Do we still have a 40 hour work week?

[Shady]

Negotiations are a two-way street. But GM's problems stemmed from mismanagement and producing an inferior product. I don't agree that we should go back to pre-union worker slavery just because some people got their Viagra covered.

False choice. No need to go to so-called pre-union slavery. Part of GM's mismanagement was giving into outlandish union demands, that caused an increased cost of vehicles which along with poor quality caused significant problems. The moral of the story, build better quality vehicles, and pay for your own boner medication. To do so isn't tantamount to slavery.

[Topaz]

False choice. No need to go to so-called pre-union slavery. Part of GM's mismanagement was giving into outlandish union demands, that caused an increased cost of vehicles which along with poor quality caused significant problems. The moral of the story, build better quality vehicles, and pay for your own boner medication. To do so isn't tantamount to slavery.

Shady, have you ever belong to a union? If no, are you management? If no, what kind of job do you have and do you pay for your medications? just trying to understand your views.

[BC_chick]

Come on Shady. Never heard of the Canadian Labour Code? Your own Ontario Employment Standards Act? Statutory Holidays? Minimum annual vacation? Transport Canada regulations regarding maximum duty and minimum rest periods for people in the transport industry? Just to name a few. You think they exist because industry asked for them?

Well put and conveniently ignored.

Yep, that's the sound of you winning that debate.

[Argus]

The OP bemoans the loss of a "40 hour work week". Back in the 80's, we would say that "lunch is for wimps".

But the real question would be to the people in Germany, who would recommend psychiatric treatment for you and that sort of attitude, not live better, fuller lives than Americans constantly, desperately, frantically scrambling after the gold ring? Would the laid-back French or the heavily unionized Swedes and Norwegians who have less stress, crime, poverty, pollution, and who have long holidays and enjoy life, want to trade that for long hours with no benefits and no job security in America?

I know I wouldn't.

[Argus]

The middle class is still growing, but such growth is not confined to the countries who have always had the historical economic advantages.

Well, it might be growing elsewhere, but it's not growing in your country, bud, the land of the free. It's shrinking.

http://billmoyers.com/2013/09/20/by-the-numbers-the-incredibly-shrinking-american-middle-class/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/06/middle-class-jobs-income-_n_3386157.html

Edited January 3, 2014 by Argus

[Argus]

False choice. No need to go to so-called pre-union slavery. Part of GM's mismanagement was giving into outlandish union demands, that caused an increased cost of vehicles which along with poor quality caused significant problems. The moral of the story, build better quality vehicles, and pay for your own boner medication. To do so isn't tantamount to slavery.

Japanese auto unions got huge raises this year, includoing bonuses worth six months wages from Toyota. Then again, Japan has national health care, so the costs of health care aren't dumped onto the backs of corporations.

[bush_cheney2004]

Well, it might be growing elsewhere, but it's not growing in your country, bud, the land of the free. It's shrinking.

It's not growing in your country either, bud, it's shrinking. I certainly don't think my employment is dependent on a growing middle class in Canada, but it is dependent on a growing middle class in India or China.

[Shady]

Japanese auto unions got huge raises this year, includoing bonuses worth six months wages from Toyota. Then again, Japan has national health care, so the costs of health care aren't dumped onto the backs of corporations.

Japanese productivity is much greater than in North America. Regardless, the Japanese economy has been stagnant for quite a long time. It's not referred to as the lost decade for nothing.

[BubberMiley]

False choice. No need to go to so-called pre-union slavery.

Of course there's no need. Yet you still advocate for it.

[Shady]

Of course there's no need. Yet you still advocate for it.

Complete and utter nonsense. Advocating for choice isn't tantamount to slavery. Your hyperbole knows no bounds.

[BubberMiley]

Complete and utter nonsense. Advocating for choice isn't tantamount to slavery. Your hyperbole knows no bounds.

The only thing preventing wage slavery is unionization and the only thing protecting unions is the assurance that shops are staffed by union workers. So yes, by calling for the dissolution of current labour laws relating to union membership, you are calling for the further disintegration of the middle class that only came about because of those laws.

[Shady]

The only thing preventing wage slavery is unionization and the only thing protecting unions is the assurance that shops are staffed by union workers. So yes, by calling for the dissolution of current labour laws relating to union membership, you are calling for the further disintegration of the middle class that only came about because of those laws.

No idea what wage slavery is. Just more hyperbole. Just like saying any change in labour laws means the same thing. Completely absurd.

