DogOnPorch Posted January 17, 2014 Report Posted January 17, 2014 you are ridiculous. Calling me MORE names isn't going to change the origins of the Palestinian Cause. I can see that you're fairly desperate to try, mind you. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
bud Posted January 17, 2014 Report Posted January 17, 2014 you are ridiculous. because pretty much everyone in the world, including canada, u.s. and even many of the israeli politicians are calling for a palestinian state. what you're saying is that pretty much everyone in the world is supporting anti-semitism and the third reich. i think it's time for you to retire or change your username to 'ridiculous'. Quote http://whoprofits.org/
DogOnPorch Posted January 17, 2014 Report Posted January 17, 2014 you are ridiculous. because pretty much everyone in the world, including canada, u.s. and even many of the israeli politicians are calling for a palestinian state. what you're saying is that pretty much everyone in the world is supporting anti-semitism and the third reich. i think it's time for you to retire or change your username to 'ridiculous'. Name calling, again, will not help you or pretty much everybody in the world* get around the simple fact that the origins of the Palestinian Cause is antisemitism, Nazism and terrorism. One of the first acts conducted by the Mufti upon achieving power was to stage a pogrom. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1920_Nebi_Musa_riots * a logical fallacy known as 'special pleading'. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Army Guy Posted January 28, 2014 Report Posted January 28, 2014 A key point is this: no one seems to be really arguing the case that Islamist terrorists aren't committing...well, terrorism. It's those who feel the perverse need to defend any and all depredations by the Western states--and them alone--who are intent on narrowing the focus of discussion, so that the West makes "mistakes"....but is never TRULY at fault. Heck, who has the patience for this sort of self-indulgent blindness? Perhaps one could ask the question did Sadam and his nut bar regime need to be replaced or destroyed. and at what cost do we draw the line in the sand for this task one trillion, 10 ,20 trillion. Or do we just destroy his regime, and move on like we did in Lybia. If the cost is to much then do we "as in the rest of the world" just let them go about bussiness as usual hoping the problem just goes away, letting them do as they see fit to anyone in the region, let alone their own people. Iraq was a nation made up of dozens of factions all vying for power and control, held together by shear fear with Sadam regime....take the fear away and now all these factions have an axe to grind, all vying for power and are willing to be violent to the extreme to get a piece of it.....And while that is not just a problem in the middle east , but world wide many say it is a big part of middle eastern culture...some would say they thrive on being controled by dictatorship. And yet we all want to place the blame at the feet of the west....when this problem is large enough for everyone to own a piece of. Take the factions for one , very few have opted to take the peaceful solution, instead resorting to extreme violence...The Middle eastern region, what has the middle eastern coalition done to help solve this problem, or do they want it solved, as most of their countries are ripe for the same thing, dictatorships falling and democracy raising....who is suppling all the wpns and ammo for these guys to use, who is letting their country men go and fight...Why has the UN not taken a bigger role in making peace.... So to answer your question does the west need to own there share of the problem, Yes, but so do alot of people , to include the Iraqi people who will be still fighting long after the US pulls it's troops from Iraq. Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Hudson Jones Posted January 29, 2014 Report Posted January 29, 2014 Perhaps one could ask the question did Sadam and his nut bar regime need to be replaced or destroyed. The answer is, no. Let them sort it out on their own and with time. The reason is: Because we have seen what the outcome has been. Most recently: Afghanistan and Iraq. Quote When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always. Gandhi
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 29, 2014 Report Posted January 29, 2014 ...The reason is: Because we have seen what the outcome has been. Most recently: Afghanistan and Iraq. No, most recently would be Libya. Guess bombing those locals was OK, eh ? Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Hudson Jones Posted January 29, 2014 Report Posted January 29, 2014 (edited) No, most recently would be Libya. Guess bombing those locals was OK, eh ? Libya is another example. I'm not stuck in some cheerleading corner for a political party, cheering on some team and pretending they don't exist or trying to justify the HUGE mistakes that have been made. Edited January 29, 2014 by Hudson Jones Quote When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always. Gandhi
