Gay to Straight Program in Arizona Public Schools

[bleeding heart]

Yeah, those poor little political elites, to a person supported by multi-millionaires, who want Creationist lies taught to children, and who publicly denounce gay people...they are such victims of unreasoning bigotry!

[carepov]

I fail to understand how what this preacher said would be somehow worse if he was a politician.

It is worse because:

-the preacher is a representative of his small niche community while a politician is a representative of a the electorate

-the preacher has only the ability to influence members of his community but the politican has the power to advocate for laws that are binding on the entire constituency

[cybercoma]

Wow, there is far more activity in this thread than I expected. Thanks to Bleeding Heart for defending my apology.

While reading about American Woman's faith that the level of religious and Republican nut jobbery required for the fake story in the OP to be true is simply unthinkable, I started to compile a list of true events that prove otherwise. However, as it turns out Kimmy already put together a more impressive one.

In short, the 'People Can Change' conversion therapy program is real, there are states still deciding if creationism should be taught in science class and governors, congressmen and senators fire off anti-gay statements daily. Plus top Republicans line up to win the approval of wingnut Christian leaders like Bryan Fischer of the American Family Association. Based on that reality the satirical story is sadly plausible.

- Alabama GOP Candidate Wants His Opponents To Promise They're Anti-Gay, Religious Enough

- “I'm not ashamed to admit that I’m a Christian, but you don’t need to be in the pew in the country every Sunday to know that there’s something wrong with this country when gays can openly serve in the military but our kids can;t openly celebrate Christmas or pray in school.” ~ Texas Governor Rick Perry

- “If the Supreme Court says that you have the right to consensual sex within your home, then you have the right to bigamy, you have the right to polygamy, you have the right to incest, you have the right to adultery. You have the right to anything. Does that undermine the fabric of our society? I would argue yes, it does. ” ~ Rick Santorum

- “If you’re involved in the gay and lesbian lifestyle, it’s bondage. It is personal bondage, personal despair and personal enslavement.” ~ Michele Bachmann

- Ohio Creationism Proposal Still Up For Consideration In Springboro Schools

- People Can Change Conversion Therapy

- Fischer: "It Is Altogether Right To Discriminate Against Homosexual Behavior"

The most important point here is that these are not fringe wingnuts on the sidelines. This is the party leadership. These are the people vying to be president some day.

Edited August 28, 2013 by cybercoma

[cybercoma]

Yeah, those poor little political elites, to a person supported by multi-millionaires, who want Creationist lies taught to children, and who publicly denounce gay people...they are such victims of unreasoning bigotry!

Game. Set. Match.

[Shady]

Yeah, those poor little political elites, to a person supported by multi-millionaires, who want Creationist lies taught to children, and who publicly denounce gay people...they are such victims of unreasoning bigotry!

More vile prejudice. You continue to make my point. Ok, now do Muslims!

[GostHacked]

Sometimes there is a lot of ugly truths in satire.

[Guest American Woman]

It's not always easy to tell truth from satire when we're talking about the southern states.

I don't know about "proof", but I can give you an example. Without consulting Google, see if you can tell which of the following items are truth and which are satire:

-Virginia candidate for governor proposes law to outlaw oral sex

-North Carolina legislators propose establishment of a state religion

-Rick Perry still mad that sodomy law was struck down

-Arizona sheriff requires deputies to carry AR-15s at all times, even while off duty

-Kentucky law says that only God can maintain the safety and security of the state.

-28% of Louisiana residents blame G.W.Bush for sloppy response to Hurricane Katrina; 29% blame Obama

-North Carolina law forbids the use of sea level data more recent than 1900 in formulating public policy.

-Virginia candidate for lieutenant governor claims sin causes birth defects and says that God will redistribute wealth.

-illegal for teachers in Tennessee to acknowledge the existence of gay people to students lower than 9th grade

-Arizona sheriff mounts expedition to Hawaii to investigate Obama birth certificate fraud

-Georgia lawmaker argues that women should be required to bring futile pregnancies to term because the animals in his barnyard have to.

-Louisiana law requires that creationism be given "balanced treatment" in public school science classes.

-Kentucky to subsidize building of Noah's Ark museum.

Is it really so easy to tell which are satire?

