Guest American Woman Posted July 7, 2013 Report Share Posted July 7, 2013 This is false! Maybe this is true in the US (not entirely sure of the laws there),but in Canada,this statement is flat out wrong. Since this happened in the U.S., Canadian laws are irrelevant. It's been pointed out repeatedly now that he broke the law by his disclosure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWTT Posted July 7, 2013 Report Share Posted July 7, 2013 The gov wants to punish him for releasing info that they're spying on the citizens they represent, using taxpayer money. When governments turn against the people they're elected to represent, exposing them is patriotism. It's the errant government ops that should face the music. Yep!Pretty much sums it up! And as a zinger side note,Venezuela,Bolivia and Niceragua are willing to help out with the American patriot! Ironic that an American patriot is more beloved in a foriegn country. Only shows how twisted the US and it's propaganda machine has contorted/distorted civil liberties! WWWTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWTT Posted July 7, 2013 Report Share Posted July 7, 2013 Since this happened in the U.S., Canadian laws are irrelevant. It's been pointed out repeatedly now that he broke the law by his disclosure. You're still on my ignore list,but I'll respond to this one comment of yours. Snowden is seaking asylum in other countries,and if what he has done is NOT illegal in other countries where he seeks refuge,it will be easier to get it. Since what he had done is not illegal in Canada,he can seek refugee status in Canada! Even if what he done was not illegal in the US,if the government there doesn't like it,he will still be charged. WWWTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted July 7, 2013 Report Share Posted July 7, 2013 Yep!Pretty much sums it up! And as a zinger side note,Venezuela,Bolivia and Niceragua are willing to help out with the American patriot! Ironic that an American patriot is more beloved in a foriegn country. I would have thought the irony was that none of these nations have the slightest respect for freedom of information or the press, and that if Snowden or his local counterpart dared to release government information in any of these countries he'd be buried so deep in their prison system he'd never be seen or heard from again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted July 7, 2013 Report Share Posted July 7, 2013 Not necessarily. If you are exposing federal agency misconduct, then you might be protected by the law as a whistle-blower. Except there was no misconduct. The program was entirely legal, overseen by both judges and congress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted July 7, 2013 Report Share Posted July 7, 2013 Well theres many decades of jurisprudence that demonstrates that warrantless wiretapping is not legal, and the 4th Amendment isnt really that ambiguous. Which is why they require a warrant to do so. But the bulk of what is being done does not amount to wiretapping. It concerns metadata which shows who is communicating with who, not the contents of that communication. To put it another way, the government can't search your house without a warrant, but it doesn't need a warrant to know you HAVE a house, and where it is. Likewise it can't search your car without a warrant but it can certainly follow you around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWTT Posted July 7, 2013 Report Share Posted July 7, 2013 I would have thought the irony was that none of these nations have the slightest respect for freedom of information or the press, and that if Snowden or his local counterpart dared to release government information in any of these countries he'd be buried so deep in their prison system he'd never be seen or heard from again. Provide the link to add some credit to your opinion. You may be right,but as far as I'm concerned,you are implying that the countries providing asylum are guilty of what the US is alleged of doing and would punish with an even harder hand! Back it up! WWWTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest American Woman Posted July 7, 2013 Report Share Posted July 7, 2013 I would have thought the irony was that none of these nations have the slightest respect for freedom of information or the press, and that if Snowden or his local counterpart dared to release government information in any of these countries he'd be buried so deep in their prison system he'd never be seen or heard from again. It is truly ironic. As if any of these nations, if they even are sincere in their offers of asylum, which I really question, wouldn't prosecute if this had happened in their countries. It's just an easy opportunity to criticize the U.S. - with the usual crowd cheering them on. I'm sure, though, that the world would be a much better place if Venezuela, Bolivia, or Nicaragua were the sole super power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest American Woman Posted July 7, 2013 Report Share Posted July 7, 2013 You're still on my ignore list,but I'll respond to this one comment of yours. So how does your ignore list work, exactly? Since you obviously read my posts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted July 7, 2013 Report Share Posted July 7, 2013 Snowden is seaking asylum in other countries,and if what he has done is NOT illegal in other countries where he seeks refuge,it will be easier to get it. WWWTT Canada won't grant him asylum for many incredibly obvious reasons, so I don't know why you would even make this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWTT Posted July 7, 2013 Report Share Posted July 7, 2013 Canada won't grant him asylum for many incredibly obvious reasons, so I don't know why you would even make this point. Actually,if Snowden was facing the death penalty in the US,then somehow found his way on Canadian soil,he could/may be granted refugee status! I am pretty sure that the death penalty would guarantee him staying here,but it would be up to a judge without it. And given the current Canadian government,I doubt he would have any success in staying here under these circumstances (there was a controversial case a few years back about a Canadian who was facing the death penalty in the US,and the Harper conservatives didn't make any attempt to stop it,which was very unusual,and there are big differences in this case) However,I believe in theory it is possible. Aswell,there ARE people in Canada that would welcome him! WWWTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 7, 2013 Report Share Posted July 7, 2013 Actually,if Snowden was facing the death penalty in the US,then somehow found his way on Canadian soil,he could/may be granted refugee status! But he is not facing the "death penalty", and Canada stopped rolling over for U.S. asylum seekers many years ago....long before PM Harper took office. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWTT Posted July 7, 2013 Report Share Posted July 7, 2013 Which is why they require a warrant to do so. But the bulk of what is being done does not amount to wiretapping. It concerns metadata which shows who is communicating with who, not the contents of that communication. To put it another way, the government can't search your house without a warrant, but it doesn't need a warrant to know you HAVE a house, and where it is. Likewise it can't search your car without a warrant but it can certainly follow you around. Guess again! http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2013/jun/21/nsa-surveillance-metadata-content-obama WWWTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest American Woman Posted July 7, 2013 Report Share Posted July 7, 2013 Actually,if Snowden was facing the death penalty in the US....Yeah, if, if, if, eh? And if I were such and such, whatever, I'd be the Queen of England. