why is the u.s. suddenly crying about the use of chemical weapons?

[bud]

Here you go Bud:

"The Alawis of Syria & Lebanon follow Ibn Nusayr and are also known to be Nusayria. Many of their beliefs are very blasphemous from Islamic perspective. Their beliefs are probably the farthest away from Islam"

Bud I will repeat it one last time because this is hilarious. Alawites do not follow the teachings of Muhammed.

They follow the teachings of a relative called Ali

They do not follow the 5 sacred pillars of Islam.

They broke off from the Shiites. They are no more Shiites than Christians are Jews just because Christians evolved from Jews.

The Alawite religion also incorporates much paganism and astrology two components Islam rejects.

Alawites are also referred to as Nusayris because of their first leader.

The term Alawis came about Bud because it literally means "followers of Ali,".

Unlike Shiite Muslims they do NOT I repeat again Bud DO NOT follow Ali as God.

Alawis have been influenced by Byzantine Christianity and this is why they celebrate Christmas, Easter, and Epiphany, and use sacramental wine in some ceremonies and no Bud Muslims do not do that.

Bud have you even read what you quote? It was in the eleventh century a religious leader, th eShi'a Imam al-Hasan al-Askari originated much of the preachings, then his star pupil Ibn Nusayr followed him which is why they are also called Nusayris, (followers of Nusayr). They were also influenced by Ismaili Islam NOT Shiite Islam.

There are now 4 four Alawi collectives or cells which in turn are broken down into groups (tribes) called the Kalbiyah, Khaiyatin, Haddadin, and Matawirah. None of them agree with one another as to how to practice their faith and no none of them practice Shiite Islam as Shiites do anymore than Christians practice Judaism because some of their gospels are actually based on lessons from the Talmud preached by Jesus.

No they are not Muslim Shiite or otherwise because at least 3 of their doctrines are rejected by Islam.

One of those doctrines is incarnation or the concept that God can be made in the flesh and so created case of Ali who is then said to have created Muhammad, who is then said to have created Salman, the early Shi'ite saint. This doctrine sees the three as a trinity with Ali described as the "Meaning"; Muhammad, whom Ali created of his own light referred to as te "Name"; and Salman referred to as the "Gate."

Islam does not believe in the above.

Alawi pray the following statement, "I testify that there is no God but Ali,".

A Muslim only believes there is Allah as God, and that only Muhammed can say what Allah or God believes or stated.

l

The second belief of Alawites that is necessarily considered blasphemy by Islam is that Alwaites reject the Qur'an.

So for you to call them Muslim Bud is hilarious.

Yes they rejected as well all the traditional prayers associated with Sunni teachings but they rejected the Koran as well so they can't be Shiite. Its impossible to be Shiite and reject the Koran.

The five pillars of Islam as I stated are not followed as is followed by Muslims and so that too makes it impossible for them to be Muslim.

When they read the 5 pillars of Islam they only seem them as non binding, non divine (not the words of Allah as Muslims believe) and simply allegories.

Alawites also believe in reincarnation which Muslims absolutely reject as a concept.

Alawites also believe women do not have souls and are not reincarnated so only men are so please Bud given your reasoning don't call them Hindu as well.

Alawites believe we reincarnate several times and that we must undergo transformation seven times before we can return to take or place among the stars, where they say Ali is the prince. Not exactly Islam Bud and you would know that if you read what the religion is about.

Oh by the way Bud. Alawites believe if one is not "faithful" enough, they just might be reborn as Christians, where they must remain until atonement is complete. How about you Bud is your atonement complete?

Now see a Jew like me Bud being an "infidel" will be reborn as an animal.

Sunni Muslims have never regarded Alawites as Muslims and consider them infidel This the war between the two. Some not all Alawis refer to themselves as Muslims but not even Shiite Muslims call them that.

While the leader of the Twelver Shi'as in Lebanon, "Imam" Musa Sadr, at one point endorsed their claim to being Muslims mainstream Shiite Islam does not and this endorsement came about as a political manouver so that Iran and Hezbollah could rationalize being Shiite Muslim entities but support a non Shiite Muslim entity.

It was a political move because Hezbollah and Iran saw the Alawites of Syria the logical ally to fight the Sunni Muslims in both Lebanon and Syria.

