monty16 Posted June 16, 2014 Report Posted June 16, 2014 Here's a tough question for any of the self professed ME experts. Which ME Arab country wasn't torn apart by US meddling? That is, of those that have suffered from it. Qatar and UAE have not, for two examples. When the US leaves the ME then it will once again find the relative stability it knew before the Gulf war. And it won't be because Russia is back to keep the peace. not to suggest that Russia didn't play it's part in Afghanistan either. Quote
Argus Posted June 16, 2014 Report Posted June 16, 2014 (edited) You might not mind, but if this conflict widened and drew in Iran and Saudi Arabia, anyone that purchases fuel from the Middle East certainly will. You mean those SUV driving suburbanites in BC would decide they wanted a pipeline after all? :-P We are a big oil producer. The higher the price of oil the better off this country is. Edited June 16, 2014 by Argus Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Derek 2.0 Posted June 16, 2014 Report Posted June 16, 2014 When the US leaves the ME then it will once again find the relative stability it knew before the Gulf war. And it won't be because Russia is back to keep the peace. I don’t know about stability, I suppose that’s a subjective term, but once the West achieves energy independence, the Middle East will certainly have the same level of geopolitical relevance as Africa. Quote
Argus Posted June 16, 2014 Report Posted June 16, 2014 If you superimpose a map of religions over a political division map of the area then it may become clearer; http://thesinosaudiblog.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/mid-east-religion.jpg Magnify that map and take a close look. The political boundaries are those that the West has created and ignored by most of those in the region. Their affiliations are with family, tribe, religion, and sect. They have little to no sense of affiliation to an "Iran" or "Iraq" or "Afghanistan" or "Disneyland" or ... Once one begins to understand what they believe in, what they want and what they are ready to do to get it then the situation begins to make sense. Remember that there was a civilization in Mesopotamia about 2,000 years before Christ. Local natives were running around naked, killing each other in North America at that time. Our sense of arrogance in the West that somehow we are superior and we get to set the rules keeps getting us into situations where we pay a large price in blood and treasure as they educate us to the realities of their society. Will we ever learn? So if they want to change the borders, who's stopping them? If Quebec wanted to leave, would you be willing to slaughter them by the tens of thousands to hold onto that territory? I sure wouldn't! But you know damn well things are different over there. And stop with what they were doing 2.000 years ago. All that says is while we have grown by leaps and bounds they have remained static and ignorant, culturally speaking, centuries behind the West. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Derek 2.0 Posted June 16, 2014 Report Posted June 16, 2014 You mean those SUV driving suburbanites in BC would decide they wanted a pipeline after all? :-P We are a big oil producer. The higher the price of oil the better off this country is. Certainly. A wider conflict will certainly play negatively on the world’s economy……..just as the tanker wars in the 80s did, which saw both the West and Soviets playing a part in it’s conclusion. Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted June 16, 2014 Report Posted June 16, 2014 Not really, they came from Syria. They wewr created in the aftermath of the last US invasion in Iraq. They migrated into Syria for some time but it looks like they're back. Quote
monty16 Posted June 16, 2014 Report Posted June 16, 2014 I don’t know about stability, I suppose that’s a subjective term, but once the West achieves energy independence, the Middle East will certainly have the same level of geopolitical relevance as Africa. That's fine that you don't know about stability. Few in the West do know much about what was going on in those countries after the UK colonialism died down and before the US started meddling. So pick a country, Iraq, Iran, Syria, Kuwait, Egypt, Palestine, the story is always the same. Some would have us believe the US interfered for humanitarian reasons though. Iraq taught us that it wasn't and never was! Quote
monty16 Posted June 16, 2014 Report Posted June 16, 2014 1700 dead traitors. http://rt.com/news/166092-iraq-militants-mass-executions/ The US won't bring in the helicopters until it's white people who are being threatened. Quote
