Trayvon Martin - The other side of Hypocricy

[Bonam]

What about the damage Obama is causing?

What about it? Dunno, maybe Zimmerman should get a federal payout too. The role of politicians is pretty much to cause as much damage as they can and impede society as much as possible so I'm not particularly surprised.

[Guest American Woman]

What about it? Dunno, maybe Zimmerman should get a federal payout too. The role of politicians is pretty much to cause as much damage as they can and impede society as much as possible so I'm not particularly surprised.

I'm thinking 'personal responsibility,' not federal payout. What Obama is doing, insinuating that Zimmerman's actions were due to racism on his part, amounts to defamation of character.

[The_Squid]

I'm thinking 'personal responsibility,' not federal payout. What Obama is doing, insinuating that Zimmerman's actions were due to racism on his part, amounts to defamation of character.

He shot a kid for no reason... I think Zimmerman brought this sort of scrutiny upon himself.

[-TSS-]

Idiocy rears its ugly head:

http://patdollard.com/2013/07/race-war-blacks-beat-hispanic-man-in-baltimore-yelling-this-is-for-trayvon/

[Guest American Woman]

He shot a kid for no reason... I think Zimmerman brought this sort of scrutiny upon himself.

It wasn't "for no reason," as in he saw a Black kid walking down the street and decided to kill him because he's Black. His reason may not be justified, but that's different from "no reason." There's absolutely nothing to indicate that Zimmerman shot Martin because he was Black. No evidence at all. Everyone who kills someone of a different race isn't prejudiced or a racist. It would be pretty odd if Hispanics only killed Hispanics, Whites only killed Whites, Blacks only killed Blacks. So why, when someone other than a Black kills a Black, is the person who killed them automatically made out to be a racist? Why is the crime made out to be about race? It's ridiculous.

As for the "scrutiny," Zimmerman had it from the FBI; there was no evidence of racism found.

Edited July 22, 2013 by American Woman

[Bonam]

So why, when someone other than a Black kills a Black, is the person who killed them automatically made out to be a racist? Why is the crime made out to be about race? It's ridiculous.

Indeed, totally ridiculous. As to why... as discussed earlier, it's because America is "hung up on Race".

[Guest American Woman]

Indeed, totally ridiculous. As to why... as discussed earlier, it's because America is "hung up on Race".

No, "America" is not hung up on race. There are plenty of Canadians here saying it's about race. I, an American, am not. As I said, the media and "America" are not the same thing. Plenty of Americans are fed up with this being made about race. Most Americans go through their daily lives without giving race a thought. Edited July 22, 2013 by American Woman

[GostHacked]

No, "America" is not hung up on race. There are plenty of Canadians here saying it's about race.

In this case we see certain Americans like Sharpton, Jackson playing the race card to it's full potential. The case may not be about racism, but there are key public figures sure as hell making it a race issue.

This thread may not exist if there was no racism component perpetrated by the likes of Sharpton and Jackson, even Obama.

I, an American, am not. As I said, the media and "America" are not the same thing. Plenty of Americans are fed up with this being made about race. Most Americans go through their daily lives without giving race a thought.

I know you speak for yourself as an American, but do you speak for all Americans?

[-TSS-]

I must say that I find it a bit funny or confusing as the Americans are so fond of keeping very accurate statistics about people's race whether they are white, black or hispanic. Despite all that very cdommendable accuracy all of a sudden in this particular case Mr. Z's race has become very unrecognizable.

The media would just love him to be categorized as "white" or "Caucasian" as you prefer that insanely stupid tag but he is not white or caucasian. Yet the media can't portray him as hispanic either because that would trigger further unrest.

[Guest American Woman]

In this case we see certain Americans like Sharpton, Jackson playing the race card to it's full potential. The case may not be about racism, but there are key public figures sure as hell making it a race issue.