Now Bud you can misquote or take out of context all the quotes you want including the above one that renders your assertions laughable, but it won't change what Alawites are or make them Muslim. There are blatant differences.

You might also want to ask yourself why no Iranian Imam in Iran has ever commented on whether Alawites are Shiites. They can't. They need them as allies. It would be an embarrassment to call them heretics.

more typing but 0 credibility.

you have yet to cite where you get your information that the alawites are not considered shiites. i mean, i continue to post reason and links proving my information, and you continue to do the opposite: just provide fluff, self opinion.

[bleeding heart]

of course they don't control u.s. policy. but they do have a strong say in u.s. foreign policy. this is mostly due the number of u.s. congressmen and senators they give heavy donations to. i could post the amount of money some of these politicians make from AIPAC and their reason for advocating AIPAC's agenda, but we're mostly seasoned political analysts and already know it.

I think a better way to navigate the matter is to look at the donation habits and subsequent effects of other lobbies, and compare them.

I hasten to add that I haven't done this, so I'm not trying to be authoritative about it.

But I would contend there's a much stronger and more influential lobby--influential domestically and internationally.

The Business Lobby.

Now it's true that there is no single "Business lobby," but rather multiple lobbies, ostensibly in competition.

But when it comes to ideological factors, as well as a broad influence on foreign policy directions, I think it could be argued that they are de facto a single lobby...and I think they would completely eclipse AIPAC (and all other lobbies) by a large measure.

That's my hypothesis, for what it's worth.

[bud]

i will post a longer reply later, but i thought i'd share this link if you get a chance. rarely do you see a bill not get passed when it is directly or indirectly connected with israel and the middle east.

action on syria, policy on iran and support for the military in egypt. these have been the recent major agendas in the foreign policy and how they're approached is how AIPAC wants them to be approached. bills revolving around israel always receive bipartisan support. why? because politicians know that they're jeopardizing their time in office by not being AIPAC friendly. for example, the u.s. government passed a bill to impose even heavier sanctions on iran, just as the newly elected "friendly" iranian president, who has done nothing but advocate for peaceful diplomacy. why? because that's AIPAC's hawkish approach. when, accept when it comes to AIPAC sponsored bills, do you ever see a bill be passed by a 400-20 vote?

support for AIPAC's policies is more than just ideological. there are industries who make a lot of $ when the militarily and politically aggressive policies are used.

[Rue]

more typing but 0 credibility.

you have yet to cite where you get your information that the alawites are not considered shiites. i mean, i continue to post reason and links proving my information, and you continue to do the opposite: just provide fluff, self opinion.

You need Bud to do more than simply slap together some sites you don't read. All the information I have stated comes from the very web sites you quote and do not read and other sites easily found on the web.

More to the point Bud, unlike you I have been to that part of the world and sat and learned from Sunnis, Shiites,Alawites, etc., as to how they describe their practices.

Yes some Alawites will call themselves Muslims but BUT NOT Shiite Muslims. They are neither Shiite or Sunni or Ismaili or any other type of Muslim. They are unique to themselves.

Their incorporation of paganism, Christianity, astrology, beliefs as to reincarnation and rejection of the 5 pillars of Islam or the literal translation or rigid reliance on that literal translation of the Koran mean they are not Muslim although many of them might say they believe they are more Muslim that the Muslims.

In fact they pre-dated the Muslims we call Sunni or Shiite.

In fact many of their beliefs and faith doctrine remain secret.

In fact today they are more of a political interest group than a religious group-there is also major infighting within them as to how to practice their own faith.

My job is not to educate you or stereotype any Muslim or Alawite. They can call themselves what they want.

My point was to solely expose you as being an arm chair expert who knows nothing about the Alawite and speaks on their behalf like some authority because you think you can go through life substituting wikepedia sound bits for substantial knowledge and then debate.

Alawites will speak for themselves. They do not need me to do it. If they feel they are the true Muslims that is their full right to say so. I am not questioning it but you misunderstand such statements and calling them Shiites is ludicrous. Its like calling an Australian Irish or a Christian a Jew or a Bahaii a Buddist.

Get real.

Edited September 30, 2013 by Rue

[bud]

i've posted around 10 links citing how the alawites are considered shiites.

you? you've posted 0.

after how many pages, you are still welcome to post something, anything to backup your claims. until then, i am right and you are wrong.

