bush_cheney2004 Posted November 13, 2014 Report Posted November 13, 2014 The U.S. House has scheduled a forcing vote for approval of the Keystone XL bitumen pipeline ASAP. Senator Mary Landrieu (D - Louisiana) is in a fight for her political life with a run off election to determine which party will win a Senate seat, so she is putting the squeeze on President Obama. Won't be long now Canada....the pipeline will happen thanks to American voters / politics. http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/keystone-xl-vote-in-u-s-house-scheduled-for-friday-1.2833730 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
eyeball Posted November 13, 2014 Report Posted November 13, 2014 Better south than west. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
Big Guy Posted November 13, 2014 Report Posted November 13, 2014 I think the pipeline will pass this hurdle. Harper will announce that Canada is going to piggy back on the USA commitment to clean up the air and Obama will then use that as an excuse to not Veto the bill. Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 13, 2014 Report Posted November 13, 2014 Better south than west. Of course...Canada will never do it as long as an easier (e.g. cheaper) solution exists. And then they will bitch about why they have higher gas prices and so many foreigners owning production. Some things never change..... Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
eyeball Posted November 13, 2014 Report Posted November 13, 2014 I'd rather bitch about high gas prices than curse the degradation of 1000 more salmon bearing water-courses. Sorry, I know you were looking forward to that but, you can thank Obama for not fulfilling all your hopes. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 13, 2014 Report Posted November 13, 2014 I'd rather bitch about high gas prices than curse the degradation of 1000 more salmon bearing water-courses. Sorry, I know you were looking forward to that but, you can thank Obama for not fulfilling all your hopes. Of course you would...we agree 100%. Let's degrade somebody else's environment instead. Canada is...special. LOL ! Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
eyeball Posted November 13, 2014 Report Posted November 13, 2014 I thought you wanted your cake and degradation too. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 13, 2014 Report Posted November 13, 2014 I thought you wanted your cake and degradation too. No, I just like mocking the cognitive dissonance evident for this and other cross border issues. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
eyeball Posted November 13, 2014 Report Posted November 13, 2014 Well there's never a shortage of dissonance around so you must be having a really good day. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 13, 2014 Report Posted November 13, 2014 For sure...every day is a good day 'round here ! Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
On Guard for Thee Posted November 13, 2014 Report Posted November 13, 2014 The U.S. House has scheduled a forcing vote for approval of the Keystone XL bitumen pipeline ASAP. Senator Mary Landrieu (D - Louisiana) is in a fight for her political life with a run off election to determine which party will win a Senate seat, so she is putting the squeeze on President Obama. Won't be long now Canada....the pipeline will happen thanks to American voters / politics. http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/keystone-xl-vote-in-u-s-house-scheduled-for-friday-1.2833730 Naw, I think Obama has already telegraphed that he will veto. One dem. senator who may end up under the bus is not worth endorsing a project that doesn't really create much in the way of long term jobs and will put the price of gas up. Quote
sharkman Posted November 14, 2014 Report Posted November 14, 2014 LOL, yeah, more supply always pushes the price up! Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted November 14, 2014 Report Posted November 14, 2014 LOL, yeah, more supply always pushes the price up! Oh and you think this pipeline will increase supply to you and me? Quote
sharkman Posted November 14, 2014 Report Posted November 14, 2014 Naw, I think Obama has already telegraphed that he will veto. One dem. senator who may end up under the bus is not worth endorsing a project that doesn't really create much in the way of long term jobs and will put the price of gas up. Let's see, you make a post about Obama and his veto intentions, and how a Dem Senator may end up under the bus. But you want me to believe when you mentioned the price of gas in the very same sentence, you were suddenly talking about Canadian gas? Your attempts to squirm are almost funny. Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted November 14, 2014 Report Posted November 14, 2014 Let's see, you make a post about Obama and his veto intentions, and how a Dem Senator may end up under the bus. But you want me to believe when you mentioned the price of gas in the very same sentence, you were suddenly talking about Canadian gas? Your attempts to squirm are almost funny. Nope, wasn't talking about any particular nationality of gas. But since you bring it up, it will be US gas that has the most likelihood of going up. Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted November 14, 2014 Report Posted November 14, 2014 Nope, wasn't talking about any particular nationality of gas. But since you bring it up, it will be US gas that has the most likelihood of going up. Squirm? not likely. Quote
