U.S.' failure in Afghanistan

[Shady]

By international conventions it absolutely is our responsibility to help with reconstruction.

No it isn't.

[carepov]

It's not our job to reconstruct their country.

Perhaps if we leave the country alone you may have a point. But after a country has been invaded and occupied, then don't you think it is the job of the invaders and occupiers to reconstruct the country?

[Hudson Jones]

It's not our job to reconstruct their country.

It's our job only to ruin it and make it worse.

The girls now allowed to go to school are winners too.

The U.S. brought education to girls in Kabul. What will happen once the U.S. has left and the Taliban comes back to power?

Trillions wasted. Thousands killed. Billions made by the military industrial complex and the Taliban is coming back to power. So unless you're part of the military industrial complex or the Taliban, I don't know why you think the Afghanistan adventure to be a success

[Shady]

Perhaps if we leave the country alone you may have a point. But after a country has been invaded and occupied, then don't you think it is the job of the invaders and occupiers to reconstruct the country?

Nope. The Taliban was routed because they harboured al Qaeda terrorists. The invasion was a small scale operation that had nothing to do with the state of their country. So like I said, it's not our job to reconstruct something that never was constructed in the first place.

[Shady]

It's our job only to ruin it and make it worse.

The U.S. brought education to girls in Kabul. What will happen once the U.S. has left and the Taliban comes back to power?

Trillions wasted. Thousands killed. Billions made by the military industrial complex and the Taliban is coming back to power. So unless you're part of the military industrial complex or the Taliban, I don't know why you think the Afghanistan adventure to be a success

No trillions wasn't spent in Afghanistan. Try to stick to actual facts. I imagine that if the Taliban comes back, women will once again be treated poorly without equal rights. Kinda the same way theyre treated by the rest of your buddies in the Middle East, with Israel being the exception. Edited July 21, 2013 by Shady

[Hudson Jones]

No trillions wasn't spent in Afghanistan. Try to stick to actual facts.

You're right. Not that I was trying to b.s. Billions is correct. Over 600 billion spent on Afghanistan. The point is still made.

I imagine that if the Taliban comes back, women will once again be treated poorly without equal rights. Kinda the same way theyre treated by the rest of your buddies in the Middle East, with Israel being the exception.

Don't become such a small human by calling them my buddies. I have never condoned anything the Taliban has done. Criticizing U.S.' action does not mean that I support the Taliban. Don't be such a simpleton. I suggest that you avoid using pity debating skills and stop trying to defame people with b.s. accusations.

[GostHacked]

No trillions wasn't spent in Afghanistan. Try to stick to actual facts. I imagine that if the Taliban comes back, women will once again be treated poorly without equal rights. Kinda the same way theyre treated by the rest of your buddies in the Middle East, with Israel being the exception.

http://www.businessinsider.com/money-spent-in-afghanistan-could-buy-at-home-2011-8

While the total amount spent on the two wars could range anywhere from $3.7 up to $5.2 trillion, depending how much the Pentagon pulled from its base budget, even small chunks could power many efforts at home.

Internet says you are wrong.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/OTUS/2000-dead-cost-war-afghanistan/story?id=17367728

The war in Afghanistan has cost the United States nearly $1.2 trillion -- or $1.172 trillion, to be exact -- since its inception in 2001 through July 31, 2012, according to the U.S. Defense Department.

[Shady]

You're right. Not that I was trying to b.s. Billions is correct. Over 600 billion spent on Afghanistan. The point is still made.

There's no need to stretch the facts. If it's 600 billion, there's no reason you can't say 600 billion. You purposely inflated the figure signficantly. It's not trillions, so stop saying trillions. You've done this in other threads too.

[Shady]

http://www.businessinsider.com/money-spent-in-afghanistan-could-buy-at-home-2011-8

Internet says you are wrong.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/OTUS/2000-dead-cost-war-afghanistan/story?id=17367728

No, you're references prove my point. The US hasn't spent "trillions" in Afghanistan. Regardless, my point is that it's not, or America's job to reconstruct Afghanistan. So if you're saying too much money has been spent, I agree with you.

[GostHacked]

No, you're references prove my point. The US hasn't spent "trillions" in Afghanistan. Regardless, my point is that it's not, or America's job to reconstruct Afghanistan. So if you're saying too much money has been spent, I agree with you.

So, you are telling me the Defense Department is not a good reference? You might be right, chances are this lowballing it.I suspect it is a lot more.

