Hudson Jones Posted June 29, 2013 Report Posted June 29, 2013 After 12 years of war, with thousands of innocent Afghanis killed, thousands of American soldiers killed, trillions of money spent fighting against the Taliban, the U.S. is pulling out and is now trying to negotiate with the Taliban. How many more times should we see failures like this before the war advocates realize that it's a failing system? Quote When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always. Gandhi
waldo Posted June 29, 2013 Report Posted June 29, 2013 apparently, (mostly) U.S. Republican heads were imploding everywhere these last weeks in the negotiation talks run-up period... the same heads that, for years on end, chastized anyone/everyone who did proffer suggestions of negotiating with the Taliban, or even giving it consideration. baby steps, as I doubt the (initial) talks will go anywhere. With talks timed to the recent days event where Nato forces handed official control of nationwide security to Afghan troops..... with the U.S. dropping all it's prior negotiation preconditions just to get the Taliban to the table, it appears the Taliban enter the talks with a bit of (false...?)'swagger'. Baby steps! Quote
kimmy Posted June 29, 2013 Report Posted June 29, 2013 The Taliban remain some of the crappiest people on earth. When they get them to the table, I hope they drop a bomb on the table. -k Quote (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ Friendly forum facilitator! ┬──┬◡ﾉ(° -°ﾉ)
Topaz Posted June 29, 2013 Report Posted June 29, 2013 It's not the US first failure Nam was and the US should have know they couldn't win if Russia failed to win against them. Besides the fact that they didn't seem so bad when Cheney wanted to talk oil pipeline or when the US fought with them against Russia. Certain governments want to control the Middle-East countries and I just wish those countries would mind its own business and look after there own first. It's been a very long time since the world has had PEACE. Quote
Signals.Cpl Posted June 29, 2013 Report Posted June 29, 2013 After 12 years of war, with thousands of innocent Afghanis killed, thousands of American soldiers killed, trillions of money spent fighting against the Taliban, the U.S. is pulling out and is now trying to negotiate with the Taliban. How many more times should we see failures like this before the war advocates realize that it's a failing system? Its the Afghan government Negotiating with the Taliban with American support, I am pretty sure its a success when the national government takes over and does what it feels is right for its people. Since the Government of Afghanistan has decided to negotiate with the Taliban I think the US should help them with whatever they need since the last decade was meant to allow Afghanistan to stand on their own feet. And as for the pulling out of Afghanistan, the US has trained and equipped several hundred thousand ANA and ANP members in order to allow the Government to protect its people, if the US stays for another 10 years that would not be a success nor a victory but rather a defeat as it would be an admission that Afghanistan is unable to look after itself... when the US and by extension ISAF pull out we will see if it is a success or not, judging it a failure because the US and NATO as a whole are doing what they said they will do from the get go is stupid beyond comparison... Quote Hope for the Best, Prepare for the Worst
roy baty Posted June 30, 2013 Report Posted June 30, 2013 . It's been a very long time since the world has had PEACE. It sure has. Before civilized man is a very long time. Quote
Guest American Woman Posted June 30, 2013 Report Posted June 30, 2013 It sure has. Before civilized man is a very long time. You think there was peace before man became civilized? Quote
Shady Posted June 30, 2013 Report Posted June 30, 2013 After 12 years of war, with thousands of innocent Afghanis killed, thousands of American soldiers killed, trillions of money spent fighting against the Taliban, the U.S. is pulling out and is now trying to negotiate with the Taliban. How many more times should we see failures like this before the war advocates realize that it's a failing system? When do you think the Taliban will allow women to be educated, instead of assaulting them with acid? Quote
roy baty Posted June 30, 2013 Report Posted June 30, 2013 (edited) You think there was peace before man became civilized? You're right. Before human beings should have been the correct wording... Edited June 30, 2013 by roy baty Quote
Guest American Woman Posted June 30, 2013 Report Posted June 30, 2013 You're right. Before human beings should have been the correct wording... The world was pretty violent then, too. Nature is filled with violence. Watch a lion go in for the kill, for example. The end result is either a violent death - or a very hungry lion. Beauty and cruelty - that's what the world consists of. Quote
Scotty Posted June 30, 2013 Report Posted June 30, 2013 (edited) Negotiating with the Taliban on the eve of withdrawal is pointless. The Taliban have no need to make compromises, and will easily overthrow the corrupt and incompetent administration of Hamid Karazai, who will probably not stay much longer than his American backers. He will be on a plane to Qatar with his family and his stolen millions, and the Taliban will be in control of Afghanistan once again. The only question will be whether the last of the Americans can get out before the Taliban smash their way through the gates of the US embassy. Will we see Americans desperately climbing up into helicopters as we did in Vietnam? Edited June 30, 2013 by Scotty Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