The "key public figures" you mentioned, who ironically all happen to be Black, do not = America/Americans in general. I think that's the problem a lot of people have - an inability to distinguish between what some people do and Americans in general. It's weird, because they seem able to separate some from the whole in other areas.

But the idea that non-Americans who grew up on American media know how Americans in general think and feel, and know what it's like to grow up in America as a result, is a false notion. The Media does not equal the U.S./Americans.

This thread may not exist if there was no racism component perpetrated by the likes of Sharpton and Jackson, even Obama.

Yet there are many Canadians here perpetuating the idea that it's about race.

I know you speak for yourself as an American, but do you speak for all Americans?

That's a strange question. I've never claimed to speak for "all Americans." For one thing, I'm not ignorant enough to think that all Americans think the same way I do. However, as Bonam speaks for "Americans," you don't question that. Strange, as I said. I certainly think that I, having grown up in the U.S., am in a better position to speak of what goes on in the U.S. and what Americans feel than someone growing up on American media. My everyday life, my growing up, my extensive travels within my country, my daily conversations, all involve being around Americans. As I said, Americans aren't, in general, consumed by race. A lot of it, I think, is others claiming we are. Just as we have people claiming Zimmerman is a racist. Edited July 22, 2013 by American Woman

[Black Dog]

No, "America" is not hung up on race. There are plenty of Canadians here saying it's about race. I, an American, am not. As I said, the media and "America" are not the same thing. Plenty of Americans are fed up with this being made about race. Most Americans go through their daily lives without giving race a thought.

So they probably don't think about the myriad subtle ways racism manifests itself in society. For example, when one sees a black kid in a hoodie and assumes they are up to no good.

[Guest American Woman]

So they probably don't think about the myriad subtle ways racism manifests itself in society. For example, when one sees a black kid in a hoodie and assumes they are up to no good.

Again. He wasn't even sure that Martin was black when he made his call to the police. As I've said repeatedly, it sounds as if, in light of the burglaries that had occurred, he saw a teen in a hoodie and assumed he was up to no good.

[Keepitsimple]

Again. He wasn't even sure that Martin was black when he made his call to the police. As I've said repeatedly, it sounds as if, in light of the burglaries that had occurred, he saw a teen in a hoodie and assumed he was up to no good.

Try as the prosecution did - both fairly and unfairly, they could not find one witness, or dig up anything in Zimmerman's past that could even hint at a racist attitude. Ironically, those who have turned a blind eye to the facts of the case including several posters right here - are demonstrating the racist attitude that they so vehemently accuse others of. It's called Hypocrisy.

[Guest American Woman]

Try as the prosecution did - both fairly and unfairly, they could not find one witness, or dig up anything in Zimmerman's past that could even hint at a racist attitude. Ironically, those who have turned a blind eye to the facts of the case including several posters right here - are demonstrating the racist attitude that they so vehemently accuse others of. It's called Hypocrisy.

I agree. Totally.

Edited to add: I wonder if Obama felt any guilt for additionally stirring the pot when Blacks beat up that Hispanic 'for Martin.'

Edited July 22, 2013 by American Woman

[cybercoma]

It wasn't "for no reason," as in he saw a Black kid walking down the street and decided to kill him because he's Black. His reason may not be justified, but that's different from "no reason." There's absolutely nothing to indicate that Zimmerman shot Martin because he was Black. No evidence at all. Everyone who kills someone of a different race isn't prejudiced or a racist. It would be pretty odd if Hispanics only killed Hispanics, Whites only killed Whites, Blacks only killed Blacks. So why, when someone other than a Black kills a Black, is the person who killed them automatically made out to be a racist? Why is the crime made out to be about race? It's ridiculous.

As for the "scrutiny," Zimmerman had it from the FBI; there was no evidence of racism found.

It wasn't that it was a non-black person shooting a black person. It was that Zimmerman found him suspicious, not because he was doing anything illegal, but because he was a black kid. So he decided to pursue him because "they always get away." Saying that this is being characterized as a hate crime because it was a non-black that shot a black person is oversimplifying the DoJ's position at best.