Mighty AC Posted November 14, 2014 Report Posted November 14, 2014 The U.S. House has scheduled a forcing vote for approval of the Keystone XL bitumen pipeline ASAP. Senator Mary Landrieu (D - Louisiana) is in a fight for her political life with a run off election to determine which party will win a Senate seat, so she is putting the squeeze on President Obama. Won't be long now Canada....the pipeline will happen thanks to American voters / politics. American voters and politicians fighting to build a leaky pipeline through the largest aquifer in the mid-west. The first Keystone pipe, opened only 4 years ago, leaked 14 times in it's first 12 months. Why bother building around the most critical fresh water supply in the area when a few dollars can be saved... sigh. Quote "Our lives begin to end the day we stay silent about the things that matter." - Martin Luther King Jr"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities" - Voltaire
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 14, 2014 Report Posted November 14, 2014 Because that's how America got where it is today. It didn't get there by not building pipelines, refineries, and terminals. How many other "critical fresh water" aquifers are criss-crossed by thousands of miles of oil and gas pipelines ? Lots..... Canada doesn't seem to be too worried about what happens with oil spills...in the U.S. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Mighty AC Posted November 14, 2014 Report Posted November 14, 2014 Because that's how America got where it is today. It didn't get there by not building pipelines, refineries, and terminals. How many other "critical fresh water" aquifers are criss-crossed by thousands of miles of oil and gas pipelines ? Lots..... Canada doesn't seem to be too worried about what happens with oil spills...in the U.S. The Conservative government and the Republican party have been bought and paid for by the oil industry...so yeah, they are not at all concerned with destroying the most important ground water source in the US. I am though. I think it's important to fight stupidity everywhere. We certainly have made mistakes; though, ideally we learn from them and improve. In this case we're not improving. We know that, like the first Keystone installment built in 2010, XL will leak. That's a given. So why not avoid the aquifer or require a secondary trough system through sensitive areas? Of course the answer is money. Corporations would rather spend as little as possible and the politicians are already owned hence, we will soon contaminate aquifers in an area where peak water is a more pressing concern than peak oil. Dumb, dumb, dumb. Quote "Our lives begin to end the day we stay silent about the things that matter." - Martin Luther King Jr"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities" - Voltaire
TimG Posted November 14, 2014 Report Posted November 14, 2014 The Conservative government and the Republican party have been bought and paid for by the oil industry...Pathetic. You do realize that the democratic party is bought and paid for by trial lawyers and wealthy carpetbaggers looking to profit from government regulation? Or do really believe that only people you disagree with are motivated by nefarious motives? The position that the Conservatives and Republicans take on resource development are based on an understanding of how the economy really works and an understanding of what government needs to do to ensure the economy grows. We know that, like the first Keystone installment built in 2010, XL will leak. That's a given.So what? Where is the evidence that leaks will not be discovered fast enough to prevent contamination. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 14, 2014 Report Posted November 14, 2014 The Conservative government and the Republican party have been bought and paid for by the oil industry...so yeah, they are not at all concerned with destroying the most important ground water source in the US. I am though. I think it's important to fight stupidity everywhere. But it's not just the Republican party and the oil industry....petroleum production, refining, and distribution are one of the cornerstones of certainly the American and many other nations' economy's. It is not stupidity...it is purposeful and direct based on known risks and substantial rewards. We certainly have made mistakes; though, ideally we learn from them and improve. In this case we're not improving. We know that, like the first Keystone installment built in 2010, XL will leak. That's a given. So why not avoid the aquifer or require a secondary trough system through sensitive areas? Of course the answer is money. Corporations would rather spend as little as possible and the politicians are already owned hence, we will soon contaminate aquifers in an area where peak water is a more pressing concern than peak oil. Dumb, dumb, dumb. So what...let them leak. Money matters...jobs matter....energy production really matters. Did you think the U.S. that became a dominant player in fossil fuels production in North America was just going to walk away from the historical role and investment made to that energy sector ? Hell, a lot of the investment in Albertan oil patch development came from U.S. interests....good times and bad. Believing otherwise is really dumb...dumb...dumb. