Should Marijuana Be Legal?

[BubberMiley]

It's the rules of driving, like putting tires on your car. Human projectiles can hurt more than themselves.

[ReeferMadness]

I've yet to hear a good reason for prohibition.

Which is likely because there aren't any.

[ReeferMadness]

What if it is virtually certain that they are going to harm someone?

And you determine that how?

[G Huxley]

What if it is virtually certain that they are going to harm someone?

What substance could anyone take to make it virtually certain they are going to harm someone?

[G Huxley]

That's not the point. You aren't harming anyone by not wearing a seat belt. Why is it illegal not to wear one?

That is the point, your seatbelt analogy was in response to my comment about a person's sovereignty over their own body. A seatbelt is external to the body so its not an analogy that fits my comment.

A seatbelt is a logical regulation in a social democracy, and it does not infringe on anyone's sovereignty over their own body.

Edited June 13, 2013 by G Huxley

[G Huxley]

The Ban on Psychedelic Drug Research Cripples Science:

"Restricting the use of psychoactive drugs in research represents the most serious case of scientific censorship since the Catholic Church banned the works of Copernicus and Galileo, some scientists say."

http://news.yahoo.com/banning-psychedelic-drugs-hurts-research-scientists-171601009.html

[GostHacked]

OMG a sidewalk in the back of a movie theatre has teenagers smoking pot? That's exactly the same as someone standing outside their office building smoking a joint.

Would be good to make a clarification. Were the kids employed by the theater? In either case, yes that warrants a firing. There is a time and a place for everything. Smoking pot before or while at work is just really stupid.

Be responsible with your habit.

[bush_cheney2004]

Deleted - wrong thread

Edited June 14, 2013 by bush_cheney2004

[MadX]

What substance could anyone take to make it virtually certain they are going to harm someone?

Bath salts

[G Huxley]

Not even bath salts make it virtually certain a person is going to harm anyone and bath salts are about the worse you can get.

[On Guard for Thee]

Of course it should be legal. Has it being illegal stopped anyone? And I bet there is a lot more harm done with booze and tobacco. And I was totally taken aback by the stupidity of Stephen Harper who told Peter Mansbridge that "when you buy a marijuana cigaretter you are not buying it from your neighbor, you are buying it from Mexican drug cartels" Yep, and under his direction we will continue to be forced to do so. Maybe Harper's got money in Mexico.

[Boges]

Of course it should be legal. Has it being illegal stopped anyone? And I bet there is a lot more harm done with booze and tobacco. And I was totally taken aback by the stupidity of Stephen Harper who told Peter Mansbridge that "when you buy a marijuana cigaretter you are not buying it from your neighbor, you are buying it from Mexican drug cartels" Yep, and under his direction we will continue to be forced to do so. Maybe Harper's got money in Mexico.

Again I've said I support decriminalization or legalization. BUT this whole alcohol and tobacco are worse argument is silly, people need to get off that talking point.

[On Guard for Thee]

Not so silly I believe. I would venture a guess that the impact on health care costs are far greater from alcohol/tobacco use than from marijuana. AND if rhe government legalized the latter and taxed it, the cash flow would be significant. Also, in my experiences in roaming around this country from sea to sea to sea, I don't seem to recall ever seeing a couple of guys passing a joint around and then getting into a fist fight, like I have seen them do in bars. But that's just my experience. Bottom line to me is that people are sitting in jail cells for smoking a joint while I can sit in my back yard and drink all the cold beer I want. Happily I quit smoking many years ago. I'm sure the federal government will never go for it, but i say let's throw out the Harper baby with the pot law bath water.

[Boges]

That's because more people use tobacco and alcohol, there's a far greater sample size to work with.

The healthcare costs for alcohol and tobacco are usually due to decades of chronic abuse. I don't think we have the same figures in regards to pot use.

I'm sure if someone smokes pot every day for decades, there'd be some health affects associated with that.

Also the bar fight analogy is a weird one. I've never felt the need to fight when drunk. Alcohol removes inhibitions, so if you're the type of person that loses your temper quickly or are just a jerk perhaps getting drunk makes you more likely to fight.

There are also happy drunks that become very lovable and sexually forward when drunk.

As I said earlier in the thread, pot might be safer in regards to abuse (less addictive and such). But people can consume alcohol and tobacco with very little impairment. Not so with pot. You don't have to consume very much weed to be quite impaired.

That's why a lot of people like it. There's also no hangover the next day and makes you sleep well. Oh and there's the associated munchies.

Edited June 17, 2013 by Boges

[G Huxley]

Again I've said I support decriminalization or legalization. BUT this whole alcohol and tobacco are worse argument is silly, people need to get off that talking point.

Nothing could be more obvious. Between alcohol and tobacco over a million are killed annually, a holocaust. Deaths from marijuana annually 0.

Edited June 17, 2013 by G Huxley

[Boges]

Nothing could be more obvious. Between alcohol and tobacco over a million are killed annually, a holocaust. Deaths from marijuana annually 0.

6 people died two weeks ago in a building collapse in Philly. The guy demolishing the building was high on weed. So I call BS.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/13/inspector-suicide-philadelphia-building-collapse_n_3434197.html

A demolition subcontractor, 42-year-old Sean Benschop, has been charged with six counts of involuntary manslaughter for allegedly being "impaired" by marijuana and painkillers while operating an excavator just before the crash. He also had his right hand in a cast, but his lawyer has said he was fit to work that day. The collapse was an accident and Benschop was not responsible for it, his lawyer has said.

