. He needs to have the last word - substantive or not. Narcissists have lots of stamina - it's obsessively vital they have the last word......did I mention I've had him on IGNORE for quite a while?

yes Simple, you keep mentioning the ignore... every other week or so! Clearly, you have lots of stamina! Is this you laying down your own 'last word'? And as I tend to do whenever you highlight this, that original ignore stems from you taking umbrage with me calling you out for linking your call for abortion legislation to morality. That clearly set you off and you've never been able to... get over it!

nice to read you back on your "narcissists bandwagon"! You do know that's a very personal insult, right? I trust no one will report you!

here, let me add this, your latest, to a list that I've not kept current as much as I should have... is there a pattern here, Simple?:

.

.

.

Even the most cursory glance down through the post tells you that Waldo makes a good point--the remarks in question are bolded, so his point is obviously true.

yes - that's right. This is a regular ongoing posting pattern for Simple; ever whining about being insulted... ever throwing down his persistent "narcissist" nattering insults. I tallied that list of a dozen or so Simple posts... it's certainly not complete... and I believe this is now the second time I've posted that tallied list. And, of course, we had the "insult by tenor" guy follow-up and complain that I posted it.

[waldo]

Unless Trudeau kicks them out if the party, they're still Liberal Senators. It's only as brilliant as the electorate is uninformed.

no - they're Independent Senators with no attachment to the official Liberal Party caucus. The party affiliation of those newly designated Independent Senators remains their choice... but has no bearing on no longer being included within the official Liberal Party caucus. Why is this so difficult for you to (continue to) grasp?

[PIK]

This is not over yet for trudeau IMO, some of these senators have been around long before trudeau and if they have done everything by tghe book and then some youngster comes along and throws you under the bus. IMO opinion they should not put up with that. But then a day after the libs are voting themselves raises because of it.

[eyeball]

The reaction of both the NDP and the Harper Conservatives indicates that this was a brilliant move.

I think it's the negative reaction of the know-it-all's towards the positive reaction of the uninformed unwashed masses that cheers me up the most.

[Boges]

What reaction?

The NDP pick up on the mass hypocrisy of JT's move as as they moved forward a motion to accomplish just what JT proposed last week and he voted it down and the CPC said the day he pulled this stunt that this move doesn't nothing to make the Senate more accountable to the electorate.