First of all, a good part of your list is simply a matter of a lone politician wanting something. That, in a country of 312 million people, isn't exactly mind boggling. Secondly, since Canada can't even have a Catholic head of state because of the role religion plays, I hardly think that one state's legislators simply proposing a "state religion" should be difficult for you to distinguish from "satire." As for what Rick Perry thinks - who care? What does that have to do with the issue at hand? As for this claim: "Arizona sheriff requires deputies to carry AR-15s at all times, even while off duty," it's not true. Took me two seconds to find that out. As for the claim that "Arizona sheriff mounts expedition to Hawaii to investigate Obama birth certificate fraud," I can't find anything to confirm that. Regarding "Kentucky to subsidize building of Noah's Ark museum," all I can find is an reference from 2010 that Kentucky MAY subsidize it. But since Catholic schools are subsidized by the government in Canada, that hardly seems 'off the wall,' right?

At any rate, Sharkman is right when he says that there are stupid politicians and stupid laws in Canada, too, so if AC wants to have a "yes it's not true, but...." moment, perhaps it should be because there are stupid laws and stupid people everywhere, not singling out the "Southern states" - especially since Arizona isn't even a southern state.

Edited August 28, 2013 by American Woman

[bleeding heart]

More vile prejudice.

Since you haven't demonstrated my "vile prejudice" in the first instance, insisting that I have added to it doesn't carry much information.

You continue to make my point. Ok, now do Muslims!

Just yesterday I called Islam "the most regressive and oppressive of a bad lot"....if that helps you. If for some unstated reason that makes you happy.

Though I don't know why I need to qualify every remark on Western retrogrades with a wagging finger at Muslims.

Just as you aren't much interested in criticizing our homegrown North American mouth-breathers...now are you?

You're the second poster in this thread to insist upon separate standards: a low one for yourself, a higher one for others. What gives?

[bleeding heart]

At any rate, Sharkman is right when he says that there are stupid politicians and stupid laws in Canada, too,

Where did you get that? I only read his mentioning of murderers, racist individuals and teenaged suicide.

[Shady]

Since you haven't demonstrated my "vile prejudice" in the first instance, insisting that I have added to it doesn't carry much information.Just yesterday I called Islam "the most regressive and oppressive of a bad lot"....if that helps you. If for some unstated reason that makes you happy.Though I don't know why I need to qualify every remark on Western retrogrades with a wagging finger at Muslims.Just as you aren't much interested in criticizing our homegrown North American mouth-breathers...now are you?You're the second poster in this thread to insist upon separate standards: a low one for yourself, a higher one for others. What gives?

I don't mind if you having sweeping generalizations and prejudices towards a certain group of people, but you really need to be consistent in your outrage. Your so-called criticism of Islam is always in conjunction with your hatred of Christians. While your criticism of Christians is always deprecate from anything else. It's obvious bigotry, and it's pretty ugly. You deem an entire area of a country to be a certain way without any regard. It would be like referring to the Middle East as a bunch of terrorists. But you would never do that. You would be one of those people insisting we point out that it's only a small minority. Or it would be like me referring the gay pride parade as the AIDS pride parade, because a much higher percentage of gays have HIV than the straight population. But that would never be tolerated. Neither would tying NAMBLA to the overall gay community. It's just more of the same from you people and its getting to be pretty disgusting,

[Guest American Woman]

American Woman, on 28 Aug 2013 - 1:33 PM, said:

At any rate, Sharkman is right when he says that there are stupid politicians and stupid laws in Canada, too,

Where did you get that?

Ummmmm... From this.

One could cherry pick headlines in the previous year from any part of Canada and come up with the same type of strange sounding list. ....Pointing fingers when one's own country can have much the same kind of nonsense is kind of pointless.

[Black Dog]

This thread is a great reminder that the only acceptable group that one can apply prejudice towards continues to be Southerners, particularly white Christian Southerners.

The bias is actually towards stupid white Christian Southerners. A subgroup of a subgroup.

It's obvious bigotry, and it's pretty ugly. You deem an entire area of a country to be a certain way without any regard.

It's more of a, shall we say, trend analysis.

It would be like referring to the Middle East as a bunch of terrorists. But you would never do that. You would be one of those people insisting we point out that it's only a small minority. Or it would be like me referring the gay pride parade as the AIDS pride parade, because a much higher percentage of gays have HIV than the straight population. But that would never be tolerated. Neither would tying NAMBLA to the overall gay community. It's just more of the same from you people and its getting to be pretty disgusting,

The irony of using these examples to defend the same group who would ACTUALLY BELIEVE THOSE THINGS is glorious.

[bleeding heart]

I don't mind if you having sweeping generalizations and prejudices towards a certain group of people, but you really need to be consistent in your outrage. Your so-called criticism of Islam is always in conjunction with your hatred of Christians.

First of all, my "so-called criticism of Islam" is on record, and it's not "so-called"; it's unambiguous.

