Gay to Straight Program in Arizona Public Schools

[Mighty AC]

If Democrats were issuing anti-gay statements in an attempt to kiss the buts of Muslim leaders from Northern states with an Islamic majority I'd be making the exact same posts. However, I suspect Shady would no longer object.

[Shady]

Would you?

Exactly. It's his ilk that constantly tell us that you can't judge an entire group by a smaller group of individuals. Unless of course it's Christians. That's the point. Their standard flips on it's head when it comes to other groups. Here we have a poster in question, that has multiple threads going, all bashing Christians and Christianity, when you have other religions, that will remain nameless, that he posts nothing about, ever. But are far worse when it comes to this particular topic, homosexuality. People of his ilk have absolutely no credibility.

[Shady]

It's not always easy to tell truth from satire when we're talking about the southern states.

I don't know about "proof", but I can give you an example. Without consulting Google, see if you can tell which of the following items are truth and which are satire:

-Virginia candidate for governor proposes law to outlaw oral sex

-North Carolina legislators propose establishment of a state religion

-Rick Perry still mad that sodomy law was struck down

-Arizona sheriff requires deputies to carry AR-15s at all times, even while off duty

-Kentucky law says that only God can maintain the safety and security of the state.

-28% of Louisiana residents blame G.W.Bush for sloppy response to Hurricane Katrina; 29% blame Obama

-North Carolina law forbids the use of sea level data more recent than 1900 in formulating public policy.

-Virginia candidate for lieutenant governor claims sin causes birth defects and says that God will redistribute wealth.

-illegal for teachers in Tennessee to acknowledge the existence of gay people to students lower than 9th grade

-Arizona sheriff mounts expedition to Hawaii to investigate Obama birth certificate fraud

-Georgia lawmaker argues that women should be required to bring futile pregnancies to term because the animals in his barnyard have to.

-Louisiana law requires that creationism be given "balanced treatment" in public school science classes.

-Kentucky to subsidize building of Noah's Ark museum.

Is it really so easy to tell which are satire?

-k

It isn't so easy to tell when somebody is a disingenious as yourself. Do you even bother to look into anything you mentioned? Or is this just another example of a headline fulfilling a prejudice?

I don't have time to go into each one, but anyone with even a bit of curiosity would have found out that the so-called ban on oral sex isn't that at all. It was a measure aimed at minors, non-consenting adults, and in public. The Ark isn't at all being subsized by the state. It's a private project, raising private money, taking advantage of some the more recent movies that have featured the story, like Steve Carell's Evan Almighty. All of your so-called examples come with caveats which you either didn't want to disclose, or didn't care. Either way, it's shoddy and dishonest. All in an effort to re-inforce more prejudices. Pathetic.

And omg, a sherrif likes to carry two guns with him at all times! Somebody get kimmy a glass of water, she's got a serious case of the vapors!

[GostHacked]

I am wondering now if this whole thread is satire.

[The_Squid]

I am wondering now if this whole thread is satire.

I think (hope) that some of the people on this site are caricatures that are simply arguing for the sake of arguing on the interwebs. They can't actually believe some of the bizarre, inconsistent things that they are writing, can they???

[GostHacked]

I think (hope) that some of the people on this site are caricatures that are simply arguing for the sake of arguing on the interwebs. They can't actually believe some of the bizarre, inconsistent things that they are writing, can they???

Why would people post as caricatures? We do have some 'devil's advocates' here. I don't get it.

[cybercoma]

I don't have time to go into each one

I'm sure time is the problem.

[The_Squid]

The Ark isn't at all being subsized by the state. It's a private project, raising private money, taking advantage of some the more recent movies that have featured the story, like Steve Carell's Evan Almighty.

As usual, your research is rather.... incomplete.... maybe even faulty!

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/12/02/gov-beshear-creation-ark-theme-park/

Kentucky Governor Steve Beshear announced Wednesday that Ark Encounter LLC and Answers in Genesis (AiG), which is widely known for its Creation Museum, will begin construction of a Noah’s Ark tourist attraction in his state.

And according to reports coming out of the state, Kentucky taxpayers may end up subsidizing the park.