Boges Posted June 16, 2014 Report Posted June 16, 2014 1700 dead traitors. http://rt.com/news/166092-iraq-militants-mass-executions/ The US won't bring in the helicopters until it's white people who are being threatened. What the Hell does that even mean? The US is being racist because they didn't squash this ISIS insurgence right away? How about they let Iran step in and squash it, clearly the Shiite majority is supported by them. Quote
Derek 2.0 Posted June 16, 2014 Report Posted June 16, 2014 That's fine that you don't know about stability. Few in the West do know much about what was going on in those countries after the UK colonialism died down and before the US started meddling. What of prior to British colonialism? The Ottomans? When do we start the baseline for this “stable Middle East”? Quote
-TSS- Posted June 16, 2014 Report Posted June 16, 2014 Why exactly is partition of Iraq out of the question? Is it only because the oil-resources are located in certain areas? Quote
dre Posted June 16, 2014 Report Posted June 16, 2014 Why exactly is partition of Iraq out of the question? Is it only because the oil-resources are located in certain areas? Its a good idea actually... Take Iraq, and Syria and carve them into two states... One predominantly Sunni, the other Shia. Maybe even give the Kurds a state. The problem is... I dont know if it would work geographically, and negotiating the new borders would probably just cause more fights. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
Argus Posted June 16, 2014 Report Posted June 16, 2014 (edited) What the Hell does that even mean? Just stop replying to him and he'll go find something eles to amuse himself with. Edited June 16, 2014 by Argus Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
monty16 Posted June 16, 2014 Report Posted June 16, 2014 (edited) What the Hell does that even mean? The US is being racist because they didn't squash this ISIS insurgence right away? How about they let Iran step in and squash it, clearly the Shiite majority is supported by them. What it means is that ISIS is busy killing Iraqis who betrayed their country and had joined the military on behalf of the occupiers. Traitors. Chop, chop. Get it? Think the same situation in Vietnam where the winners either chop, chopped or re-educated the traitors. Edited June 16, 2014 by monty16 Quote
monty16 Posted June 17, 2014 Report Posted June 17, 2014 Just stop replying to him and he'll go find something eles to amuse himself with. That would be good advice for yourself. If you can't behave then you should just ignore me. Try to not keep trying to make this about me please. Thanks! Quote
monty16 Posted June 17, 2014 Report Posted June 17, 2014 Why exactly is partition of Iraq out of the question? Is it only because the oil-resources are located in certain areas? About the same reason why the people of the US wouldn't go for having the US divided. They still think that country has something worth saving. But those who consider the people of the ME worthy of being treated like human beings and don't consider them insects will understand. Those who express their disdain and hate for all people who are not white Americuns, and who think of others as insects won't understand. Quote
monty16 Posted June 17, 2014 Report Posted June 17, 2014 http://rt.com/news/166364-special-forces-us-iraq/ 275 US troops going to Iraq. Check it out, it could be the last picture of them with their heads about them, figuratively speaking of course! Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted June 17, 2014 Report Posted June 17, 2014 Its a good idea actually... Take Iraq, and Syria and carve them into two states... One predominantly Sunni, the other Shia. Maybe even give the Kurds a state. The problem is... I dont know if it would work geographically, and negotiating the new borders would probably just cause more fights. Its a good idea actually... Take Iraq, and Syria and carve them into two states... One predominantly Sunni, the other Shia. Maybe even give the Kurds a state. The problem is... I dont know if it would work geographically, and negotiating the new borders would probably just cause more fights. I suspect you would have a hell of a time negotiating those borders. Especially since currently, if the maps the press is showing are at all accurate, the ISIS now has control of some of the best oil producing areas along with the power station that supplies most of the country. A good source of funding that I'm sure even these thugs are smart enough to know they don't want to relinquish, not without a fight. So I guess we are back to a fight, in any case. It's gonna get nasty I bet. It will certainly be interesting to see how the Iran/US get their heads together on this. Quote