Second, I hold no hatred of Christians...like my beloved parents, for example. Fortunately, my parents are not reactionary fundamentalists--the one and only type of Christianity with which I have any issue. As do many Christians, not so incidentally.

It's obvious bigotry, and it's pretty ugly. You deem an entire area of a country to be a certain way without any regard.

Not sure where you get that, as my criticism was solely of political elites who are also Bible-maddened, superstitious, anti-gay bigots.

It would be like referring to the Middle East as a bunch of terrorists. But you would never do that.

Of course I wouldn't. Neither would you. Because we both know that it's flatly untrue.

You would be one of those people insisting we point out that it's only a small minority.

Yes...I would be one of those people who make the sane observation which you yourself know is correct. So you are one of "those people" too.

[bleeding heart]

Ummmmm... From this.

Right...not the slightest breath about "stupid politicians and stupid laws"...but instead, when he made the "comparison," he made it about serial killers, racists spitting out of vehicles, and bullying-inspired teen suicide.

I'm not quite sure why, but there it is.

Mind you, I'm not for a second suggesting that we don't have stupid politicians. It's a given.

But you're putting words into other posters' mouths.

[bleeding heart]

The irony of using these examples to defend the same group who would ACTUALLY BELIEVE THOSE THINGS is glorious.

Well said, and too true.

[Guest American Woman]

Right...not the slightest breath about "stupid politicians and stupid laws"...but instead, when he made the "comparison," he made it about serial killers, racists spitting out of vehicles, and bullying-inspired teen suicide.

I'm not quite sure why, but there it is.

Mind you, I'm not for a second suggesting that we don't have stupid politicians. It's a given.

But you're putting words into other posters' mouths.

Really? Is that what I'm doing? Because to me it seemed quite clear that he was saying what I took it as. Perhaps we can let him speak for himself and tell me that I'm wrong, rather than you speaking for him, eh?

[bleeding heart]

Really? Is that what I'm doing? Because to me it seemed quite clear that he was saying what I took it as. Perhaps we can let him speak for himself and tell me that I'm wrong, rather than you speaking for him, eh?

Please...you're the one speaking for him; I am informing you of exactly what he wrote.

Now, I can't help it if what he writes is not what he means. If he meant to talk about laws and politicians...why then did he only speak of lawbreakers (murderers, in fact)....and suicidal teens?

And how did you get "stupid politicians and laws" from a serial killer, honour-killers, spitting racist co-workers, and teenaged suicide?

[Shady]

The bias is actually towards stupid white Christian Southerners. A subgroup of a subgroup.

It's more of a, shall we say, trend analysis.

The irony of using these examples to defend the same group who would ACTUALLY BELIEVE THOSE THINGS is glorious.

The fact that you think "they'd" actually believe those things is just more prejudice. You people prove my point with each passing post. Glorious.

[Shady]

:)Well said, and too true.

Yep, too true to a bigot.

[bleeding heart]

Yep, too true to a bigot.

So now you're outright calling me a bigot?

Jeez, thanks a lot.

[Shady]

So now you're outright calling me a bigot?Jeez, thanks a lot.

I'm not calling anyone a bigot. But anybody that subscribes to that view pretty much is wouldn't you say? I mean, you can't get much more prejudicial than that.

[bleeding heart]

I'm not calling anyone a bigot. But anybody that subscribes to that view pretty much is wouldn't you say? I mean, you can't get much more prejudicial than that.

Who are the victims of said "bigotry" again? I think we need to clarify. Is it Bachman, Perry, and other powerful people?

[Black Dog]

The fact that you think "they'd" actually believe those things is just more prejudice. You people prove my point with each passing post. Glorious.

See here's the thing Shady. Not all Mulsims are terrorists, but a significant number of terrorists have been Muslim. Agree?

By the same token, not all southern Evangelical Christian Fundamentalists believe stupid shit (aside from the IMO foundational stupidity that is their faith), but a significant number or believers of stupid shit in the U.S.A. are southern Evangelical Christian Fundamentalists. For example, 57 per cent of all Americans believe in evolution compared to 32 per cent of white evangelicals.

Also, I'm not sure why you can't understand why people might take more of an issue with people making judgements on groups based on immutable characteristics like race, ethnicity or sexual orientation versus personal beliefs.

Edited August 28, 2013 by Black Dog

[Mighty AC]

Would Shady have an issue if this topic were critical of Democrats, Scientologists or Muslims? Hmmm....

[Guest American Woman]

Would Shady have an issue if this topic were critical of Democrats, Scientologists or Muslims? Hmmm....

Would you?