G Huxley Posted July 9, 2013 Report Posted July 9, 2013 (edited) Unbelievable. How dare the Canadian Government threaten people who want their independence. Wilson's 14 Points and Roosevelt's Atlantic Charter both stated that people have the right to self-determination. The Canada government wants Canada in the mentality of a Middle Ages Feudal Crusader State. http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/national/Israel+urged+Canada+Palestinians+over+recognition/8636996/story.html Edited July 9, 2013 by G Huxley Quote
normanchateau Posted July 9, 2013 Report Posted July 9, 2013 Apparently Israel's actual wishes are secondary to the Conservatives' pro-Israel rhetoric. Quote
August1991 Posted July 9, 2013 Report Posted July 9, 2013 (edited) Unbelievable. How dare the Canadian Government threaten people who want their independence.Palestinians can have their "independence". But by the same logic, they must also respect the right of Israel to exist. But Huxley, there's more involved: How do Palestinians treat gays? How do they treat women? Are there gay bars in Gaza? Among Palestinians, what happens to a woman after divorce? Edited July 9, 2013 by August1991 Quote
normanchateau Posted July 9, 2013 Report Posted July 9, 2013 Palestinians can have their "independence". But by the same logic, they must also respect the right of Israel to exist. But Huxley, there's more involved: How do Palestinians treat gays? How do they treat women? Are there gay bars in Gaza? Among Palestinians, what happens to a woman after divorce? One could ask the same questions about Saudi Arabia. Has the Canadian government criticized Saudi Arabia? Quote
August1991 Posted July 9, 2013 Report Posted July 9, 2013 (edited) One could ask the same questions about Saudi Arabia. Has the Canadian government criticized Saudi Arabia?Good point. A Canadian (Conservative) federal government was once important in opposing an African government in its treatment of a majority. Maybe another Canadian (Conservative) federal government should also organize a protest to the Saudi regime's treatment of the majority in its country. Edited July 9, 2013 by August1991 Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 9, 2013 Report Posted July 9, 2013 Wilson and Roosevelt do not apply in Canada...or Israel. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Moonlight Graham Posted July 10, 2013 Report Posted July 10, 2013 But Huxley, there's more involved: How do Palestinians treat gays? How do they treat women? Are there gay bars in Gaza? Among Palestinians, what happens to a woman after divorce? None of the issues you have raised above has anything to do with the right to self-determination, nor should they prevent Palestine's right to self-determination in any way whatsoever. By that logic, based on how Canada treated gays and women in 1867, Canada was unjust in forming a federation that year. Quote "All generalizations are false, including this one." - Mark Twain Partisanship is a disease of the intellect.
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 10, 2013 Report Posted July 10, 2013 By that logic, based on how Canada treated gays and women in 1867, Canada was unjust in forming a federation that year. No need to go back that far...Canada was treating "gays and women" unjustly in 1967. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Guest Derek L Posted July 10, 2013 Report Posted July 10, 2013 Odd that nobody has mentioned what the $300 million dollars that Canada pledged was intended for…….For those not in the know, creating a Palestinian security force, at the behest of Israel, to help aide Abbas (head of the PLO) against Hamas……….And I thought Canadians didn’t want the Government dicking around in the Middle East…….oh well, carry on. Quote
G Huxley Posted July 10, 2013 Author Report Posted July 10, 2013 Canada sold much of the rights to the tar sands to a totalitarian regime in China. Canada has no upper ground. Canada is simply trying to deny people their independence. Quote
G Huxley Posted July 10, 2013 Author Report Posted July 10, 2013 (edited) Derek L The hypocrisy is that to pay off the PLO to maintain order is acceptable to the neocon government, but to actually demand independence is unacceptable to same government. Talk about neo-colonialism. Edited July 10, 2013 by G Huxley Quote
Guest Derek L Posted July 10, 2013 Report Posted July 10, 2013 Derek L The hypocrisy is that to pay off the PLO to maintain order is acceptable to the neocon government, but to actually demand independent is unacceptable to same government. Talk about neo-colonialism. But I thought we slowed the money for the PA security force? How is that paying anybody off……….And of course Israel supported the Palestinian security force, all it’s members were/are vetted by the Shin Bet……A proxy (Israeli) military aimed at ferreting out Hamas for the benefit of the PLO and Israel…….I’m glad Canada reduced the funding for the security force, well maintaining a portion towards humanitarian aide. Quote
G Huxley Posted July 10, 2013 Author Report Posted July 10, 2013 And using the money as blackmail against the PLO to stop them from pushing for independence. AKA neo-colonialism. Quote
