Heinz closing

[Mighty AC]

Oddly, we seem to be better at balancing the books than we were 30 years ago, though. Why is that ?

Except, somehow, 'skilled trades' like massage therapists, home renovations, chefs and so on. There are reasons for optimism in those industries.

What about a higher minimum wage ? Are you going to still buy Starbucks if the cost goes up fifty cents ? I will.

The energy thing will only take off if there is value in alternative energy beyond feeling good about ourselves.

You can incentivize local processing in some ways as long as you're not subsidizing local goods or penalizing foreign producers. But RMTs, home renovation people and chefs are pre-localized so no problem there.

Boomers are the largest segment of the population and have had their political whims catered to. 30 years ago they were demanding social services, now they are demanding fiscal restraint, while simultaneously telling younger generations to suck it up and tighten their belts.

Only people with benefits and decent wages pay for chefs, home renovations and RMTs.

[Mighty AC]

Well... balanced books started during the liberal era under finance minister martin. They cut services, cut military spending, and offloaded most of cost of medicare to the provinces. Theres also been an increase in royalty revenue from harvesting resources.

But mainly from the brand new tax revenue created by the GST.

[Topaz]

The mayor of Leamington is meeting on friday with the company and more decision will be made then. http://blogs.windsorstar.com/2013/11/18/council-frets-over-loss-of-heinz/

[eyeball]

How long will it be until Leamington emerges as yet another contender for a marijuana industry? Tomato growers can switch to Purple Mindwarp or some such thing, convert the Heinz plant to a packaging plant, and Bobs your Uncle.

[Topaz]

Perhaps the farmers with the good soil can grow...flowers. Its a billion industry which come out Europe, like Holland. Growing wheat corn and soybeans, could drive down the prices, if they more of them on the market. Of course, they could always try to get a contract with Heinz in Ohio and drive their load there. I knew farmers that used to deliver from Chatham-Kent to Quebec.

[Mighty AC]

It would be nice if the local producers could form a coop to both grow and process some good, be it tomato based or otherwise.

[Topaz]

It would be nice if the local producers could form a coop to both grow and process some good, be it tomato based or otherwise.

Apparently from a former worker there said its not that easy and could take up to 2 years to get into the groceries stores.

[Mighty AC]

I don't expect it would be easy and it would probably have to proceed in stages. Possibly first a production coop, with a joint marketing and selling effort. Then in time it could expand to processing. With current trade regulations, created by politicians owned by multinationals, I don't see many good options for creating secondary industry in the first world. It is far too easy to relocate most labour intensive activities to developing nations and simply sell back the finished good.

However, if a company was staffed by stakeholders with ties to a community suddenly profits aren't the sole focus and a much broader net benefit becomes the goal.

[bush_cheney2004]

What is the logic behind calls for "boycotts" of all products made by American or other foreign owned corporations that close plants in Canada ? Isn't that a self defeating strategy if the goal is to sustain operations and jobs in country ? The list of "boycotted" products and companies must be very long indeed by now !

The Heinz announcement is one in a wave of recent plant closings in the Canadian food-processing industry. Smucker’s closed its Bick’s Pickles plant in Dunnville, Ont., and pickle tank farm near Delhi, Ont., last year, wiping out 150 jobs.

Lance Canada Ltd.’s bakery in Cambridge, which employs 130 people, will close in May, the company’s North Carolina parent said. Canada Bread Co. Ltd and Kraft Foods Group Inc. are expected to close plants in Shawinigan, Que., and Oakville, Ont., respectively.

Last year, Andrew Coyne pointed out the lack of facts surrounding the closing of the always American owned EMD locomotive plant in London, Ontario, but that did not not stop the laughable calls for "boycotts" of all Caterpillar products, which would bring oil patch production and other heavy equipment operations in Canada to a standstill.

[Boges]

Sun Media is blaming the Ontario Liberals because of skyrocketing electricity prices.

The last Peach cannery in Ontario also recently closed.

I think there's something to be said about the cost of doing business in this province. A few hours down south it's much cheaper to do business.

[GostHacked]

There has been an issue for years where re-processors can import ingredients (i.e. apples) from places like China and label the package (i.e. juice) as made in Canada. Canadian farmers lobbied to change the rules to better match what consumers expect when they see a made in Canada label.

I am with you on this concern, and we do need labels of origin. But I will use your argument against GMOs that it would cost food companies money to put the label on. We need clarity to be properly informed of what we are really eating.

The concern of tainted stuff from China is very real and we have seen many instanced of that. Baby formula for one.

The label that says 'Made in Canada' is very very misleading and misrepresenting the product. Essentially it's fraud.

[Mighty AC]

Sun Media is blaming the Ontario Liberals because of skyrocketing electricity prices.

The last Peach cannery in Ontario also recently closed.

I think there's something to be said about the cost of doing business in this province. A few hours down south it's much cheaper to do business.

A low dollar and taxpayer subsidized healthcare kept US companies operating in Canada for an extended period of time, but the loonie ain't cheap no more. Manufacturing businesses are fleeing the US as well. Partisans will always find BS ways to blame various parties, but with open trade regulations the loss of secondary industry in the first world is inevitable.

Stakeholder owned businesses like coops, whose goal is more than just profit could make a small dent in this trend. If, at some point, we are forced to pay the true cost of fossil fuels and shipping costs rise it may become advantageous to manufacture more locally as well. For the time being though, Canada and the US will continue to lose secondary industry jobs and see wages erode.