[Guest American Woman]

It wasn't that it was a non-black person shooting a black person. It was that Zimmerman found him suspicious, not because he was doing anything illegal, but because he was a black kid.

No. NOT because he was a Black kid. He never so much as hinted at that. I REPEAT. He wasn't even sure he was Black when he made his call to the police. Do you not get that??

He found him suspicious because there had been burglaries in the neighborhood and he was a young kid in a hoodie walking around the neighborhood in the rain.

AGAIN. The FBI investigation included many interviews and came up with nothing racist about Zimmerman. Do your assumptions, which border on racist at best, mean more than that fact?

So he decided to pursue him because "they always get away." Saying that this is being characterized as a hate crime because it was a non-black that shot a black person is oversimplifying the DoJ's position at best.

The "they" he spoke of wasn't a reference to Blacks, but to young teens burglarizing people's houses. Edited July 22, 2013 by American Woman

[cybercoma]

No. NOT because he was a Black kid. He never so much as hinted at that. I REPEAT. He wasn't even sure he was Black when he made his call to the police. Do you not get that??

Hey, do you think maybe you could reply like a normal person and not talk down to me every opportunity you get? The answer to your obviously rhetorical question is no. I don't get that. Since the dispatcher asked his race and he told him that Trayvon was black. You could claim that he was unsure of his race, which makes the racism even more obvious because he assumed he was black when he responded to the dispatcher's question. So where did you come up with the idea that he "never so much as hinted at that"?

[Michael Hardner]

This is an emotionally charged topic but we should perhaps cool down the conversation a bit.

[Guest American Woman]

Hey, do you think maybe you could reply like a normal person and not talk down to me every opportunity you get? The answer to your obviously rhetorical question is no. I don't get that. Since the dispatcher asked his race and he told him that Trayvon was black.

It wasn't a rhetorical question, and I do reply "like a normal person," thank you very much.

Zimmerman actually said "He looks Black." If he were sure, he would have said "He's Black." Also, he didn't describe Martin's race until asked. All of this has been posted countless times now.

So. This is what he did say:

Hey we've had some break-ins in my neighborhood, and there's a real suspicious guy, uh, it's Retreat View Circle, um, the best address I can give you is 111 Retreat View Circle. This guy looks like he's up to no good, or he's on drugs or something. It's raining and he's just walking around, looking about.

No mention of race until he is asked specifically about what race Martin is.

OK, and this guy is he white, black, or hispanic?

Zimmerman

He looks black.

Yet this is what you say: It was that Zimmerman found him suspicious, not because he was doing anything illegal, but because he was a black kid.

Again. No. Zimmerman found him suspicious for the reason he stated - which does not include his being Black - but because there had been break ins in the neighborhood and he was a young kid wandering around the neighborhood in the rain.

You could claim that he was unsure of his race, which makes the racism even more obvious because he assumed he was black when he responded to the dispatcher's question. So where did you come up with the idea that he "never so much as hinted at that"?

I came up with the idea because at no time did Zimmerman say he thought Martin looked suspicious because he was Black. Yet you've concluded that that's why he thought he looked suspicious.

There's nothing racist about saying "he looks Black" when asked point blank what race Martin was. He simply answered that he looks Black. He didn't assume that he was Black, but he thought he looked Black. It was dark. It was raining. It would seem that he answered as best he could.

It has been repeated ad nauseum that the FBI did a full investigation, interviewing many people, and found nothing racist in regards to Zimmerman.

Yet you keep repeating, in spite of the facts, that "Zimmerman found him suspicious because he was Black" - when there's absolutely nothing to indicate that was the case, but rather the actual evidence says otherwise.

