Should Marijuana Be Legal?

[BubberMiley]

Pretty hard to hide booze outside of a school, when drugs fit so neatly into pockets. Nice try.

Uh...one ounce of weed is about the same size as 13 ounces of spirits. Alcohol is certainly portable enough to sell.

[roy baty]

Uh...one ounce of weed is about the same size as 13 ounces of spirits. Alcohol is certainly portable enough to sell.

You're forgetting that weed is not as portable as one might think. Booze in a bottle doesn't stink like some weed does. Even when sealed, small amounts would stink a room up. An ounce even more so. Of course, hash is not considered here as it is extremely portable.

[Topaz]

I don't care if people want to smoke it but I do care about the increase in health care that would probably happen in the future by more people getting hooked on it and getting the same lung diseases as tobacco. There also, the fact that when one compares it to booze and having too many, get behind a wheel and kill yourself or others. Perhaps if it did become legal, all smokers of it, would give up their healthcare or pay for your own treatments when cancer takes over.

[BubberMiley]

I don't care if people want to smoke it but I do care about the increase in health care that would probably happen in the future by more people getting hooked on it and getting the same lung diseases as tobacco.

Get with the 21st century. We use vaporizers now. No tar, no stink, no red eyes. Just a much more efficient high.

[ReeferMadness]

I don't care if people want to smoke it but I do care about the increase in health care that would probably happen in the future by more people getting hooked on it and getting the same lung diseases as tobacco. There also, the fact that when one compares it to booze and having too many, get behind a wheel and kill yourself or others. Perhaps if it did become legal, all smokers of it, would give up their healthcare or pay for your own treatments when cancer takes over.

If you want to compare cannabis to alcohol or tobacco, do some research first. They are very different substances with very different effects. I've never seen any research that the health effects of cannabis are even remotely similar to tobacco. And stoned drivers are not as dangerous as drunk drivers. Alcohol makes you aggressive and take risks. Cannabis does the opposite.

[Rue]

If you want to compare cannabis to alcohol or tobacco, do some research first. They are very different substances with very different effects. I've never seen any research that the health effects of cannabis are even remotely similar to tobacco. And stoned drivers are not as dangerous as drunk drivers. Alcohol makes you aggressive and take risks. Cannabis does the opposite.

With due respect I think you need to do some research. Your comments above are subjective opinions not based on scientific fact and misrepresent what actual research has been done.

For example:

http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/evidence99/marijuana/Health_1.html

http://www.health.gov.au/internet/main/publishing.nsf/Content/5A648B4BA51D4891CA25703400033ED6/%24File/mono44.pdf

http://www.camh.ca/en/hospital/health_information/a_z_mental_health_and_addiction_information/marijuana/Pages/cannabis_dyk.aspx

Now I doubt anything I say will change your opinion-the one thing surveys do show is that pot smokers are surprisingly uninterested in any opinion but their own. That is no different than people who smoke tobacco or drink alcohol. People who want to smoke could care less what anyone thinks.

The fact is t o portray it as a harmless drug is nonsensical. We do not know the long term effects. More to the point it effects each person differently.

For people who self medicate because they have psychiatric disorders like schizophrenia, depression, adhd, bi-polar disorder, ocd, it can or can not help depending on the individual.

What we do know is that with some people who use it all the time, they do become dependent on it and when they withdraw suddenly they have acute psychotic manifestations including hallucinations, passing out, seizures, convulsions, overwhelming feelings of suicide and depression, anxiety, and anger.

It slows down reflexes no different then alcohol and so it is a lethal mix when driving a car or operating any machinery.

Long term it can damage the retina and night vision no different than tobacco.

Like tobacco cannabis smoke does in fact contain carcinogens. Anything that burns will leave a black tar substance on the lungs that may lead to lung cancer or throat cancer.

Of course it can cause lung and respiratory illnesses.

Some studies indicate it leads to sterility in men, increases in miscarriages in women and it most definitely would have adverse effects when women are pregnant and smoke it.

Studies also show that if men smoke it long term their hormones change and they can look forward to large breasts. So be my guest.

Do not get me wrong. My generation smoked it as did I so we are in no position to be two faced about it but pretending its harmless is bull. Its not. No smoke you inhale is harmless. No drug we take is absent of negative side effects.

That said, of course it is valuable as a medicine to treat certain kinds of epilepsy, glaucoma, nausea from chemotherapy, drug resistant depression, certain kinds of ocd or some studies show some mild tics associated with Tourette's syndrome and it is an alternative as chronic back pain medication for those who can not tolerate drugs so of course using it as a medicine is important.

All I am saying is if it is legalized there are consequences. The rate of car accidents will go up.