Guest Derek L Posted July 10, 2013 Report Posted July 10, 2013 And using the money as blackmail against the PLO to stop them from pushing for independence. AKA neo-colonialism. So we should continue giving money to the Palestinian security force (Israel vetted of course) so they can continue to hunt down other Palestinians that are opposed to both the PLO and Israel…..gotcha. Quote
G Huxley Posted July 10, 2013 Author Report Posted July 10, 2013 No we should stop trying to prevent Palestinian independence. Quote
Guest Derek L Posted July 10, 2013 Report Posted July 10, 2013 No we should stop trying to prevent Palestinian independence. By continuing to give one Palestinian group a military advantage over the other? Quote
G Huxley Posted July 10, 2013 Author Report Posted July 10, 2013 By blackmailing the PLO to prevent them from seeking independence for the Palestinians. Keeping the people down. Makes you proud to be a Canadian doesn't it? Quote
Guest Derek L Posted July 10, 2013 Report Posted July 10, 2013 By blackmailing the PLO to prevent them from seeking independence for the Palestinians. Keeping the people down. Makes you proud to be a Canadian doesn't it? You're dodging the question: So we should continue giving money to the Palestinian security force (Israel vetted of course) so they can continue to hunt down other Palestinians that are opposed to both the PLO and Israel? My stance on Palestine is like that of Syria………I don’t care what they do within their own borders, I’m indifferent on giving them funding for humanitarian aide (as we are), but wholly opposed to giving one side of their internal struggle funding so they can hunt down the other side……..Why are you supportive of the Palestinian security force hunting down supporters (and members) of Hamas with Canadian help? Quote
normanchateau Posted July 10, 2013 Report Posted July 10, 2013 Palestinians can have their "independence". But by the same logic, they must also respect the right of Israel to exist. Unlike Hamas, the Palestinian Authority does respect the right of Israel to exist. Israelis have no problem distinguishing between Hamas and the Palestinian authority. It is not surprising that the government of Israel objected to Canada's hostile stance at the UN against the Palestinian Authority. Either Stephen Harper is more pro-Israel than the government of Israel or he is ignorant of the distinction between Hamas and the Palestinian Authority. If Stephen Harper has respect for the government of Israel, why did he ignore Israel's wishes on the UN vote? Quote
GostHacked Posted July 10, 2013 Report Posted July 10, 2013 If Stephen Harper has respect for the government of Israel, why did he ignore Israel's wishes on the UN vote? Might be because Israel has political clout in Canada. Quote
normanchateau Posted July 10, 2013 Report Posted July 10, 2013 Might be because Israel has political clout in Canada. If Israel has political clout in Canada, why did the Harper government vote against the wishes of Israel? Maybe the pro-Israel rhetoric of the Harper government is a sham. Quote
DogOnPorch Posted July 10, 2013 Report Posted July 10, 2013 If Israel has political clout in Canada, why did the Harper government vote against the wishes of Israel? Maybe the pro-Israel rhetoric of the Harper government is a sham. Exactly who are these 'Israeli officials' and in what 'document' in particular is Canada getting its knuckles rapped? That would be my question... Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
DogOnPorch Posted July 10, 2013 Report Posted July 10, 2013 Unlike Hamas, the Palestinian Authority does respect the right of Israel to exist. Israelis have no problem distinguishing between Hamas and the Palestinian authority. It is not surprising that the government of Israel objected to Canada's hostile stance at the UN against the Palestinian Authority. Either Stephen Harper is more pro-Israel than the government of Israel or he is ignorant of the distinction between Hamas and the Palestinian Authority. If Stephen Harper has respect for the government of Israel, why did he ignore Israel's wishes on the UN vote? What's your take on the PLO emblem? Mistake at the printers? Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
GostHacked Posted July 10, 2013 Report Posted July 10, 2013 normanchateau, on 10 Jul 2013 - 10:41 AM, said: If Israel has political clout in Canada, why did the Harper government vote against the wishes of Israel? Maybe the pro-Israel rhetoric of the Harper government is a sham. I cannot answer that. I speculate that if Harper came out against a Palestinian state, then that would have put another nail in the coffin of a possible two state solution. Quote
normanchateau Posted July 10, 2013 Report Posted July 10, 2013 What's your take on the PLO emblem? Mistake at the printers? What does this have to do with my question? This was my question: If Stephen Harper has respect for the government of Israel, why did he ignore Israel's wishes on the UN vote? Quote
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