---------------------------------------

Under the Kentucky Tourism Development Act, the state could subsidize up to 25 percent of the park, the Courier-Journal says.

[Black Dog]

Exactly. It's his ilk that constantly tell us that you can't judge an entire group by a smaller group of individuals. Unless of course it's Christians. That's the point. Their standard flips on it's head when it comes to other groups. Here we have a poster in question, that has multiple threads going, all bashing Christians and Christianity, when you have other religions, that will remain nameless, that he posts nothing about, ever. But are far worse when it comes to this particular topic, homosexuality. People of his ilk have absolutely no credibility.

I don't understand this. There's no obligation here to give equal time. You'd maybe have a point if there were people "bashing" Christians for some things and outright defending Islam on the same counts. But no one does that. Silence does not equal endorsement, SHady. Oh so this one guy doesn't post about Islam enough to your liking? Start your own threads (if the subject hasn't been covered by jbg, DoP or any number of the other posters for whom Islam is of, uh, special interest.) I repeat: no one is under any obligation to give equal time to different subjects. And maybe stop being such a goddamn crybaby while you're at it.

[Mighty AC]

Here we have a poster in question, that has multiple threads going, all bashing Christians and Christianity, when you have other religions, that will remain nameless, that he posts nothing about, ever.

I'm sure we could all agree that Jean-Claude Van Damme is a horrible actor. There is little debate and even less reason to discuss it. However, when members of the Stephen Seagal fan club start throwing stones, the hypocrisy is worth talking about.

[GostHacked]

Jean Claude can still do the moves. Horrible speaking actor, but a pretty good action actor.

[Mighty AC]

There you go again, defending Van Damme with never a kind word for Seagal's acting chops. People of your ilk have absolutely no credibility.

[Guest American Woman]

As usual, your research is rather.... incomplete.... maybe even faulty!

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/12/02/gov-beshear-creation-ark-theme-park/

That link is from 2010, and it says the state "may" subsidize the park. There is quite a difference between "may" and "is." As I've already pointed out. I can find no information more recent than that article saying that the state is subsidizing it. Everything I've read says otherwise. So do you have anything that confirms the claim that was made - that the state IS subsidizing the Ark museum?

I've also pointed out that "Arizona sheriff requires deputies to carry AR-15s at all times, even while off duty" is not true and that I can't find anything to back up the claim that "Arizona sheriff mounts expedition to Hawaii to investigate Obama birth certificate fraud." Perhaps you can provide the proof?

Edited August 29, 2013 by American Woman

[The_Squid]

That link is from 2010, and it says the state "may" subsidize the park. There is quite a difference between "may" and "is." As I've already pointed out. I can find no information more recent than that article saying that the state is subsidizing it. Everything I've read says otherwise. So do you have anything that confirms the claim that was made - that the state IS subsidizing the Ark museum?

Here is your 'is'... you need to get some better fact finding skills... Yes, it will receive tax subsidies if they can start building it. Yes, the taxpayers would be helping to fund creationist, for-profit nonsense!

Like Noah before the Flood, the builders are in a bit of a time crunch, since Kentucky tourism tax incentives for the project are set to expire in May 2014.

The longer it takes to start building the $150 million park, originally planned to open in spring 2014, the less the project stands to gain from the rebates, which allow it to receive up to 25 percent of project costs over 10 years from sales taxes generated by the business.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/31/noahs-ark-theme-park_n_3367579.html

If you couldn't find a link to this, then I don't really trust that you can do much to find links to verify the others as well.... you don't seem to be able to come up with information on what is happening if it doesn't fit your peculiar ideology, it seems.

Edited August 29, 2013 by The_Squid

[Mighty AC]

That link is from 2010, and it says the state "may" subsidize the park. There is quite a difference between "may" and "is." As I've already pointed out. I can find no information more recent than that article saying that the state is subsidizing it. Everything I've read says otherwise. So do you have anything that confirms the claim that was made - that the state IS subsidizing the Ark museum?

The point of Kimmy's list is that in the current political environment of (primarily) red states, it is hard to tell which of the outlandish sounding headlines are true and which are fiction. The straws you're grasping at by arguing that Kentucky "may" fund an ark museum prove that point.