Army Guy Posted January 29, 2014 Report Posted January 29, 2014 The answer is, no. Let them sort it out on their own and with time. The reason is: Because we have seen what the outcome has been. Most recently: Afghanistan and Iraq. So i take it as long as it has no effect on our hockey, pogy checks, we are good to go. And yet you've spent most of your time blogging about Israels crimes...So events in other nations do concern you, your just not for any direct action or polictical inter vention again'st said states. Much like we did in Rwanda, 1000's died because we sat and watched. Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
GostHacked Posted January 29, 2014 Author Report Posted January 29, 2014 So i take it as long as it has no effect on our hockey, pogy checks, we are good to go. And yet you've spent most of your time blogging about Israels crimes...So events in other nations do concern you, your just not for any direct action or polictical inter vention again'st said states. Much like we did in Rwanda, 1000's died because we sat and watched. But that is society in general. Most don't care unless and until if affects them directly. Apathy, complacency, ignorance, vapidness, materialistic, lack of intelligence, all desirable qualities these days. Quote
Army Guy Posted January 29, 2014 Report Posted January 29, 2014 I disagree, every time those commercials come on for save a child, from this and that around the globe , canadians open their wallets and send money....i think in general they do care, but i do think it has limits.... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
GostHacked Posted January 29, 2014 Author Report Posted January 29, 2014 I disagree, every time those commercials come on for save a child, from this and that around the globe , canadians open their wallets and send money....i think in general they do care, but i do think it has limits.... We open are wallets, make a payment and we feel good about ourselves for doing minimal work to solve the issue. Most of those who give to these children will not give a dime to a homeless person. Those commercials are still running? I saw them back in the 1980s. Guess we need to throw more money at it. Quote
GostHacked Posted January 29, 2014 Author Report Posted January 29, 2014 Not to mention I've posted a few times where Iraq is experiencing weekly bombing that take out scores of people. Very few replies. These bombings have been going on since the US troop withdraw. How much do people really care? We buy stuff made with slave labour overseas. Instead of treating workers with dignity and respect we see Foxconn intall nets around their facilities to prevent suicides. That is the solution to the problem it seems. But does that deal with the root cause of why they are jumping? We knew this was going to be the situation in Iraq once Saddam was taken out and the US left. It was predicted, and laughed at. Quote
Hudson Jones Posted January 29, 2014 Report Posted January 29, 2014 (edited) So i take it as long as it has no effect on our hockey, pogy checks, we are good to go. And yet you've spent most of your time blogging about Israels crimes...So events in other nations do concern you, your just not for any direct action or polictical inter vention again'st said states. The are two problems with what you are saying: 1 - Our political and financial support for Israel enables Israel to continue what it's doing. If there was no political and financial aid to Israel, when they are continuously violating international law, then I am quite certain that the conflict would be resolved by now. 2 - I point to and comment on Israel's crimes precisely for the above reason. We are partly responsible for allowing Isreal to go on with their violations. However, when it comes to most other conflicts, we manage to stay true to the standards of international law and human rights law. Edited January 30, 2014 by Hudson Jones Quote When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always. Gandhi
Michael Hardner Posted January 30, 2014 Report Posted January 30, 2014 We open are wallets, make a payment and we feel good about ourselves for doing minimal work to solve the issue. Most of those who give to these children will not give a dime to a homeless person. Those commercials are still running? I saw them back in the 1980s. Guess we need to throw more money at it. How can you say that such people wouldn't give a dime to a homeless person ? There's no way to prove that. These organizations are based on the idea of charity, ie. there are people who want to help others out of the good of their hearts. Edited to add: After I posted this I realized that I contributed to thread drift here. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 30, 2014 Report Posted January 30, 2014 1 - Our political and financial support for Israel enables Israel to continue what it's doing. If there was no political and financial aid to Israel, when they are continuously violating international law, then I am quite certain that the conflict would be resolved by now. This is clearly not true for Canadian support specifically, and doubtful even if all international aid folded. Israel has and would remain a sovereign state quite capable of protecting its interests and projecting military power in the region. 2 - I point to and comment on Israel's crimes precisely for the above reason. We are partly responsible for allowing Isreal to go on with their violations. However, when it comes to most other conflicts, we manage to stay true to the standards of international law and human rights law. Not true...see Canada's actions in Somalia, the Kosovo War, Haiti (2004), and 2011's bombing of Libya. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