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted July 8, 2013 Report Share Posted July 8, 2013 It is truly ironic. As if any of these nations, if they even are sincere in their offers of asylum, which I really question, wouldn't prosecute if this had happened in their countries. It's just an easy opportunity to criticize the U.S. - with the usual crowd cheering them on. I'm sure, though, that the world would be a much better place if Venezuela, Bolivia, or Nicaragua were the sole super power. I'm sure we're better off with a balance of powers. The US reaction to Snowden's caper is somewhat hard to fathom. The data released by Snowden is of SO little importance that no one should be concerned about invasion of their privacy at all ! AND the data is so important that Snowden will be hunted down around the world to be brought to US justice. I mean ... is the information important or not? It's just a conundrum wrapped up in a dilemma. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre Posted July 8, 2013 Report Share Posted July 8, 2013 Except there was no misconduct. The program was entirely legal, overseen by both judges and congress. Actually congress was lied to about the existance of the program. And we wont know if the program was legal or not until theres a constitutional challenge. Either way... the guy did the right thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted July 8, 2013 Report Share Posted July 8, 2013 Actually congress was lied to about the existance of the program. And we wont know if the program was legal or not until theres a constitutional challenge. Either way... the guy did the right thing. Who could have standing for a constitutional challenge? Could Snowden? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 8, 2013 Report Share Posted July 8, 2013 (edited) Who could have standing for a constitutional challenge? Could Snowden? Not likely...he would have to demonstrate that his rights were violated excluding the many employment waivers he would have voluntarily signed for NSA contract work, background checks, credit check, voluntary disclosures, etc. Then there would be the matter of which jurisdiction to bring suit in based on an alleged violation being committed by the U.S. government. More likely to succeed might be a class action lawsuit approved by a court, but this usually gets negotiated and settled by a government rules or policy change. Happens a lot with Medicare and Medicaid plaintiffs. Under no circumstances will there be a big show trial or impeachment proceeding against the current administration. Edited July 8, 2013 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topaz Posted July 8, 2013 Report Share Posted July 8, 2013 We all know that if a person from N.Korea, China or Russian had info on their country like Snowden does, the US would bend over backs to take them and for that manner probably ANY country against the three countries would. Other than all this spying,which most countries do, what information does he have against the US? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted July 8, 2013 Report Share Posted July 8, 2013 (edited) (there was a controversial case a few years back about a Canadian who was facing the death penalty in the US,and the Harper conservatives didn't make any attempt to stop it This should give you a clue as to how they would handle an American being pursued by the United States for prosecution. If the government is not even willing to intercede on a Canadian's behalf to prevent him from being murdered by the US government, a practice which our government does not endorse, then there is no way in hell they would grant asylum to someone whom the US has labelled a national security threat and a traitor. He's a wanted "criminal" despite never having been tried and it being highly unlikely that he will be given a fair trial. Canada will support the US in whatever way they can to detain Snowden and return him to face his charges. Our country upholds the rule of law and in Snowden's case that means facing the courts for the crimes that he has been charged. Any doubts about the "fairness" of the trial are cynicism, speculation, and mere opinion; our government will not take this into account when considering the legality of harbouring a wanted criminal. If it were a country that is known to have an unfair judicial system, then it would be an entirely different story. Nevertheless, our government considers the US an ally and we consider their justice system to be fair. When our government fights to get people off death row, it is under the agreement that they will spend life in prison in Canada for their crimes. The US is under no obligation to agree to this. If you do a crime in their country, you face their courts and their penalties. Edited July 8, 2013 by cybercoma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted July 8, 2013 Report Share Posted July 8, 2013 It's just an easy opportunity to criticize the U.S. - with the usual crowd cheering them on. If the US government (and especially state governments) does one thing well, it's that they make it incredibly easy to criticize them. The problem with some Americans is that they're so nationalistic that they think criticizing the "US" means criticizing Americans, as opposed to what it actually is, criticizing the US government. All governments should be criticized, lest we be sheep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 8, 2013 Report Share Posted July 8, 2013 (edited) Many Americans criticize their government, and have done so for a very long time. Americans certainly don't need any lectures about this from Canada (land of publication bans, hate speech laws, etc.) of all places. Edited July 8, 2013 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted July 8, 2013 Report Share Posted July 8, 2013 Many Americans criticize their government, and have done so for a very long time. Americans certainly don't need any lectures about this from Canada (land of publication bans, hate speech laws, etc.) of all places.Then maybe you should log out and stop contributing to discussions about Canadian politics as well. Live by your own standards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 8, 2013 Report Share Posted July 8, 2013 Then maybe you should log out and stop contributing to discussions about Canadian politics as well. Live by your own standards. Canadian politics is hopelessly boring...I'm only here for the wannabe comments about the USA, otherwise I would have been gone long ago. Let me guess: " What happens in the U.S. affects Canada so much we are like Americans anyway." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted July 8, 2013 Report Share Posted July 8, 2013 Let me guess: " What happens in the U.S. affects Canada so much we are like Americans anyway." And vice versa. Who would limit discussion, unless it made things worse/more boring anyway ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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