[carepov]

Nope. The Taliban was routed because they harboured al Qaeda terrorists. The invasion was a small scale operation that had nothing to do with the state of their country. So like I said, it's not our job to reconstruct something that never was constructed in the first place.

OK, I hear what you're saying but disagree.

First of all, the long-term stability and security of Afghanistan is in our own self-interest, therefore our job is to help with reconstruction as it is the only hope of long-term security and stability.

Secondly, once our leaders promise and commit to reconstruct it becomes our job.

I would also add that, whenever feasible, it is our job to help powerless people that are suffering.

[Hudson Jones]

There's no need to stretch the facts. If it's 600 billion, there's no reason you can't say 600 billion. You purposely inflated the figure signficantly. It's not trillions, so stop saying trillions. You've done this in other threads too.

Oh shush.

Stop trying to give me lessons in honesty. You of all people.

I actually didn't know the exact figure and I did think it was trillions. After looking it up, I saw that it was 600 billion so I corrected myself. If you think I have shared misinformation in other threads, share them. I do my best to never purposely share misinformation.

Back to the point, which still stands. A LOT of money has been spent on a mission which has become a failure in many different levels.

[Michael Hardner]

Back to the point, which still stands. A LOT of money has been spent on a mission which has become a failure in many different levels.

Yes, but you forgot to thank Shady for helping you with your argument by researching the actual number for you.

[Shady]

Oh shush.

Stop trying to give me lessons in honesty. You of all people.

I actually didn't know the exact figure and I did think it was trillions. After looking it up, I saw that it was 600 billion so I corrected myself. If you think I have shared misinformation in other threads, share them. I do my best to never purposely share misinformation.

Back to the point, which still stands. A LOT of money has been spent on a mission which has become a failure in many different levels.

Yep, it has been a waste. But you're the one insisting its our responsibility to rebuild that country and keep spending more. It's not our responsibility, nor should we keep spending.

[GostHacked]

Yep, it has been a waste. But you're the one insisting its our responsibility to rebuild that country and keep spending more. It's not our responsibility, nor should we keep spending.

If you invade and FSU, you are responsible to help rebuild. Not helping with the rebuild will facilitate anger towards the west in which would put the US specifically in the sites of another major terror attack.

I'd sure be pissed if that happened to Canada. Scenario, US invades Canada, FSU and then leaves. What kind of reaction would you have then?

[GostHacked]

Yes, but you forgot to thank Shady for helping you with your argument by researching the actual number for you.

Did he link anything that tells us the cost? I did not see one.

[Michael Hardner]

I think HJ confirmed the $600B number.

[Hudson Jones]

Yep, it has been a waste. But you're the one insisting its our responsibility to rebuild that country and keep spending more. It's not our responsibility, nor should we keep spending.

I am insisting that all of this has been a mistake.

Deciding to go into Afghanistan to get rid of the Taliban and any other tribes who didn't want to be the yes-man to the U.S. and was unwelcoming of the occupier was a mistake. The gameplan was a failure from the start. Nothing was achieved. Oh yes: A few schools were built in Kabul. Is that worth the $600 billion spent, thousands of American and Afghani lives wasted and the destruction the war has left behind? Of course not.

When will the war supporters learn that these adventures don't work? How many times should these mistakes be made until people realize that change cannot happen by military force? How many more failures before these people stop supporting the military industrial complex and their prostitutes (the politicians) that continue to push for these wars?

Change comes in time and it comes from within. You want proof? Look at China. How about you look at Vietnam? How about Myanmar? Through dialogue and the advocating of human rights, those countries have changed and are changing from within and without the meddling from the outsiders.

You want proof that it doesn't work? Look at Iraq. Look at Afghanistan. Look at Libya. Look at pretty much any country where the U.S. has attacked.

Edited July 24, 2013 by Hudson Jones

[Shady]

If you invade and FSU, you are responsible to help rebuild. Not helping with the rebuild will facilitate anger towards the west in which would put the US specifically in the sites of another major terror attack.I'd sure be pissed if that happened to Canada. Scenario, US invades Canada, FSU and then leaves. What kind of reaction would you have then?

The invasion was limited, and is not the reason Afghanistan needs rebuilding. Are you unaware of their history and society?

[Shady]

I am insisting that all of this has been a mistake.

Deciding to go into Afghanistan to get rid of the Taliban and any other tribes who didn't want to be the yes-man to the U.S. and was unwelcoming of the occupier was a mistake. The gameplan was a failure from the start. Nothing was achieved. Oh yes: A few schools were built in Kabul. Is that worth the $600 billion spent, thousands of American and Afghani lives wasted and the destruction the war has left behind? Of course not.