Do people that smoke cigarettes reach an impairment that can hurt people?

All drugs have their risks. Abusing alcohol and tobacco can cause a great deal of harm. Same with unhealthy foods. Marijuana is no different, it can be used responsibly. But it's not the type of drug people can use and do normal day-to-day stuff functionally.

So there are serious risk associated with its use even if the long-term health effects and instances of addiction are far less.

Edited June 17, 2013 by Boges

[G Huxley]

6 people died two weeks ago in a building collapse in Philly. The guy demolishing the building was high on weed. So I call BS.

And I call BS on your conclusion. There is nothing proven in that article, merely lots of different supposition. You know nothing about the circumstances in that article, and the best the article could claim was 'alleged.'

Do people that smoke cigarettes reach an impairment that can hurt people?

Second hand smoke kills a holocaust every year.

Marijuana is no different, it can be used responsibly. But it's not the type of drug people can use and do normal day-to-day stuff functionally.

The same logic applies, you don't drink on the job. You don't operate heavy machinery while stoned.

That's no excuse to ban cannabis.

So there are serious risk associated with its use even if the long-term health effects and instances of addiction are far less.

No there are serious risks with misuse, not its use. Anything can be misused. If you misuse water you can die, and thousands die from misusing water every year.

[Boges]

And I call BS on your conclusion. There is nothing proven in that article, merely lots of different supposition. You know nothing about the circumstances in that article, and the best the article could claim was 'alleged.'

Would you be comfortable having someone high on marijuana operating heavy machinery anywhere near you?

Second hand smoke kills a holocaust every year.

I'm sure if there were multiple generations where smoking cannabis inside indoor public places were common, I'm sure you'd see figures associated with second-hand smoke there as well.

Currently in much of the western world smoking in public places is banned so, I'll assume you'd see instances of second-hand smoke greatly reduced.

The same logic applies, you don't drink on the job. You don't operate heavy machinery while stoned.

That's no excuse to ban cannabis.

I never said banning cannabis was correct. But before completely legalizing it, there should be some form of quick testing available to law enforcement so that using it, in excess, while doing technical tasks can be made illegal and enforceable.

No there are serious risks with misuse, not its use. Anything can be misused. If you misuse water you can die, and thousands die from misusing water every year.

That's all I'm saying, tobacco and alcohol are used responsibly by a great majority of people. So to say those drugs are worse than cannabis is of folly IMHO. These types of drugs can all be used responsibly.

My only concern with cannabis is that it's such a potent drug that a high level of impairment is almost always the result of it's consumption. That comes with a lot of risk that needs to be highly regulated. Whereas use of tobacco and alcohol can be used in low doses where the level of impairment isn't nearly as high. Smoking one cigarette is rather harmless. Smoking one joint will make most people extremely impaired comparable to being extremely intoxicated with alcohol.

Edited June 18, 2013 by Boges

[G Huxley]

Would you be comfortable having someone high on marijuana operating heavy machinery anywhere near you?

I already said I don't trust anyone operating machinery under the influence of anything including marijuana. Why ask me again?

I'm sure if there were multiple generations where smoking cannabis inside indoor public places were common, I'm sure you'd see figures associated with second-hand smoke there as well.

Give me second hand cannabis smoke any day. I'd much prefer that to 2nd hand tobacco smoke.

I never said banning cannabis was correct. But before completely legalizing it, there should be some form of quick testing available to law enforcement so that using it, in excess, while doing technical tasks can be made illegal and enforceable.

Yeah I agree the two should be done simultaneously. Legalize while banning it for using heavy machinery, surgery etc. you get the idea.

That's all I'm saying, tobacco and alcohol are used responsibly by a great majority of people. So to say those drugs are worse than cannabis is of folly IMHO. These types of drugs can all be used responsibly.

They kill a holocaust of people every year. And I've never met a responsible person drunk. But I have been attacked by many drunk people, and had a friend who was stabbed to death by a drunk.

hereas use of tobacco and alcohol can be used in low doses where the level of impairment isn't nearly as high.

Tobacco yes, alcohol no.

Edited June 19, 2013 by G Huxley

[G Huxley]

“At last, the edifice of drugs prohibition is starting to crumble,”

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2013/jun/14/edifice-drugs-prohibition-crumbling

[On Guard for Thee]

Let's just put the whole thing very very simply.

I can drink beer in my house all night. Legal

I can smoke cigarettes in my house all night. Legal.

I can smoke canabis in my house all night, and end up in jail with a criminal record.

Why?

[Boges]

Let's just put the whole thing very very simply.

I can smoke canabis in my house all night, and end up in jail with a criminal record.

Why?

That's very unlikely in Canada at this point.

[BubberMiley]

I miss the old days when people still tried to present a reasonable argument in favour of prohibition. Debating on this board was fun then.

[Level Head Crooked Smile]

Cannabis is the most useful plant knwn to man. It's been proven that in the short term it doesn't even kill braincells, just temporarily freezes them. If we legalized it and exploited it the commercial boom would be tremendous, jobs created through paper and fiber manufacturing alone, environmental conservation as a result. It's a pretty one sided argument in terms of pros and cons. The main reason it's illegal is due to it threatening predominant industries such as timber paper and from a general attitude of keeping the status quo. Not to mention public ignorance. And to reply offhand to an earlier comment I saw, society and more specifically, the government, makes more money from the use of tobacco then it puts out as a result of needed healthcare because of it.

[G Huxley]

That's very unlikely in Canada at this point.

Yet still possible. Why?