Big Guy Posted June 17, 2014 Report Posted June 17, 2014 Its a good idea actually... Take Iraq, and Syria and carve them into two states... One predominantly Sunni, the other Shia. Maybe even give the Kurds a state. The problem is... I dont know if it would work geographically, and negotiating the new borders would probably just cause more fights. That is the tragedy of the current world situation. Humans will generally resolve their differences when they are in control of their situation. I believe that it is natural for our species to compromise to end killing. When groups of people are not allowed to resolve their own differences and outsiders get involved than I equate the process with a mixing of oil and water. The mixture can be forced into a temporary compound - but it will eventually end up with a solution where oil seeks its own level and the water does the same. It will stay in those two touching but stable separate states until an external force is applied to again force a temporary compound. If left alone, that area would separate itself into borders based on the views of the individuals, their affiliations and their needs. But - with all that oil over there nobody is going to leave them alone. Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
Topaz Posted June 17, 2014 Report Posted June 17, 2014 The US should have let Hussein alone and then we wouldn't have the problem we have now and I bet many more world leaders are thinking the same thing. Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted June 17, 2014 Report Posted June 17, 2014 The US should have let Hussein alone and then we wouldn't have the problem we have now and I bet many more world leaders are thinking the same thing. Especially when it is not quite clear, to this day, what the hell Bush was trying to achieve. There was no WMD, and the 9-11 guys came mostly from Saudi. Maybe he was pissed off that one of the major hotels in downtown Baghdad had a likeness of his father tiled into the floor that you had to walk over as you entered. Quote
monty16 Posted June 17, 2014 Report Posted June 17, 2014 Especially when it is not quite clear, to this day, what the hell Bush was trying to achieve. There was no WMD, and the 9-11 guys came mostly from Saudi. Maybe he was pissed off that one of the major hotels in downtown Baghdad had a likeness of his father tiled into the floor that you had to walk over as you entered. Well ya never know do you! Here we are thinking it was for the oil and then you go and suggest something as dumbass as it was maybe for Iraq's cabbage crop. No, you have to be joking. I've never heard you display that level of ignorance and crassness in the past on this forum. Yup, gotta be a joke. hundreds of thousands of dead Iraqis and counting. Some fukin joke! Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted June 17, 2014 Report Posted June 17, 2014 Well ya never know do you! Here we are thinking it was for the oil and then you go and suggest something as dumbass as it was maybe for Iraq's cabbage crop. No, you have to be joking. I've never heard you display that level of ignorance and crassness in the past on this forum. Yup, gotta be a joke. hundreds of thousands of dead Iraqis and counting. Some fukin joke! Well the latter part was a bit of a joke, although said hotel does exist. It's OK to have a sense of humor ya know. And do you know it was about oil? Quote
waldo Posted June 17, 2014 Report Posted June 17, 2014 the U.S. broke it... the U.S. can fix it! In keeping with the past Cheney/Rumsfeld declarations one can expect that if the U.S. "goes in again", "it will be greeted as a liberator... and it might last 5 days, 5 weeks or 5 months, but certainly not any longer than that!" Quote
GostHacked Posted June 18, 2014 Author Report Posted June 18, 2014 I'll add to that Waldo. http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2014/06/18/cheney-rips-obama-over-foreign-policy-in-op-ed/?hpt=hp_t2 Washington (CNN) Former Vice President Dick Cheney and daughter Liz Cheney penned a scathing op-ed in which they offered a blistering critique of President Barack Obama’s handling of the escalating violence in Iraq. "Rarely has a U.S. president been so wrong about so much at the expense of so many," the wrote Cheney and his daughter, a conservative pundit and former State Department official in the Bush administration, in an opinion piece for the Wall Street Journal. "Instead, he abandoned Iraq and we are watching American defeat snatched from the jaws of victory." The rest of the article kind of rips Cheney a new one. Like he needs another one. Irony. Quote
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