Police are shooting the mentally ill

[jacee]

I'm putting this in Provincial Politics because Special Investigations Unit is provincial.

We've discussed this issue before in the TTC shooting thread.

Now, it seems to me, police are TOTALLY out of control.

A mentally ill man was shot and killed because he didn't drop a SHOVEL on command.

http://m.thespec.com/news-story/4145495-siu-director-defends-mesic-report-as-accurate/

Mesic was shot to death during an encounter with two Hamilton Police officers on June 7. The SIU report released last week concluded the officers were justified in using lethal force, primarily because Mesic repeatedly refused to drop a shovel he was wielding.

Edited October 8, 2013 by jacee

[guyser]

Dont worry, the police brass will pick up and use that shovel to pile crap all over this story

[cybercoma]

What if he was deaf? How about then? This is getting ridiculous.

[eyeball]

Ultimately it's the people who are in charge of the police that we need to get better control of. That would be the politicians and senior bureaucrats in governments everywhere including federal and municipal. If the police aren't just following orders they're certainly taking their cue on how to handle the mentally ill from our governments and the message ranges between cracking down and getting tough to showing near complete indifference.

It's just too bad police can't seize the plight of the mentally ill the way they do cancer victims.

[jacee]

Ultimately it's the people who are in charge of the police that we need to get better control of. That would be the politicians and senior bureaucrats in governments everywhere including federal and municipal. If the police aren't just following orders they're certainly taking their cue on how to handle the mentally ill from our governments and the message ranges between cracking down and getting tough to showing near complete indifference.

It's just too bad police can't seize the plight of the mentally ill the way they do cancer victims.

Eyeball that's a really good suggestion - police involvement in fundraising for mental illness would familiarize them with people and the types of behaviours associated with mental illness.

Maybe then they wouldn't be such scaredy cats hiding behind their guns.

[eyeball]

More importantly though it might also loft mental illness into the public's consciousness which must be like cancer to our governments.

It is a good idea isn't it? I think Wilber's son is a police officer - maybe he could pass the suggestion onto someone. Hey Wilber...you there?

Given 1 in 4 Canadians will suffer a mental illness in their lifetimes it shouldn't be very hard to find lots of cops who have suffered it themselves or know someone who has.

[jacee]

Here's the contact page for Ontario SIU.

https://www.siu.on.ca/en/contact.php

It never hurts to send them a message.

There is something dreadfully wrong with a protocol for use of deadly force that justifies police killing mentally ill people or other people who fail to comprehend and/or obey a VERBAL COMMAND.

[GostHacked]

This seems to be a weekly occurrence now where a mentally ill person is shot dead by police during a confrontation. I will only mention this once as an example as we have gone through it over and over in the thread with the Toronto Police and the killing of Yatim. As it has been reported he suffered from mental issues as well.

Something needed to happen with police years ago. Why are we seeing these incidents on the rise?

[jbg]

A mentally ill man was shot and killed because he didn't drop a SHOVEL on command.

If all that is known about him is that he was mentally ill is it not possible that he looked threatening? A shovel can pose a wallop.

Heck, you can weaponize a golden retriever (link).

[Argus]

Back in the seventies it was seen as humane to close down all the asylums and to set up community treatment facilities so the mentally ill could live in the community. Problem was, they closed down all the asylums but never found the money to set up the proper treatment facilities, which would include monitoring. So the streets are full of mentally ill people. Even if they're not in the streets, it's difficult to find treatment for the mentally ill. A relative of mine is a schitzophreic, and if it weren't for his family acting on his behalf he never would have wound up being treated. Being a paranoid he wound up running away from the treatment facility and broke into his family's basement. They called the police, who fortunately, were not of the trigger-happy variety, and who seemed to content to talk him into coming out rather than shooting him.

But the issue ties in with the way police are taught now to 'control the scene' and use 'command voice' and the mindset which goes with all that, which is that you must be in control, and everyone must obey you, or else. Problem is when you're dealing with the mentally ill they don't have the same playbook. And if your only fallback is to shoot them, well, so far society seems to be pretty much okay with that.

[Wilber]

More importantly though it might also loft mental illness into the public's consciousness which must be like cancer to our governments.

It is a good idea isn't it? I think Wilber's son is a police officer - maybe he could pass the suggestion onto someone. Hey Wilber...you there?

Given 1 in 4 Canadians will suffer a mental illness in their lifetimes it shouldn't be very hard to find lots of cops who have suffered it themselves or know someone who has.

Pass on what suggestion? The average patrol officer deals with more mentally ill people in a week than most people do in a lifetime. If they shot every one they had contact with, there would be hundreds dead every day. The fact is, most of them have a lot of empathy for most of the mentally ill people they encounter. Yes, there are exceptions and some of them do go too far on occasion. A lot can depend on what kind of leadership a department has but if you want them to be social workers, train them as social workers, not police officers.

Anyhow, BC now has an independent civilian police complaints commission that looks after this stuff and believe it or not, the police are good with that. Of course, whenever it comes down on the side of the police, someone claims they are corrupt as well.

[Moonlight Graham]

"Make the world a better place, shoot the mentally ill in the face."

Would make a great police car bumper sticker.

[eyeball]

Pass on what suggestion?

That police get involved with raising funds and public awareness of mental illness. They might be able to do for mental illness what they've done for cancer.

[Mighty AC]

"Make the world a better place, shoot the mentally ill in the face."

Would make a great police car bumper sticker.

You're definitely on to something here. A whole series of stickers could be developed. "Crazy in the head? We'll make you dead" "Mentally ill? Go for the kill!"