[bush_cheney2004]

Union membership in Canada remains stronger relative to unionization in the U.S., so how does that correlate to the shrinking middle class in Canada ?

[BubberMiley]

No idea what wage slavery is. Just more hyperbole.

No, it's a real thing. It often happens when there is no unionization. Here's the wikipedia page to help you out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wage_slavery

[GostHacked]

No idea what wage slavery is. Just more hyperbole. Just like saying any change in labour laws means the same thing. Completely absurd.

Read BubberMiley's reply again. I think you completely missed the point he was making.

[Wilber]

Japanese productivity is much greater than in North America. Regardless, the Japanese economy has been stagnanis attention for quite a long time. It's not referred to as the lost decade for nothing.

As one who worked for the Japanese and spent a lot of time in Japan during the 90's, it is my firm opinion that Japanese productivity is lower if anything. Their forte is attention to detail, not productivity. I think the same could be said for Germany.

[GostHacked]

As one who worked for the Japanese and spent a lot of time in Japan during the 90's, it is my firm opinion that Japanese productivity is lower if anything. Their forte is attention to detail, not productivity. I think the same could be said for Germany.

Sometimes quality over quantity is better.

[Wilber]

Sometimes quality over quantity is better.

If you can't compete on lowest cost I

Sometimes quality over quantity is better.

If you can't compete at the bottom end of a market it is the only way to go. Who dominatescthe high end car market? The Germans and Japanese. High end optics and electronics? Pretty much the same. Want the best watch. Swiss.

[Argus]

Sometimes quality over quantity is better.

For years and years American cars were crappy compared to the Japanese, and it's the quality which won over so many buyers in North America, not the prices. American cars are still cheaper than Japanese cars, but people prefer Japanese - and now Koreans, for their reliability. Even though they've improved a lot, American cars are still generally not as reliable as German and Japanese (and Korean) cars.

When I was looking for a small SUV a couple of years ago I, in my precise way, looked up every manufacturer to see what they had to offer. Every non-American manufacturer had at least one model I could consider. None of the Americans had any small SUVs, only big monsters. There was Jeep, of course, but it's had such a longstanding reputation for unreliability I never even looked at them. So I bought a Hyundai.

Edited January 5, 2014 by Argus

[Michael Hardner]

For years and years American cars were crappy compared to the Japanese, and it's the quality which won over so many buyers in North America, not the prices. American cars are still cheaper than Japanese cars, but people prefer Japanese - and now Koreans, for their reliability. Even though they've improved a lot, American cars are still generally not as reliable as German and Japanese (and Korean) cars.

This is true. I don't know a lot about cars, but a friend who is a mechanical engineer swears by American cars because the extra price for imports doesn't justify the improved quality today. He also recommends buying slightly older used vehicles for reduced depreciation costs.

[bush_cheney2004]

This is true. I don't know a lot about cars, but a friend who is a mechanical engineer swears by American cars because the extra price for imports doesn't justify the improved quality today. He also recommends buying slightly older used vehicles for reduced depreciation costs.

Domestic and imported parts content for all makes blurs any such distinction these days. My "German" make automobile was manufactured in Mexico with parts from all over the world. The Americans actually taught the Japanese about quality assurance concepts after WW2 (Dr. W. Edwards Deming), but they still had a tough road to hoe, just like the Koreans (Hyundai and Kia were jokes in the industry at initial entry into NA market). However, Kia did make a good English style bicycle!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._Edwards_Deming#Work_in_Japan

[Wilber]

It is very blurred. Where it is assembled is less important than who designed it and overseeing quality control. I had a Brazillian assembled German car and my American truck was put together in Mexico. No complaints about either of them. My present German car was built in Germany but I don't really expect it to be better just because of it.

[GostHacked]

This is true. I don't know a lot about cars, but a friend who is a mechanical engineer swears by American cars because the extra price for imports doesn't justify the improved quality today. He also recommends buying slightly older used vehicles for reduced depreciation costs.

Even north american auto makers get parts from all over the world. I think it's more of a tax/tarrif of these imports to keep NA products affordable and attractive. They will tax the stuff for Japanese imports, but won't tax a similar item made there for a north american vehicle (as a scenario).

I drive a older Subaru and really like the car. Even close to 20 years old, rides better than most of my friends vechilces which are half the age. The rust is another thing, bought it used, and I did not undercoat it one year. Payed about 2G for the car and parts for certification, and still going strong since i bought it 4 years ago.

My personal experience with owning vehicles is limited, only owned 3, and all were used cars. There is no need to buy a brand new car. A car that is slightly used can save you a lot of money.