Movin to the country gonna eat me a lot of peaches

Peaches come from a can they were put there by a man, in a factory downtown

If I had my little way I'd eat peaches every day

Sun soakin bulges in the shade

Edited November 21, 2013 by Mighty AC

[bush_cheney2004]

Actually, manufacturing is on the rebound in the U.S. as overseas wages rise and American labour accepts concessions in wages and benefits, eroding the power of unions. Canadian manufacturing will keep taking hits from several sides (hydro costs, lower productivity, dollar value, etc.), and more plants will close. Add some more Ontario debt on top of debt and the picture is not good. Ketchup will be the least of their worries.

[Mighty AC]

Yep, eroding wages and benefits are no doubt partially responsible for the minor uptick in US manufacturing jobs. This bleeding of middle class wealth and the lion's share of the tax base is occurring as the DOW reaches a record high. Current trade policies may lead to positive GDP numbers and corporate wealth, but those gains are coming at the expense of the middle class. This path is not sustainable.

[bush_cheney2004]

Nevertheless, manufacturing is no longer "fleeing" the U.S., with some companies actually bringing operations back from foreign plants, including those in Canada. The U.S. dollar will continue to be devalued, adding favourable conditions for U.S. manufacturing. Having a job with lower wages is better than having no job at all.

[Boges]

Wages are relative. $10.25/hour (minimum wage in Ontario) I image, is somewhat respectable in parts of the US.

[Mighty AC]

Having a job with lower wages is better than having no job at all.

You don't see a problem with the relentless erosion of middle class wages and benefits at a time when corporate wealth is at record highs? You can obviously see the direction this is heading. How long can we continue to erode the standard of living of the bulk of the population? Where does it end?

[Boges]

You don't see a problem with the relentless erosion of middle class wages and benefits at a time when corporate wealth is at record highs? You can obviously see the direction this is heading. How long can we continue to erode the standard of living of the bulk of the population? Where does it end?

This is the problem of the developed world.

Capitalism is contingent on continued growth and yield given to shareholders.

In that system the corporation isn't beholden to the employee but the shareholder. So they can justify any cost savings.

Are we going to change the system where all jobs HAVE to pay a living wage? Then you create an anti-competitive society where people don't need to strive for more.

And what's a living wage? As I mentioned a Living wage in Canda is a lot different than in the US. Also I'm sure these jobs that go overseas are great for the people that get them, even if they only get paid a fraction of what people in the west get.

I don't see an easy answer to these debates. Ultimately there'll be a tipping point where the consumer can't support continued growth. BUT as wages go lower so do prices so people can live on less. Standard of Living is still pretty high compared to at most time in history.

Edited November 21, 2013 by Boges

[Mighty AC]

Not all jobs should pay a living wage...whatever that is. However, we are actively eroding existing wages and relocating higher wage positions. Plus, it's not getting cheaper to live, is it? Capitalism still operates in the presence of tariffs.

[Boges]

Not all jobs should pay a living wage...whatever that is. However, we are actively eroding existing wages and relocating higher wage positions. Plus, it's not getting cheaper to live, is it? Capitalism still operates in the presence of tariffs.

My Cell phone bill keeps going down. Driving a car keeps going up. The price of real estate climbs depending on where you live, but there are safeguards to control rent.

Places like Walmart have created an environment where people that have relatively low income can afford things they may not have been able to afford before. Foods, furniture, clothing etc.

But by undercutting other retailers it puts them out of work. It's a vicious cycle.

And I agree about higher wage jobs. But raising the minimum wage also dilutes the middle class because prices have to go up in response. You can't expect everyone's wage to go up the same percentage as the minimum wage can you?

Edited November 21, 2013 by Boges

[Mighty AC]

Unfortunately as we export secondary industry jobs more people have to rely on traditionally low paying service and retail type positions as a major source of household income. Hence the demand for livable wages for these positions is partially a symptom of our free trade policies.

Maybe protectionism isn't so bad after all.

[Michael Hardner]

Only people with benefits and decent wages pay for chefs, home renovations and RMTs.

So... who is paying for them ? I feel that these careers have exploded over the last 30 years...

[bush_cheney2004]

Not all jobs should pay a living wage...whatever that is. However, we are actively eroding existing wages and relocating higher wage positions. Plus, it's not getting cheaper to live, is it? Capitalism still operates in the presence of tariffs.

Depends on what you consider a "middle class" lifestyle to be, as that standard has certainly changed over the past 50 years. Even the so called 'working poor' have living standards that far surpass those of years gone by. People are spending discretionary income on crap nobody even dreamed of back then, and less is spent on food as a percentage of income.

[Mighty AC]

Wage erosion is the major problem, not discretionary spending. It now takes far more hours worked to achieve the same level household income. Over the last 40 years household incomes, adjusted for inflation, have remained static. However, in the early 70's the majority (+/- 70%) of households achieved that level of income with just one wage earner, while now the majority of households (+/- 75%) have two wage earners.

Edited November 22, 2013 by Mighty AC

[Boges]

I think the Baby Boom created temporary economic conditions where people could be well off doing medial work that required little skill or education. Unless people start reproducing like rabbits again, I doubt we'll see times like that again.

I don't have stats for this but I suspect the "Greatest" generation that begat the Baby Boom could be the wealthiest group of people in the history of man.

This article claims today's seniors are amongst the wealthiest people in Canada.

http://www2.macleans.ca/2013/11/19/why-seniors-shouldnt-get-discounts/