When will the war supporters learn that these adventures don't work? How many times should these mistakes be made until people realize that change cannot happen by military force? How many more failures before these people stop supporting the military industrial complex and their prostitutes (the politicians) that continue to push for these wars?

Change comes in time and it comes from within. You want proof? Look at China. How about you look at Vietnam? How about Myanmar? Through dialogue and the advocating of human rights, those countries have changed and are changing from within and without the meddling from the outsiders.

You want proof that it doesn't work? Look at Iraq. Look at Afghanistan. Look at Libya. Look at pretty much any country where the U.S. has attacked.

It wasn't to get rid of the Taliban, it was to remove al Qaida's sanctuary.

[Shady]

I think HJ confirmed the $600B number.

I think so too.

[Hudson Jones]

It wasn't to get rid of the Taliban, it was to remove al Qaida's sanctuary.

They wanted the Taliban to surrender Bin Laden and the Taliban did not. They attacked the Taliban and tried to remove it from power and they failed. Not only that, but Al Qaeda is alive and well in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq and Syria.

Al Qaeda does not need airplanes, tanks and helicopters. They can operate from a single room. Unleashing a military, as it has been demonstrated, does nothing.

Once this failure started to be realized, the U.S. tried to portray themselves as the savior of the Afghani people, where they will bring them schools, freedom to vote, cell phones and freedom fries. Besides a couple of schools in Kabul, the rest of Afghanistan has never really been under the control of U.S.

The U.S. failed in Afghanistan. The sooner you admit this reality to yourself, the easier it would be to make sense of it all and for you to stop advocating failure.

[Shady]

They wanted the Taliban to surrender Bin Laden and the Taliban did not. They attacked the Taliban and tried to remove it from power and they failed. Not only that, but Al Qaeda is alive and well in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq and Syria.

Al Qaeda does not need airplanes, tanks and helicopters. They can operate from a single room. Unleashing a military, as it has been demonstrated, does nothing.

Once this failure started to be realized, the U.S. tried to portray themselves as the savior of the Afghani people, where they will bring them schools, freedom to vote, cell phones and freedom fries. Besides a couple of schools in Kabul, the rest of Afghanistan has never really been under the control of U.S.

The U.S. failed in Afghanistan. The sooner you admit this reality to yourself, the easier it would be to make sense of it all and for you to stop advocating failure.

You're not making any sense. I have been saying that we shouldn't be spending more money there. I have been saying its not our responsibility to rebuild a country that was never built in the first place. You were the one suggesting the opposite. You're throne advocating more failure. You make no sense at all.

[DogOnPorch]

al-Zawahiri: Good news, Ahmed. You're getting a promotion. Here's your pay...a new AK-47 and...here...a new cell phone.

Ahmed: Is it a two year plan?

al-Zawahiri: Uhhhh...sure. You might want to remove the battery. Now...be off with you. Spread terror...etc.

Amhed: Will do! God is Great. (runs off down the road)

al-Zawahiri: God is Great, my son.

(the dull thud of an explosion can be heard...a Predator flies over)

al-Zawahiri: Good news, Abdul. You're getting a promotion...

[carepov]

I am insisting that all of this has been a mistake.

Deciding to go into Afghanistan to get rid of the Taliban and any other tribes who didn't want to be the yes-man to the U.S. and was unwelcoming of the occupier was a mistake. The gameplan was a failure from the start. Nothing was achieved. Oh yes: A few schools were built in Kabul. Is that worth the $600 billion spent, thousands of American and Afghani lives wasted and the destruction the war has left behind? Of course not.

When will the war supporters learn that these adventures don't work? How many times should these mistakes be made until people realize that change cannot happen by military force? How many more failures before these people stop supporting the military industrial complex and their prostitutes (the politicians) that continue to push for these wars?

Change comes in time and it comes from within. You want proof? Look at China. How about you look at Vietnam? How about Myanmar? Through dialogue and the advocating of human rights, those countries have changed and are changing from within and without the meddling from the outsiders.

You want proof that it doesn't work? Look at Iraq. Look at Afghanistan. Look at Libya. Look at pretty much any country where the U.S. has attacked.

IMO, the mistake was invading Iraq in 2003 instead of concentrating military resources and international political goodwill on the war in Afghanistan. The US had the world on it's side and the war could have been successful - similar to Operation Desert Storm.

You give good examples of the failures of war. There are however some good examples of successful Western military operations, like Sierra Leone in 1999. Also there are examples where non-intervention led to disaster: Rwanda.