Shady Posted June 30, 2013 Report Posted June 30, 2013 Negotiating with the Taliban is essentially like negotiating with the Nazis. Apparently some people in this forum are happy about that. God knows why. Quote
Signals.Cpl Posted June 30, 2013 Report Posted June 30, 2013 Negotiating with the Taliban is essentially like negotiating with the Nazis. Apparently some people in this forum are happy about that. God knows why. Because it is the right of the Afghan Government to do as they see fit. This means that the government of Afghanistan is independent AKA the Americans did their job, they helped a nation build a government and a security apparatus and they are letting that nation make independent decisions. Quote Hope for the Best, Prepare for the Worst
Signals.Cpl Posted June 30, 2013 Report Posted June 30, 2013 Negotiating with the Taliban on the eve of withdrawal is pointless. The Taliban have no need to make compromises, and will easily overthrow the corrupt and incompetent administration of Hamid Karazai, who will probably not stay much longer than his American backers. He will be on a plane to Qatar with his family and his stolen millions, and the Taliban will be in control of Afghanistan once again. The only question will be whether the last of the Americans can get out before the Taliban smash their way through the gates of the US embassy. Will we see Americans desperately climbing up into helicopters as we did in Vietnam? Wasn't this the same predictions made about Iraq? Yet 3 years later it still stands as an independent nation. Some people will berate the US for pulling out or inversely berate the US for staying in Afghanistan. Quote Hope for the Best, Prepare for the Worst
jacee Posted June 30, 2013 Report Posted June 30, 2013 Because it is the right of the Afghan Government to do as they see fit. This means that the government of Afghanistan is independent AKA the Americans did their job, they helped a nation build a government and a security apparatus and they are letting that nation make independent decisions. I guess they got their pipeline built. Quote
Guest American Woman Posted June 30, 2013 Report Posted June 30, 2013 I guess they got their pipeline built.Source? Quote
ReeferMadness Posted June 30, 2013 Report Posted June 30, 2013 The Taliban remain some of the crappiest people on earth. When they get them to the table, I hope they drop a bomb on the table. -k Winning hearts and minds. Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
jacee Posted June 30, 2013 Report Posted June 30, 2013 (edited) Source?Canadian soldiers. They did figure out what they were actually 'defending'. Edited June 30, 2013 by jacee Quote
Guest American Woman Posted June 30, 2013 Report Posted June 30, 2013 Canadian soldiers. They did figure out what they were actually 'defending'.Could you provide the link, please? That's actually what I was requesting. Quote
Signals.Cpl Posted June 30, 2013 Report Posted June 30, 2013 I guess they got their pipeline built. Or they are doing what they said they would do from the get go. I love your logic, if they build a pipeline and are leaving that means they succeeded and Afghanistan will survive because if they build a pipeline only to hand over the who country to the Taliban would make no sense... glad you see Afghanistan as a success. Quote Hope for the Best, Prepare for the Worst
Signals.Cpl Posted June 30, 2013 Report Posted June 30, 2013 Canadian soldiers. They did figure out what they were actually 'defending'. Really? Any Source on that? Or are you talking about imaginary soldiers? Quote Hope for the Best, Prepare for the Worst
GostHacked Posted June 30, 2013 Report Posted June 30, 2013 Because it is the right of the Afghan Government to do as they see fit. This means that the government of Afghanistan is independent AKA the Americans did their job, they helped a nation build a government and a security apparatus and they are letting that nation make independent decisions. However it is the US negotiating with the Taliban and not the Afghan government. Quote
Scotty Posted June 30, 2013 Report Posted June 30, 2013 Because it is the right of the Afghan Government to do as they see fit. This means that the government of Afghanistan is independent AKA the Americans did their job, they helped a nation build a government and a security apparatus and they are letting that nation make independent decisions. Some people admire process. Some prefer results. In suggesting the Americans "did their job" in building a government you're admiring the process even though the results are abysmally bad. Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
Signals.Cpl Posted June 30, 2013 Report Posted June 30, 2013 However it is the US negotiating with the Taliban and not the Afghan government. From what I have seen it is the Afghan government negotiating with the Taliban. Quote Hope for the Best, Prepare for the Worst
Scotty Posted June 30, 2013 Report Posted June 30, 2013 Wasn't this the same predictions made about Iraq? Yet 3 years later it still stands as an independent nation. Some people will berate the US for pulling out or inversely berate the US for staying in Afghanistan. The situations are similar but not identical. The US was able to establish a real, legitimate government in Iraq which has general support across the nation. There is virtually no support left for the previous regime and no active military resistance on their behalf. The fighting in Iraq is between communities. In Afghanistan, the Taliban have never been successfully suppressed, and continue to control large parts of the countryside. The government in control has no real support, is widely perceived as thoroughly corrupt and incompetent, and has very little in the way of loyal, capable security forces at its disposal. Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
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