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Mighty AC Posted November 14, 2014 Report Posted November 14, 2014 Pathetic. You do realize that the democratic party is bought and paid for by trial lawyers and wealthy carpetbaggers looking to profit from government regulation? Or do really believe that only people you disagree with are motivated by nefarious motives? I believe we're talking about an oil pipeline here. On this issue the Cons and Repubs are the parties that have been purchased. The position that the Conservatives and Republicans take on resource development are based on an understanding of how the economy really works and an understanding of what government needs to do to ensure the economy grows. LMAO! So the real economy that is being looked after by cons and repubs can only grow if this pipeline is built through a critical aquifer and not around it? C'mon Tim. So what? Where is the evidence that leaks will not be discovered fast enough to prevent contamination. Keystone 1, a new state of the art pipe, built in 2010 with over 50 forced safety upgrades, by TransCanada leaked on a monthly basis. Multiple spills lead to thousands of gallons of oil leaking before the leaks could be repaired. This pipe leaked so frequently that TransCanada was issued a very rare corrective action notice. Keystone XL will be built and run by the same company, carrying the same material, using the same technology. Leaks will happen and the pipe will be routed directly through critical fresh water supplies in a very dry part of the country. Dumb, dumb, dumb. In May 2010, Keystone leaked 21,000 gallons in North Dakota. TransCanada stated that due to their leak detection system this was shut down in 9 minutes, yet an investigation proved it took 45. I find it odd that TransCanada considered a 21,000 gallon spill to be boast worthy. http://switchboard.nrdc.org/blogs/aswift/the_first_keystone_tar_sands_p.html Here is an additional list of US pipeline accidents and the quantities spilled. Quote "Our lives begin to end the day we stay silent about the things that matter." - Martin Luther King Jr"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities" - Voltaire
Mighty AC Posted November 14, 2014 Report Posted November 14, 2014 But it's not just the Republican party and the oil industry....petroleum production, refining, and distribution are one of the cornerstones of certainly the American and many other nations' economy's. It is not stupidity...it is purposeful and direct based on known risks and substantial rewards.Refining oil is currently necessary and hence not stupid. However, running the pipe through critical water supplies instead of around, without additional catchment systems in order to save money, is stupid. Especially in an area experiencing fresh water shortages. So what...let them leak. Money matters...jobs matter....energy production really matters. Did you think the U.S. that became a dominant player in fossil fuels production in North America was just going to walk away from the historical role and investment made to that energy sector ? Hell, a lot of the investment in Albertan oil patch development came from U.S. interests....good times and bad. Believing otherwise is really dumb...dumb...dumb.This pipe will generate billions and billions in annual revenue. Why can't money be spent on smarter routing and secondary safety systems in sensitive areas? There is plenty of money available yet the choice is being made to allow it to contaminate critical, scarce water supplies. Quote "Our lives begin to end the day we stay silent about the things that matter." - Martin Luther King Jr"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities" - Voltaire
TimG Posted November 14, 2014 Report Posted November 14, 2014 (edited) I believe we're talking about an oil pipeline here. On this issue the Cons and Repubs are the parties that have been purchased.Right because in your delusional world the Republicans could not be taking this position because it the morally correct one? It has to be because they are "bought" and paid for. I really find attitudes like yours pathetic. The fact is that almost everyone in public life *believes* they are promoting policies that serve the greater good. You can disagree with the reasoning behind their position but it is really immature to dismiss a position as "bought and paid for" unless you want to use that to describe every politician no matter what their position. Edited November 14, 2014 by TimG Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 14, 2014 Report Posted November 14, 2014 ....This pipe will generate billions and billions in annual revenue. Why can't money be spent on smarter routing and secondary safety systems in sensitive areas? There is plenty of money available yet the choice is being made to allow it to contaminate critical, scarce water supplies. Because it is a choice....an informed....purposeful...choice. There will always be leaks....too bad. The money is certainly not yours (or mine) to spend on more risk mitigation. Why aren't opponents of the current pipeline route ponying up the money to pay for a change ? Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
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