On Guard for Thee Posted February 1, 2014 Report Posted February 1, 2014 This is clearly not true for Canadian support specifically, and doubtful even if all international aid folded. Israel has and would remain a sovereign state quite capable of protecting its interests and projecting military power in the region. Not true...see Canada's actions in Somalia, the Kosovo War, Haiti (2004), and 2011's bombing of Libya. You actually think Israel would just soldier on without western aid, especially the 3 Billion from the US alone? I think not. Care to look at the US "actions" in the locations you mention here? Quote
DogOnPorch Posted February 1, 2014 Report Posted February 1, 2014 You actually think Israel would just soldier on without western aid, especially the 3 Billion from the US alone? I think not. Care to look at the US "actions" in the locations you mention here? What's the GDP of Israel? Pretty high, I would think. Three billion would be minor next to that. Their military out-matches the Arabs on numerous levels but particularly in command and control. Israel also makes some of the finest weapon systems on the planet. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 1, 2014 Report Posted February 1, 2014 You actually think Israel would just soldier on without western aid, especially the 3 Billion from the US alone? I think not. Care to look at the US "actions" in the locations you mention here? Of course Israel would "soldier on".....it only exists by doing so. If I may dare say so, Israel's military has many capabilities that exceed those of a far larger Canada, and yet it has not gone off on far away, out of region expeditions like Canada and the U.S. to bomb the locals. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
On Guard for Thee Posted February 1, 2014 Report Posted February 1, 2014 Of course Israel would "soldier on".....it only exists by doing so. If I may dare say so, Israel's military has many capabilities that exceed those of a far larger Canada, and yet it has not gone off on far away, out of region expeditions like Canada and the U.S. to bomb the locals. I hasten to add I fully support Israel's right to exist. I do get a little heartburn when folks, such as our PM Harper suggest that to find any fault with some of the Israli governments treatment of others such as Palestinian's is "anti semitic". He kissed you know what, which is itself a bit embarrasing, but he also failed to uphold Canadian government policy. Perhaps he forgot who he works for. Quote
DogOnPorch Posted February 1, 2014 Report Posted February 1, 2014 I hasten to add I fully support Israel's right to exist. I do get a little heartburn when folks, such as our PM Harper suggest that to find any fault with some of the Israli governments treatment of others such as Palestinian's is "anti semitic". He kissed you know what, which is itself a bit embarrasing, but he also failed to uphold Canadian government policy. Perhaps he forgot who he works for. He didn't say that, though. Did he? Be honest...need I find a transcript? Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 1, 2014 Report Posted February 1, 2014 (edited) I hasten to add I fully support Israel's right to exist. While good intentioned towards Israel, I always take exception to this statement, as Israel doesn't need support for a right to exist any more than Canada or the United States. "I support Canada's right to exist" implies an external sanction of legitimacy where none is required. Edited February 1, 2014 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
On Guard for Thee Posted February 2, 2014 Report Posted February 2, 2014 While good intentioned towards Israel, I always take exception to this statement, as Israel doesn't need support for a right to exist any more than Canada or the United States. "I support Canada's right to exist" implies an external sanction of legitimacy where none is required. Then their legitimacy should be able to withstand criticism for illegal activities. Harper trying to deflect that is just his latest faux pas. Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted February 2, 2014 Report Posted February 2, 2014 He didn't say that, though. Did he? Be honest...need I find a transcript? He certainly dud. Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted February 2, 2014 Report Posted February 2, 2014 While good intentioned towards Israel, I always take exception to this statement, as Israel doesn't need support for a right to exist any more than Canada or the United States. "I support Canada's right to exist" implies an external sanction of legitimacy where none is required. The point that you seem to be totally missing is that there are those who would say Israel is a creation of Whitehall and therefore has no right to exist. I think your comparison to Canada and the US is quite faulty. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 2, 2014 Report Posted February 2, 2014 The point that you seem to be totally missing is that there are those who would say Israel is a creation of Whitehall and therefore has no right to exist. I think your comparison to Canada and the US is quite faulty. Why is it faulty ? What makes Canada's existence more legitimate than Israel's ? A queen ? Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
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