[Rue]

Alawites

i've posted around 10 links citing how the alawites are considered shiites.

you? you've posted 0.

after how many pages, you are still welcome to post something, anything to backup your claims. until then, i am right and you are wrong.

I will not post one web site. Web sites Bud when quoted incorrectly or out of context do not establish your credibility nor am I hear to prove I can cut and paste web sites to you. In fact Bud the fact that you think you can pass off a debate by slapping some web sites on the forum which you did not read and claim they prove what you said is hilarious.

Bud anyone can ascertain for themselves what Alawites are by reading the internet if they want. Nothing I have said is rocket science or made up. For people like me it comes from reading books or articles by Alawites as to how they want their beliefs presented not knocking off a wikepedia article that doesn't even state what you claim it does.

You were exposed once again Bud as an arm chair genius walk away and no I won't provide you any sites. Lol. Bud you fool know one. You isolate only web sites you think back your opinion up and refuse to read the others. When you googled in Alawite Bud, you saw all the other web sites. It was your choice to ignore them and no Bud I won't go get them for you. It was your choice to reject them not mine and no Bud my life is not solely based on the web sites.

Go on Bud, get off your butt and go speak to some Muslims. Lol you really are something. You want to be their champion Bud at least go talk to them.

Lol.

[bud]

Alawites

I will not post one web site.

okay. then your opinions on alawites have no weight when you are unable to backup your claims.

[dre]

I am not questioning it but you misunderstand such statements and calling them Shiites is ludicrous. Its like calling an Australian Irish or a Christian a Jew or a Bahaii a Buddist.

Its not ludicrous at all. Alawites share the key attribute that separates Shia from Sunni which is the belief that the rightfull sucessors to the prophet being his bloodline. You also have a Fatwa by the Supreme Islamic Shi'ite Council declaring that they ARE Shia, and even an Alawite mufti in the twelver community.

And a lot of Alawites DO self describe as Shia in fact Alawite leadership successfully petitioned Shia authorities to be considered as such. And not all Shia muslims consider Alawites to be Ghulat either. Its a fairly orthodox belief.

The reality is you guys are taking positions at opposing ends while the truth is somewhere in the middle.

[Rue]

Its not ludicrous at all. Alawites share the key attribute that separates Shia from Sunni which is the belief that the rightfull sucessors to the prophet being his bloodline. You also have a Fatwa by the Supreme Islamic Shi'ite Council declaring that they ARE Shia, and even an Alawite mufti in the twelver community.

And a lot of Alawites DO self describe as Shia in fact Alawite leadership successfully petitioned Shia authorities to be considered as such. And not all Shia muslims consider Alawites to be Ghulat either. Its a fairly orthodox belief.

The reality is you guys are taking positions at opposing ends while the truth is somewhere in the middle.

It is a fact that both mainstream Shiite Islam and Sunni Islam have both repudiated Alawites as Khifir.

It was precisely because of rejection from both the Shiites and Sunni Muslims, Assad was part of a movement of pan Arab nationalism that rejected Islam as the principal glue to hold Arab peoples together and instead embraced the Baath Party an Arab version of Nazism to define Arabs through this political organ.

Alawites are erroneously portrayed as religious brethren of Iranian Shiite by non Muslims who do not understand any of their religions. They are not. That is a false belief that arose from believing that since Iran supportsAssad's regime and Assad is Alawite it must be because of religious alliance. No it does not. That alliance is based on politics and a mutual dislike of Sunni Muslims across the Middle East.

It is a well known fact that Alawites have no historical link or religious connection to Iranian Shiites.

It is completely false to state they belong to the Twelver school, which is the main Shiite branch. Alawites were and have never been part of any mainstream Shiite structure and so to say there are is false.

In fact it was only in 1974 the Alawites were recognizedby Musa Sadr, a Lebanese (Twelver) Shiite cleric as fellow Twelvers and this cleric was not a representative for Iran or mainstream Shiites, just the Hezbollah, a shiite militia in Lebanon who in fact advocate a different kind of Shiitism than those in Iran and the ruling Iranian council. The ruling Iranian clergy never advocated or stated Alawites were Shiites, only this Shiite cleric did.

That came about as a result of an alliance between Hezbollah and Syria's ruling Alawite sect. At that time Hezbollah embraced Assad as their ally in a mutual war against Sunnis. Assad was already at war with Sunnis in Syria and felt the Sunnis in Lebanon were assisting them so of course he formed an alliance with Hezbollah who were also at war with the Sunnis in Lebanon.