Just change the sate in these statements and see how different they sound.

"Kentucky taxpayers to fund Noah's Ark Museum!" - "California taxpayers to fund Noah's Ark Museum!"

"Texas public schools required to teach creationism in science class!" - "Massachusetts public schools required to teach creationism in science class!"

The reaction from those statements instantly goes from "it figures" to "WTF!!"

[Guest American Woman]

The point of Kimmy's list is that in the current political environment of (primarily) red states, it is hard to tell which of the outlandish sounding headlines are true and which are fiction. The straws you're grasping at by arguing that Kentucky "may" fund an ark museum prove that point.

Since when is pointing out facts "grasping?" Clearly I'm not the one doing the grasping here. As I've pointed out, most of her list is either a single politician "wanting" something or not liking something. I believe she mentioned half a dozen or so. Out of a country of 312 million. That's hardly any evidence at all of "the current political state," including "red states." And again, at least one of them is outright not true, the museum isn't a proven fact by any means, but appears to be not true, and there's nothing out there to confirm the sheriff's posse heading to Hawaii.

Just change the sate in these statements and see how different they sound.

"Kentucky taxpayers to fund Noah's Ark Museum!" - "California taxpayers to fund Noah's Ark Museum!"

It sounds about the same to me in both instances - something I want to confirm, which I did try to do when I read kimmy's list. Again, it doesn't appear as if the state is the musecum.

"Texas public schools required to teach creationism in science class!" - "Massachusetts public schools required to teach creationism in science class!"

Again, in both instances, I would look for confirmation, especially if it were from a news source I wasn't familiar with, which had to have been the case when you started this thread. .

The reaction from those statements instantly goes from "it figures" to "WTF!!"

No. Not "the reaction;" your reaction.

Edited August 29, 2013 by American Woman

[guyser]

and there's nothing out there to confirm the sheriff's posse heading to Hawaii.

Joe Arpaio, sheriff of Maricopa County and living embodiment of everything vile and rotten in contemporary American society, has been hard at work investigating whether the president of the United States is an American citizen, which the president is, case closed. Or rather, case closed for people who don’t make a living stoking racist paranoia. For Arpaio, the more evidence we have that Barack Obama’s biography is precisely what he’s always said it is, the stronger the likelihood that this conspiracy goes all the way to the top. So now he’s got his agents traipsing around Hawaii, trying to stir up trouble.

http://www.salon.com/2012/05/22/arpaio_goons_sent_to_hawaii_for_important_birther_investigation/

[GostHacked]

There you go again, defending Van Damme with never a kind word for Seagal's acting chops. People of your ilk have absolutely no credibility.

Well, I was never a big fan of Segal, but he does has some moves. Action hero actors are rarely good/great actors otherwise.

[Guest American Woman]

Joe Arpaio, sheriff of Maricopa County and living embodiment of everything vile and rotten in contemporary American society, has been hard at work investigating whether the president of the United States is an American citizen, which the president is, case closed. Or rather, case closed for people who don’t make a living stoking racist paranoia. For Arpaio, the more evidence we have that Barack Obama’s biography is precisely what he’s always said it is, the stronger the likelihood that this conspiracy goes all the way to the top. So now he’s got his agents traipsing around Hawaii, trying to stir up trouble.

http://www.salon.com/2012/05/22/arpaio_goons_sent_to_hawaii_for_important_birther_investigation/

Thank you. I couldn't find any information about a trip to Hawaii, just that he had a "posse" investigating the legitimacy of Obama's birth certificate, and that it wasn't on the public dime. At any rate, one goofy sheriff is hardly comparable to an entire state/state law, much less the "political environment."

That still leaves at least two of the claims incorrect - unless you've also managed to find proof that the state is subsidizing the Ark museum.

Edited August 29, 2013 by American Woman

[guyser]

, just that he had a "posse" investigating the legitimacy of Obama's birth certificate, and that it wasn't on the public dime.

