Do children need to be beaten more?

[Argus]

I am wondering whether we have made life so easy, so lacking in stress or challenge, whether we as a society have gone so far into overprotective mode, that children are growing up without any ability to cop with the inevitable problems and challenges life will hand them.

Schools seem more concerned with ensuring a child feels good about him/herself than teaching them, and parents are taught to never hit children, and to never let them out of their sight. We have kids who are now teenagers who aren't allowed to go anywhere mom or dad doesn't take them, whose lives have been organized and will contiue to be organized by adults. No road hockey for them. Instead it's all adult-organized sports, arts and 'play dates' supervised by more adults.

These kids emerge as adults in mame only, never having faced challenges on their own, emotionally weak and lacking the necessary backbones hard times bring. Suicide rates are rising among Canadian university students amid what CTV has called an 'epidemic of mental health problems', and we've all heard ad nauseum about the younger kids killing themselves over 'bullying' including 'cyberbullying'.

Bullies existed in my day, of course. I certainly knew a few. But no one even thought of killing themselves over bullying. Were we simply tougher? Did we have less expectation that life would always be sunshine and lolipops?

Has letting children coast through life, with mommy and daddy taking care of everything left them mentally and emotionally succeptible to any sudden sharp shock? Do need, perhaps to make their lives rougher and less protected when young? And if not can we really blame them emerging into a semi-adulthood of being a twentysomething who still runs crying to mommy whenever he or she faces problems?

[TimG]

Bullies existed in my day, of course. I certainly knew a few. But no one even thought of killing themselves over bullying. Were we simply tougher? Did we have less expectation that life would always be sunshine and lolipops?

In your days people who committed suicide did not get worldwide publicity unless they were already famous. These suicides are less about bullies and more about emotionally messed up teenagers looking for recognition and validation. Edited November 29, 2013 by TimG

[Guest]

I don't know about being beaten, but they need to be allowed to be beaten. They need to be allowed to fail, to fall, to skin a knee, to break an arm. They need to know the sting of disapproval. They need to know they are not special, unless they actually are.

[GostHacked]

We have gone to the opposite end where parents are afraid to discipline their kids because of the possibility of going to jail over claims of child abuse. Discipline but don't abuse.

In a sense though we are taught to be helpless. Bullies are on the rise and what is the reaction? Suicide. Have we raised some pretty weak skinned kids that this is now a real problem?

[Michael Hardner]

Fantastic. Let's all beat the children then, so they'll be good.

Some days I really wonder about this place...

[segnosaur]

Do children need to be beaten more

Of course they do... some children are tough and stringy, and need to be tenderized before cooking.

What?

Edited November 29, 2013 by segnosaur

[bleeding heart]

The idea that they "need to be beaten more" is silly. But I agree that the phenomenon of overprotective parents is possibly quite counterproductive.

My impression is that a lot this has to do with hysteria over child abductions...but the truth is, outside of the most common "abductions" (ie by the non-custodial parent)....abductions are rare, and not something that parents should focus their entire children's lives around.

[Black Dog]

[Michael Hardner]

For those who can hear over 14,000 Hz he's saying "Get offa my lawn"

[Moonlight Graham]

In your days people who committed suicide did not get worldwide publicity unless they were already famous. These suicides are less about bullies and more about emotionally messed up teenagers looking for recognition and validation.

A small few might be, but I highly doubt the majority of teen suicides are done in order to make headlines. They are done to relieve emotional/psychological pain which is unbearable.

[Moonlight Graham]

I think we should combine the knockout game with child beatings.

[TimG]

A small few might be, but I highly doubt the majority of teen suicides are done in order to make headlines. They are done to relieve emotional/psychological pain which is unbearable.

Bullies are nothing new yet teen suicides are rising. The only explanation for the change is a social environment that makes suicide an attractive option instead sucking it up and moving on. The ability to get validation through publicity is one of those changes. Edited November 29, 2013 by TimG

[Black Dog]

The idea that bullying when Argus and Nellie Olson were pushing unpopular kids off the back of the wagon on the way to the one room schoolhouse is the same as bullying in the 21st Century is pretty ludicrous. Also worth noting: teen suicide rates are lower now than they were in the 1980s and '90s. Finally, the age group seeing the greatest increase in suicide rates between 1999 and 2010 are the middle aged (35-64), who, one would assume, are the same tough guys that Argus is talking about.

So the question isn't why are kids so soft, but rather why are so many tough older folks killing themselves at such a greater rate?

[Moonlight Graham]

Bullies are nothing new yet teen suicides are rising. The only explanation for the change is a social environment that makes suicide an attractive option instead sucking it up and moving on. The ability to get validation through publicity is one of those changes.