Iran's Shiite clergy never called Alawites members of the Shiite structure and never will. In fact they have called them khifir. They do have a political alliance with both Hezbollah and Assad in Syria. There alliance with Assad is political. They both share the same enemies, Sunni Muslims, Kurds, Berbers, Jews, Israelis. That is not shared religious belief but political ones.

Alawites are in fact ethnic Arabs. Iranians are Persians.

That cultural difference alone prevents Alawites and Iranians from ever forging a true alliance let alone a religious one. There is just too much difference to ever form a true alliance. Even Hezbollah has a strained religious alliance with Iran and they are both Shiite.

It is a fact the Shiites in Iraq, Iran and Lebanon belong to the mainstream Twelver branch.

This principal form of Shiite Islam does prvide a tiny minority in Syria, concentrated in Damascus.

The population increased when hundreds of thousands of them fled the civil war in Iraq.

From their population militias tformed to defend their neighborhoods from Sunni rebels fighting Assa but they are not Alawite and do not call themselves Alawite and are allied with Alawites because of their common Sunni Muslim enemy.

Edited September 30, 2013 by Rue

[dre]

It is a fact that both mainstream Shiite Islam and Sunni Islam have both repudiated Alawites as Khifir.

Theres no question that Sunnis have done that but your claim that mainstream shia have done so requires a cite.

[bud]

Its not ludicrous at all. Alawites share the key attribute that separates Shia from Sunni which is the belief that the rightfull sucessors to the prophet being his bloodline. You also have a Fatwa by the Supreme Islamic Shi'ite Council declaring that they ARE Shia, and even an Alawite mufti in the twelver community.

And a lot of Alawites DO self describe as Shia in fact Alawite leadership successfully petitioned Shia authorities to be considered as such. And not all Shia muslims consider Alawites to be Ghulat either. Its a fairly orthodox belief.

The reality is you guys are taking positions at opposing ends while the truth is somewhere in the middle.

eh? there is no middle ground here. the alawites in syria consider themselves shiites and the major shiite groups consider them shiites. whatever rue writes is just scribbles that's coming from his confused head.

the only consistency that rue has is his consistent stubborn challenges of facts. for example:

- he tried to say that israel is actually not receiving $3 billion/year in aid from the u.s.

- he tried to say that the u.s. did not help saddam use chemical weapons, despite the official memos and documents that have been revealed

there are more instances where he's gone head on challenging indisputable facts, but i don't think confused people like him should be given too much attention.

[DogOnPorch]

- he tried to say that israel is actually not receiving $3 billion/year in aid from the u.s.

- he tried to say that the u.s. did not help saddam use chemical weapons, despite the official memos and documents that have been revealed

So for 3 billion, the USA gets absolutely nothing from Israel, Good money flushed down the toilet. Is that the used car you're selling?

The US provided a certain amount of thiodiglycol to Iraq which is deemed a duel use technology/chemical. Do you have proof it went to mustard agent and not ink for newsprint?

Edited October 1, 2013 by DogOnPorch

[Rue]

Theres no question that Sunnis have done that but your claim that mainstream shia have done so requires a cite.

http://www.arabnewsblog.net/2013/07/25/shiite-twelvers-and-alawites/

[Rue]

Also Dre go to:

http://angryarab.blogspot.ca/2013/03/so-what-do-shiite-twelvers-think-of.html

which states in a nutshell:

"If we go by the book, most ‘orthodox’ Twelver clerics would still judge the Alawites, based on the beliefs and practices of their masses, as non-believers (kuffar). "

The above article is an explanation as to why the Lebanse cleric recognized Alawites as confused or misdirected or lost Shiites. even that clergy did not endorse their version of faith as Shiite Islam.

What Bud did was not bother to read the sites he was posting and thinks because Alawites are referred to as an offshoot of Shiites they must be Shiites. As I said no more than Christians are Jews.

Mainstream Shiites will not recognize them as Shiites. They can not. There are far too many religious differences. Shiites can not embrace a religion that uses win in its rituals, worships the moon and the sun and other pagan holidays and incorporates Christianity, reincarnation and other concepts in direct contradiction to Shiite Islam.