[Mighty AC]

If all that is known about him is that he was mentally ill is it not possible that he looked threatening? A shovel can pose a wallop.

Heck, you can weaponize a golden retriever (link).

Or Sea Bass with frickn' laser beams.

[Wilber]

That police get involved with raising funds and public awareness of mental illness. They might be able to do for mental illness what they've done for cancer.

it's a thought because they have been the recipients of downloading from other services that have been cut back. Perhaps one reason they might be reluctant to get involved in a public way is the issue of social services tends to become quite political, Cancer doesn't. That's just a guess on my part but it wouldn't surprise me. I don't have any more influence with the police than you do so why doesn't everyone here suggest it to them.

[Moonlight Graham]

You're definitely on to something here. A whole series of stickers could be developed. "Crazy in the head? We'll make you dead" "Mentally ill? Go for the kill!"

"A bit of a quack? Taser to the nut-sack!"

[Keepitsimple]

Yes indeed - our "progressive" society has clearly said it's OK to let the mentally ill roam the streets - even those who can turn into wild-eyed lunatics. It's right there in the Charter of rights. Psychotic and don't want to take your meds? That's OK - it's your right. Want to live on the streets and get high on any drug you can find? That's OK too. It's your right. And who's left to keep the public safe from these loons? That's right - it's the cops. Pretty easy targets, aren't they?

[cybercoma]

Sounds like a libertarian rather than a "progressive" problem to me.

[jacee]

Yes indeed - our "progressive" society has clearly said it's OK to let the mentally ill roam the streets - even those who can turn into wild-eyed lunatics.

Are you trying to refer to someone becoming violent?

Because the phrase you've used is offensive to many who may not be violent.

It's right there in the Charter of rights. Psychotic and don't want to take your meds? That's OK - it's your right. Want to live on the streets and get high on any drug you can find? That's OK too. It's your right.

It would be helpful if there were sufficient community, medical and housing services for the mentally ill.

And who's left to keep the public safe from these loons? That's right - it's the cops. Pretty easy targets, aren't they?

That's right ... the only services available to the mentally ill are emergency rooms, cops and jails ... and too often death-by-cop.

The police are concerned about the situation too:

Police should not be front-line on mental health, chiefs say

The fact remains, however, that a police protocol that allows lethal force based on failure to obey verbal commands is a faulty protocol.

The only ones that can change the situation are the police, by improving their lethal force protocol, by containing situations and calling for additional services - eg mental health crisis team - and by lobbying and fundraising for additional community mental health services.

Edited October 10, 2013 by jacee

[AlienB]

Ok lets get this straight, they have guns, and he has a shovel. Whether he is a retard or not.. you still don't shoot someone with a shovel. unless they are a risk to someone you don't shoot people.

Holding a weapon does not = imminent threat... also lethally shooting someone holding a shovel is absurd also since a shot to an arm would seem more than sufficient to immobilize someone who is armed.

The fact they killed the guy is shocking.

Sadly I'm not sure what they are teaching but more and more cops I communicate with tend to be the instigate violence sort. Even when peaceable they are out to make an arrest. chatting leisurely.. throw on gloves start threatening, insulting and intimidating. Its is either excessive use of force or instigate a reaction because you have nothing to actually arrest the person for.

I am not against public benefit policing but I have been encountering some really a$$hole cops over the past few years, now some good cops also, but I never use to get the jerks. Its like they are recruiting leatherheads purposely to push policing as intimidating the public to submit to the police as opposed to the police to protect the public.

If people actually deserve that threatment for instigating it makes sense but bystandards shouldn't be dealing with it.

And no one should be getting killed for holding a shovel unless that shovel is already being used as a weapon, and even then it should be an accident.

My confidence in policing has steadily gone down progressively. They arn't responding to the real problems like frauds, trespass, and harassment, they won't even report them. Any criminal acts by government they tend to ignore. Meanwhile they will try to get in a fight with you for being out past midnight. It is just plain stupid what it has turned into. They are more interested in locking people down than protecting peoples interests.

Edited October 12, 2013 by AlienB

[Bonam]

\

It would be helpful if there were sufficient community, medical and housing services for the mentally ill.

We used to have that. Then lefty folk decided to shut down all the asylums.

[jbg]

We used to have that. Then lefty folk decided to shut down all the asylums.

I think it's equal opportunity neglect. When it comes to political sexiness mental health doesn't rank high until there's a tragedy, then it falls off radar again.

[jacee]

/people-with-disabilities-half-of-people-killed-by-cops-disability-rights-groups-protest/

People with disabilities half of people killed by cops; disability rights groups protest

...

For these communities, statements such as they didnt comply, they were bad kids, they were being belligerent, they looked suspicious often warrant a death sentence.Half of people killed by police have disabilities.

People with disabilities are themselves dramatically more likely to be killed by police. According to a 2013 report by the Treatment Advocacy Center and National Sheriffs Association, between 1980 and 2008 at least half of the people shot and killed by police each year in this country have mental health problems. (tinyurl.com/mjs67oa)

In many cases police were responding to requests for assistance from family or neighbors to get mental health care for the person.

People who, for example, are hearing impaired, autistic, have difficulty processing verbal information, or for other reasons of disability react atypically when approached by police are much more likely to be tasered, beaten and arrested.

... or shot and killed.

http://m.thestar.com/#/article/news/crime/2014/02/12/police_shootings_inquest_rules_deaths_as_homicides.html

.

Edited January 26, 2015 by jacee

[eyeball]

We used to have that. Then lefty folk decided to shut down all the asylums.

Only because the asylums were horror houses being run according to right-wing sensibilities.