[cybercoma]

Trayvon looked suspicious to Zimmerman, despite doing absolutely nothing suspicious. You claim Zimmerman didn't know his race, but he assumed Trayvon was black. We know this because he said, "he looks black." So we know Zimmerman found someone doing nothing unusual suspicious, then when asked his race, he made the assumption that he was black. If Martin wasn't doing anything other than walking home, what is it that made him suspicious if not his race? Does Zimmerman call the cops every time a kid walks down the street? Or was that the only phone call he made that night? It's pretty obvious that race is an issue here and there's an argument to be made that Zimmerman found Martin suspicious, chose to confront him, and as a result killed him because he was black or more specifically because Zimmerman assumed "he looks black".

Edited July 23, 2013 by cybercoma

[Guest American Woman]

You claim Zimmerman didn't know his race, but he assumed Trayvon was black. We know this because he said, "he looks black." So we know Zimmerman found someone doing nothing unusual suspicious, then when asked his race, he made the assumption that he was black. If Martin wasn't doing anything other than walking home, what is it that made him suspicious if not his race? Does Zimmerman call the cops every time a kid walks down the street?

Seems as if you think race is the only reason anyone would be suspicious of someone. Zimmerman clearly said why he was suspicious of Martin, and race wasn't one of the reasons given. Furthermore, he didn't "assume" anything about Marin's race; he said what he looked like to him, that he looked Black, but again, it was dark, it was raining, so when asked, he said he looks Black. He didn't say he was Black; by saying he looks Black rather than saying he is Black he made no assumptions at all.

Again. The FBI clearly said there was nothing racist to tie to him.

As for whether Zimmerman calls the cops every time a kid walks down the street - do you think he calls the cops every time he sees a Black kid walk down the street? You think maybe this was the first time he's ever seen a Black kid? - so that's why he called the cops? Or do you think maybe he's seen Black kids walking down the street countless times without calling the police? - indicating that there was a reason he did call the police this time?

Edited July 23, 2013 by American Woman

[cybercoma]

Sorry, but you're really stretching it here. What you're arguing doesn't even make sense. He said Martin looks black, so obviously he thought he was black. Because he said "he looks black" instead of "he is black" do you really think he had no idea what his race was? That takes some serious leaps to resolve.

[Bonam]

Sorry, but you're really stretching it here. What you're arguing doesn't even make sense. He said Martin looks black, so obviously he thought he was black. Because he said "he looks black" instead of "he is black" do you really think he had no idea what his race was? That takes some serious leaps to resolve.

The fact that he did not mention race until prompted and, when prompted, hesitated and replied "he looks black" suggests that he wasn't thinking about race and may not have even noticed it at all until asked.

Not that it even matters, since there was never enough evidence to convict him nor any reason to believe he was being racist...

Edited July 23, 2013 by Bonam

[Keepitsimple]

Sorry, but you're really stretching it here. What you're arguing doesn't even make sense. He said Martin looks black, so obviously he thought he was black. Because he said "he looks black" instead of "he is black" do you really think he had no idea what his race was? That takes some serious leaps to resolve.

Cyber - let it go....you are way off base. He didn't mention race/colour until he was asked. If he had even the slightest inclination to be racist, he would have said "There's a black kid out here.....". But he didn't. It was only after he explained the situation that he was directly asked what colour he was - to which he replied "He looked black" - not "he was black". Why is this so hard for you to absorb? These are facts - clear and concise.

[Topaz]

There's only two people who knows the real truth and one is dead and the other Zimmerman. I've caught two different Conservative talk show host talk about this with each different view in the US. One said that Martin was after Zimmerman because he was Gay, Martin had been in trouble with the law and was a trouble maker, the second host said that Zimmerman should never have gotten out of the car and when he did, knowing he had a loaded gun knew the power was in his hands. I put the blame on both, if Zimmerman had stay in the car, then he wouldn't have gotten in a fight with the Martin and Martin should have kept on walking home. Now Martin is dead, but free and Zimmerman life is a living hell, both lose.