Alawites have an alliance with Hezbollah and Iran for political reasons not religious ones.

If the Alawites and displaced Shiites of Iraq in Syria and Hezbollah would not have Sunni Muslims as their main enemy they would turn on one another.

They are allies only because of that common ally. Even their mutual dislike of Israel did not keep them together.

The biggest schism is between Sunni and Alawites. The leader of the fundemenalist extremist Wahabi sect of Sunni Islam has referred to Alawites as worse than

Christians or Jews.

Now when you and Bud need to know about Alawites stop asking me, go find out for yourself. Try go outside the wikepedia world you live in and your limited internet sites.

I criticize the two of you because you wax on about people you make no effort to even find out about before you post.

Bud's attempts to lecture people as an authority when he depends on Wikepedia as his base of knowledge means what?

I also repeat again, I have no opinions as to what Alawites want to call themselves or how Sunnis or Shiites want to call themselves. They want to enter into disputes as to who the real Muslim is its not my concern. Many people have many opinions on how they wish to be identified. Some Alawites argue they are Muslim, others do not and in fact distance themselves from that word. There are 5 sects of Alawites-each with different views. I do not speak for them, Shiites, Sunnis or Ismailis who of all Muslims are probably the closet in faith to Alawites.

Muslims must decide amongst themselves how to find peace with one another. In that sense they have a never ending debate between their many sects or factions as Christians or Jews do.

As a person of this century, I find all organized religions equally as problematic in regards to their orthodoxy. If people want to use these faiths as excuses to hate each other, control each other, justify their own bigotry, I could care less who they are, I don't like them and will spray them with a water hose if they come on my lawn.

The only thing I know is the moment someone says they are speaking the word of God they are expressing their own subjective opinion posed as the word of God.

When I want to find divine essence I will watch how water flows in a river or the process of the 4 seasons or many other processes in nature. Its a lot less judgemental and is subtle in how it hints at the never ending flow of creation.

When people talk religion they tend to grow beards and forget to shower.

Edited October 1, 2013 by Rue

[bud]

.

Edited October 2, 2013 by bud

[Rue]

- he tried to say that israel is actually not receiving $3 billion/year in aid from the u.s.

- he tried to say that the u.s. did not help saddam use chemical weapons, despite the official memos and documents that have been revealed

there are more instances where he's gone head on challenging indisputable facts, but i don't think confused people like him should be given too much attention.

Your first allegation is false. I never tried to say things. I wrote them, In fact I challenged your assertion that Israel received welfare from the US or one sided aid they do not have to pay back. Your attempting to change what you alleged and what I challenged Bud is a deliberate misrepresentation of what you stated and were challenged on.

In regards to your second allegation I did not try to say, I in fact responded in writing and challenged your statement that the US helped Hussein use chemical weapons. They did not.

You provided no indisputable facts or even facts. You provided your subjective opinions and as you always do you try pose them as facts when they are only subjective opinions based on false assumptions as I and so many others expose.

When you are exposed you pretend you were not.

In regards to your ludicrous allegation that Alawites are Shiites and members of the Twelvers you have again been exposed. Your web sites in fact contradicted your very claims.

You know nothing about Alawites. You tried to pass of a wikepedia article as your basis of knowledge.

You want a fact Bud-the fact is you try pass yourself off as an authority on the Middle East, Alawites, etc., and state your subjective assumptions as if they are fact. When challenged on them, your only tactic is to what Bud? Tell me I must give you a citation?

Lol.

Right Bud.

yo

Bud I am not your keeper. If you want to go through life bluffing about topics you know nothing about its not my role to tell you to make an effort to read more than a web site you think backs up your subjective opinion.

Bud you have made it clear you can only hear your own opinions. Why would I provide cites you would never read. Lol. You are something Bud. Alawites are Twelvers. Lol.

This just in, Jews are Scientologists-Tom Cruise was seen eating a bagel.

[guyser]

You cant be serious ...really?

In fact I challenged your assertion that Israel received welfare from the US or one sided aid they do not have to pay back.

[DogOnPorch]

You cant be serious ...really?

Do you believe that America gets nothing out of its relationship with Israel? Aren't companies like Rafael giving back to US defense interests?