The Arizona Republic notes that in addition to having a taxpayer-funded deputy now assisting the supposedly donor-funded “cold-case posse” (which has spent $40,000 investigating Obama’s birth certificate thus far), the citizens of Arizona foot the bill for airfare and lodging for the crack investigators. (Arpaio’s response to questioning: “”It’s one deputy, so what? We have security issues, too, that I can’t go into.”)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That still leaves at least two of the claims incorrect - unless you've also managed to find proof that the state is subsidizing the Ark museum.

According to an editorial published yesterday in The New York Times, the Kentucky Tourism Development Finance Authority recently allocated more than $40 million in tax incentives for a planned expansion to the controversial Creation Museum: The Ark Encounter, a theme park designed to demonstrate the literal truth of the biblical story of Noah’s ark by featuring a full-size replica of the ark including live animals, was conceived by the same conservative Christian ministry that built the Creation Museum. Even Kentucky’s Democratic governor supports state funding for the project, arguing that it will bring 900 jobs to the area. Of course, as the editorial points out, “public money is not supposed to pay to advance religion.”

[Mighty AC]

At any rate, one goofy sheriff is hardly comparable to an entire state/state law, much less the "political environment."

Yeah...only small fries and political nobodies are contributing to the ridiculousness.

- “I'm not ashamed to admit that I’m a Christian, but you don’t need to be in the pew in the country every Sunday to know that there’s something wrong with this country when gays can openly serve in the military but our kids can;t openly celebrate Christmas or pray in school.” ~ Texas Governor Rick Perry

- “If the Supreme Court says that you have the right to consensual sex within your home, then you have the right to bigamy, you have the right to polygamy, you have the right to incest, you have the right to adultery. You have the right to anything. Does that undermine the fabric of our society? I would argue yes, it does. ” ~ Rick Santorum

[The_Squid]

That still leaves at least two of the claims incorrect - unless you've also managed to find proof that the state is subsidizing the Ark museum.

See post # 89

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums/topic/22975-gay-to-straight-program-in-arizona-public-schools/?p=917345

[Guest American Woman]

Tax incentives are not a "subsidy."

Definition of SUBSIDY

: a grant or gift of money: as

a : a sum of money formerly granted by the British Parliament to the crown and raised by special taxation

b : money granted by one state to another

c : a grant by a government to a private person or company to assist an enterprise deemed advantageous to the public

While I disagree with tax incentives for for-profit religious based projects too, as I pointed out previously, Catholic schools are subsidized by the government in Canada - so what makes this so far-fetched, "can you believe this is true?"

[The_Squid]

Tax incentives are not a "subsidy."

Definition of SUBSIDY

: a grant or gift of money: as

a : a sum of money formerly granted by the British Parliament to the crown and raised by special taxation

b : money granted by one state to another

c : a grant by a government to a private person or company to assist an enterprise deemed advantageous to the public

While I disagree with tax incentives for for-profit religious based projects too, as I pointed out previously, Catholic schools are subsidized by the government in Canada - so what makes this so far-fetched, "can you believe this is true?"

Your definition is incomplete. Directed tax concessions are certainly a subsidy. They didn't give some x dollars, but x dollars have dissapeared from the budget just the same because they don't have to pay their taxes. It's a nice attempt to hide a subsidy with semantics.

http://www.iisd.org/gsi/subsidy-types

Your silly bleating about catholic schools in Canada is a red herring. Why don't you make a topic about it to discuss? I certainly wouldn't bring up Kentucky gov't subsidies in that topic, as it would be foolish and off-topic.

Edited August 29, 2013 by The_Squid

[sharkman]

Would Shady have an issue if this topic were critical of Democrats, Scientologists or Muslims? Hmmm....

Oh, is that all this is? A thread that is critical of southern Republicans? And that in a nutshell tells me all I need to know about you.

You start a thread presenting a fictional smear as fact, without having the integrity to do the most basic fact checking, because in your head you automatically believe it to be true. There's no red flag raised for you in that this whole story would be illegal, no, it's in the south so your ugly bigoted views kick in and therefore it must be fact.

Then later on in the thread when I post a disgusting link where a religious nut talks about the benefits of stoning gays to death, it doesn't draw a response of revulsion from you because it's not a christian nut. You are the same kind of person that you hate in the southern US, there's no difference.

Edited August 29, 2013 by sharkman