It will also end up controlled by the federal government no different than tobacco and one would think the taxes placed on it would go to increased health care costs although some would argue the increased tax revenue would be wasted elsewhere.

If you think its harmless think again. On the other hand the time has come to tax it and regulate it. I feel the same way about prostitution. These are inevitable behaviours that will not go away.

However Topaz has a valid point.

[Topaz]

If you want to compare cannabis to alcohol or tobacco, do some research first. They are very different substances with very different effects. I've never seen any research that the health effects of cannabis are even remotely similar to tobacco. And stoned drivers are not as dangerous as drunk drivers. Alcohol makes you aggressive and take risks. Cannabis does the opposite.

As a matter a fact, a local health agent in Ontario, said that smoking anything, but we are talking pot, does the same harm as tobacco over time. I would say, that just like drugs, people react differently and so you can't positively say there would be no danger to drivers.

[BubberMiley]

I'm pretty sure you're misquoting your anonymous local health agent. Because no one would say that.

[GostHacked]

What a desperate argument.

What do you think is happening now that it is illegal? Legalize it and you drastically reduce the criminal element. Save money by not prosecuting these crimes and jailing people for pot use. Save money by not needing a huge police department to handle the pot crimes. Money saved there can be put into health care and addiction rehab places.

Streets will be safer because everyone will be chillin smokin a blunt.

Pot use goes up , violence goes down.

I suggest watching some vids from youtube called 'Drug Inc'. Out of all the drugs out there, the ONLY show that had a positive spin was the one about pot.

[On Guard for Thee]

I don't care if people want to smoke it but I do care about the increase in health care that would probably happen in the future by more people getting hooked on it and getting the same lung diseases as tobacco. There also, the fact that when one compares it to booze and having too many, get behind a wheel and kill yourself or others. Perhaps if it did become legal, all smokers of it, would give up their healthcare or pay for your own treatments when cancer takes over.

As long as drinkers and tobacco smokers give up their health care when cancer takes over. Just don't come back bitching when your income tax goes through the roof to make up the shortfalls from "sin tax"

[Topaz]

I can see the tobacco lobbyists riding on the government NOT to make pot legal. In a senate hearing , tobacco company had a spoke person who was trying to make First Nation cigs, harder to get over their product.

[Smallc]

Those things aren't remotely related.... And my gf doesn't smoke much, but smokes more when she's high so...

[jacee]

As long as drinkers and tobacco smokers give up their health care ..."

Did you know that uptight judgemental people have more strokes, alzheimers and dementia?

Chillax man! You'll pop a bloodvessel fussing about things you can't control, like other peoples' business.

And you'll chew up a lot of my taxpayer dollars when you are a mindless bunch of skin needing full care the rest of your life!

[jacee]

1) Crime will go up as gangs shoot it up over market share.

There won't be any "market share" for criminal gangs, unless they go legit and sell to government approved suppliers.

Get it?

If pot is LEGAL, criminals are out of the business ... because it isn't criminal anymore.

[jacee]

All I am saying is if it is legalized there are consequences. The rate of car accidents will go up.

It will also end up controlled by the federal government no different than tobacco and one would think the taxes placed on it would go to increased health care costs although some would argue the increased tax revenue would be wasted elsewhere.

If you think its harmless think again. On the other hand the time has come to tax it and regulate it. I feel the same way about prostitution. These are inevitable behaviours that will not go away.

Of course it's time!

But why do people assume that use will go up with legalization?

Why do you assume more people will drive under the influence ... which is already illegal and will continue to be.

I think those assumptions are ridiculous.

There are people who shouldn't drink booze because of specific health issues. That's for them to take care of. Doesn't mean it should be illegal for everyone!

[sharkman]

There won't be any "market share" for criminal gangs, unless they go legit and sell to government approved suppliers.

Get it?

If pot is LEGAL, criminals are out of the business ... because it isn't criminal anymore.

You are a fanboy for pot, I get that, but if you can't reason with objective thinking then your opinions are not worth considering. Let's say you make, after expenses, 1 million a year growing and selling pot illegally of course. You have a network of people under you growing, processing and selling your product for you. You have contacts in the States whom you deal with as well selling your pot. Alberta too, you're doing quite well.

So with the stroke of a pen, pot is made legal overnight. Now it's legal for you to sell the stuff. But you, with your network under you and contacts across the Northwest are going to suddenly abandon all that and sell only to government approved suppliers, whatever the hell that is. All of the present growers of pot are simply going to either sell only to the government or go out of business. Not one single operation will continue to sell on the black market where the profits are higher and they have established customers who wouldn't have to pay taxes. The leap of logic there is stunning.