[bud]

Mainstream Shiites will not recognize them as Shiites.

mainstream shiites recognize the alawites as shiites. i'm not sure what planet you get your information from.

both khomeini and al sadr, the leaders of the biggest shiite groups and most mainstream shiite groups have both recognized the alawites as shiites. think about that for a second, before you reach into the confused head of yours and start typing one of your empty essays.

[guyser]

Do you believe that America gets nothing out of its relationship with Israel? Aren't companies like Rafael giving back to US defense interests?

Of course they do.

Canada gets lots out of the relationship with the US and vice versa.

Of course we dont get $3B a year in handouts from them either.

Rues assertion that Israel pays the monies back is ludicrous.

[Rue]

mainstream shiites recognize the alawites as shiites. i'm not sure what planet you get your information from.

both khomeini and al sadr, the leaders of the biggest shiite groups and most mainstream shiite groups have both recognized the alawites as shiites. think about that for a second, before you reach into the confused head of yours and start typing one of your empty essays.

Khomeini has never supported the religious views of the Alawites. How about you actually go and read what he said.

Al Sadr has never been a mainstream Shiite.

You would know both Bud and nit make such statements if you made an effort to research the subject before you bluff your way through it Bud.

Your own sources or the ones I provided prove you dead wrong.

What planet am I on?

Lol the one Bud you hide from because it does not reflect your image.

Edited October 4, 2013 by Rue

[DogOnPorch]

Of course they do.

Canada gets lots out of the relationship with the US and vice versa.

Of course we dont get $3B a year in handouts from them either.

Rues assertion that Israel pays the monies back is ludicrous.

At first you say America does get a return on its military investment in Israel then you say that Israel takes it as a 'handout'. Which is it again?

[Rue]

Rues assertion that Israel pays the monies back is ludicrous.

First off start with this before you pose as an expert on US aid to Israel because its already clear you do not understand the difference between foreign aid and military aid and why that difference makes your denial ludicrious:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/RL33222.pdf

74% of aid given to Israel goes right back to the US to purchase US military goods.

So to suggest that does not benefit the US is ludicrous.

Your problem is you don't make an effort to figure out the difference between foreign aid and military aid.

You have also made it clear from previous posts you want to parrot this myth that Israel sucks the US

dry of aid with no benefit to the US so your comments to me are not surprising.

Lol oh but wait you want cites. Right. Share these with Bud. Lol like you would read them

http://israel21c.org/blog/us-reaps-mutual-benefit-of-aid-to-israel/

http://backspin.typepad.com/backspin/2010/04/5-reasons-why-aid-to-israel-benefits-us-taxpayers.html

http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Op-Ed-Contributors/Benefits-of-US-aid-to-Israel-exceed-cost

Israel in fact ceased receiving non military economic aid from the US in 2008.

A 2007 report by economists at the University of Massachusetts equated 8,555 jobs for each $1 billion invested in the military – with average wages and benefits of nearly $66,000.

By this formula, U.S. military aid to Israel supports roughly 20,000 jobs directly (in line with an estimate by the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, the leading pro-Israel lobby) and untold thousands more at suppliers and businesses in related fields.

(source for above:http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2009/01/31/aid-to-israel-and-the-bang-for-those-bucks/)

Oh but wait you will of course on cue dismiss all the above as Zionist propaganda so here, read it from a Professor who is openly bias against the state of Israel how US military aid to Israel benefits the US:

http://www.eroj.org/Palestina/zunes.htm

While you are at it since you are an expert on US aid to Israel, do tell us how much interest Israel paid on its loans from the US and how it paid back its loans.

Of course you won't. In your world you deny Israel pays back its loans to the US with interest.

Your idea of debating is to throw out a myth and call names when someone does not agree with that myth.

[Rue]

At first you say America does get a return on its military investment in Israel then you say that Israel takes it as a 'handout'. Which is it again?

Might want to read what he said again, slowly.

[bud]

Khomeini has never supported the religious views of the Alawites. How about you actually go and read what he said.

Al Sadr has never been a mainstream Shiite.

You would know both Bud and nit make such statements if you made an effort to research the subject before you bluff your way through it Bud.

Your own sources or the ones I provided prove you dead wrong.

What planet am I on?

Lol the one Bud you hide from because it does not reflect your image.

let's try this again: both khomeini and al sadr accepted the alawites as shiites. the alawites consider themselves shiites. this makes the alawites, shiites.

not sure why you have such a hard time with facts.

Edited October 4, 2013 by bud