That's not "the only explanation". Another explanation is a social environment which is psychologically more difficult for teenagers to cope with and/or an environment that has led to teenagers being less adaptable to environment stressors.

I have no doubt that being a teenager today in most Western societies is socially and psychologically more difficult than at any time since WWII. It's a crazy effed-up world.

[Moonlight Graham]

The idea that bullying when Argus and Nellie Olson were pushing unpopular kids off the back of the wagon on the way to the one room schoolhouse is the same as bullying in the 21st Century is pretty ludicrous. Also worth noting: teen suicide rates are lower now than they were in the 1980s and '90s. Finally, the age group seeing the greatest increase in suicide rates between 1999 and 2010 are the middle aged (35-64), who, one would assume, are the same tough guys that Argus is talking about.

So the question isn't why are kids so soft, but rather why are so many tough older folks killing themselves at such a greater rate?

Suicide rates are also high among the elderly. I thought those old whippersnappers were "tough" and could show us youngins a thing or 2.

[TimG]

That's not "the only explanation". Another explanation is a social environment which is psychologically more difficult for teenagers to cope with and/or an environment that has led to teenagers being less adaptable to environment stressors.

I don't buy this for a second. The environment has changed but it takes a special type of arrogance to claim it is necessarily worse than in the past. The only variable that may have changed are the way people choose to cope with stress. Edited November 29, 2013 by TimG

[Black Dog]

I don't buy this for a second. The environment has changed but it takes a special type of arrogance to claim it is necessarily worse than in the past. The only variable that may have changed are the way people choose to cope with stress.

The *only* variable?

Really?

[overthere]

I don't believe that children today are markedly different than children of any era.

What has changed is the extraordinary and most often unworthy attention that can be focused on anything via the Internet. It's a massive boon to the media, who can now get alarmed and outraged about nothing instead of actually seeking out a worthwhile story.

Another thing that has not changed is the quality of parenting. There is still the same wide range from high quality parents to the shockingly deficient. You rarely hear of the former group.

[BubberMiley]

Bullies are nothing new yet teen suicides are rising. The only explanation for the change is a social environment that makes suicide an attractive option instead sucking it up and moving on.

The other explanation is that the teen suicide rate has been stable for 40 years, as the most recent data suggests (see page 7).

http://www.suicideprevention.ca/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/StatsCan-SuicideRates_AnOverview-July2012.pdf

The only thing that has changed is the attention it gets. Bullying has existed for a very long time and teen suicide as a result of it has also existed just the same. People rarely talked about it before is all.

I suppose, however, that it's a matter of opinion whether it should be discussed or "sucked up".

Child predators have always existed too, but there is more awareness of it now. I don't think that has led to an increased rate of anxiety among young people though. Anxiety issues were always common. Back in the day, they just called it "nerves."

[bleeding heart]

So the question isn't why are kids so soft, but rather why are so many tough older folks killing themselves at such a greater rate?

Presumably we'll get a more sympathetic answer now that weakling teenagers are not the subject.

[TimG]

I suppose, however, that it's a matter of opinion whether it should be discussed or "sucked up".

Don't get me wrong - I am very much in favour of the discussions we have about bullying and the attempts to stamp it out. I just think this the collective swooning over every kid that claims they committed suicide because of a bullying is overdone. At the same time that bullies are confronted kids that are bullied need to learn better coping skills. Edited November 29, 2013 by TimG

[Argus]

In your days people who committed suicide did not get worldwide publicity unless they were already famous. These suicides are less about bullies and more about emotionally messed up teenagers looking for recognition and validation.

I don't recall anyone ever even suggesting that they could get recognition or validation from committing suicide in my day.

[Argus]

Fantastic. Let's all beat the children then, so they'll be good.

Some days I really wonder about this place...

That's because you're too literal.

[Argus]

The idea that they "need to be beaten more" is silly. But I agree that the phenomenon of overprotective parents is possibly quite counterproductive.

My impression is that a lot this has to do with hysteria over child abductions...but the truth is, outside of the most common "abductions" (ie by the non-custodial parent)....abductions are rare, and not something that parents should focus their entire children's lives around.

I agree. The thing is, I'm sure that all this overprotectiveness has kept a few kids from being abducted, has kept a few kids from being hit by cars. But suicide kills more people than murder and war combined. So we save one and lose two or three or ten more.

[Moonlight Graham]

I don't buy this for a second. The environment has changed but it takes a special type of arrogance to claim it is necessarily worse than in the past. The only variable that may have changed are the way people choose to cope with stress.

I'm with Black Dog on this. The only variable, seriously? I mean, you just admitted in the previous sentence that the environment has changed! It has, drastically.