Edited September 15, 2013 by sharkman

[BubberMiley]

Fanboy? Hey, there's a canny debate tactic. Name-calling always works!

But with regard to your question, there is historical precedent with the end of alcohol prohibition. Did the networks just dry up and the multi-million dollar black market die overnight?

Why, yes. It certainly did.

[GostHacked]

Fanboy? Hey, there's a canny debate tactic. Name-calling always works!

But with regard to your question, there is historical precedent with the end of alcohol prohibition. Did the networks just dry up and the multi-million dollar black market die overnight?

Why, yes. It certainly did.

All these new businesses will open claiming 'Try our stuff, we have over 20 years experience with the finest herbs'. But you just opened yesterday!?!??

[jacee]

You are a fanboy ...

I am no kind of "boy", sonny.

or pot, I get that, but if you can't reason with objective thinking then your opinions are not worth considering.

ooooo ... stooping to personal insults ...

Really weakens your "objective thinking" claim.

Let's say you make, after expenses, 1 million a year growing and selling pot illegally of course. You have a network of people under you growing, processing and selling your product for you. You have contacts in the States whom you deal with as well selling your pot. Alberta too, you're doing quite well.

So with the stroke of a pen, pot is made legal overnight. Now it's legal for you to sell the stuff.

Only through government regulated processes - like alcohol.

But you, with your network under you and contacts across the Northwest are going to suddenly abandon all that and sell only to government approved suppliers, whatever the hell that is. All of the present growers of pot are simply going to either sell only to the government or go out of business. Not one single operation will continue to sell on the black market where the profits are higher and they have established customers who wouldn't have to pay taxes. The leap of logic there is stunning.

Maybe one.

(There's still a few after hours bootleggers around too, and a few moonshine stills.)

But cops will have more time to bust illegal sellers ... and buyers.

People want to buy legal.

That's the point of legalizing.

People don't want to deal with criminals.

Just want more choices at the 'liquor' store.

[jacee]

All these new businesses will open claiming 'Try our stuff, we have over 20 years experience with the finest herbs'. But you just opened yesterday!?!??

The customers are gone because nobody wants to buy illegal, and the cops are blitz-busting the illegal trade.

Just like the end of prohibition when the criminal trade in alcohol plunged.

[dre]

Interesting point, it seems to me that if a teen wants something bad enough they will find a way to get it. Legalization doesn't touch this issue.

Actually it does because every dollar thats spent on prohibition is a dollar not spent on drug treatment. If drugs were legalized or decriminalized the number of those seeking treatment would go through the roof, and the number of social and medical problems caused by drug use would go way down.

[dre]

You are a fanboy for pot, I get that, but if you can't reason with objective thinking then your opinions are not worth considering. Let's say you make, after expenses, 1 million a year growing and selling pot illegally of course. You have a network of people under you growing, processing and selling your product for you. You have contacts in the States whom you deal with as well selling your pot. Alberta too, you're doing quite well.

So with the stroke of a pen, pot is made legal overnight. Now it's legal for you to sell the stuff. But you, with your network under you and contacts across the Northwest are going to suddenly abandon all that and sell only to government approved suppliers, whatever the hell that is. All of the present growers of pot are simply going to either sell only to the government or go out of business. Not one single operation will continue to sell on the black market where the profits are higher and they have established customers who wouldn't have to pay taxes. The leap of logic there is stunning.

What we found when alcohol was decriminalized was that black marketeering stayed around for a while but eventually shrunk to nothing. A black market operation cannot compete with a company like Jack Daniels, Budwieser or Bacardi, and those companies in general are not going to jeapordize large profitable legal operations, by running paralell illegal operations.

Its true that legalization would not completely eliminate the black market... we still see a black market component to the sales of cigerettes and alcohol, and even prescriptions drugs... But its relatively tiny.

What we basically do now, is take a gigantic established multi-billion dollar industry with mainstream demand for product, and we guarantee all that profit for criminals. Honest, taxpaying, regulated businessmen are not allowed to participate. That is the REAL result of our policies is that the government protects criminal organizations from competition, causing them to make a fortune, which they then invest in OTHER illegal activity (human trafficing, sexual slavery, extortion, racketeering, etc etc.

Theres simply no reason for the government to enact policies that benefit nobody but criminals.

[sharkman]

Apples and oranges, but well thought out at least, and flip a coin because you could be partly right.

[Smallc]

Partly? What he said is rather irrefutable.

[BubberMiley]

Apples and oranges, but well thought out at least, and flip a coin because you could be partly right.

How is it "apples and oranges?" If you're going to play, you should try harder than that. Next you'll be getting all "I don't care about pot" and calling people fanboys. If you don't want to debate, you shouldn't bother debating.