roy baty Posted May 30, 2013 Report Share Posted May 30, 2013 How are you qualified to judge someone who has been found by a court of of law to be not criminally responsible? And by his doctors to be safe for escorted outings? I agree the act was monstrous, but he probably does too when he's on his meds. I never judged him, I stated what I feel that he is in my opinion based on his acts. For the record, he is obviously completely insane and of course by our justice system is deemed not criminally responsible and I support their verdict on his crimes. I am also 100% sure our ultimate judge (whether you believe in one or not) will certainly not judge his acts as a crime. This still doesn't change what he does as any less monstrous than it was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roy baty Posted May 30, 2013 Report Share Posted May 30, 2013 (edited) I doubt it, and like I said, you're worse than this guy. And like I said, what makes you so high and mighty to judge me? By your own standards, then you've proven to be no better than I. Edited May 30, 2013 by roy baty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted May 30, 2013 Report Share Posted May 30, 2013 Thanks for personal attack #2 eyeball. I'm not attacking you, I'm defending Vincent Li and the mentally ill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted May 30, 2013 Report Share Posted May 30, 2013 And like I said, what makes you so high and mighty to judge me? By your own standards, then you've proven to be no better than I. Oh, you have a schizophrenic son too? If you dislike the term I used, or my opinion of what qualifies a person as a monster that's your problem but to morally judge me as a person for that opinion and term is completely arrogant. You aren't qualified to judge me or anyone else. I leave that up to someone else w/ more authority on the matter as you should. Go piss up a rope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roy baty Posted May 30, 2013 Report Share Posted May 30, 2013 I'm not attacking you, I'm defending Vincent Li and the mentally ill. Spin it any way you want eyeball.. We differ on opinion as to what the definition of a monster is, its as simple as that and you react by attacking me for it, plain and simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 30, 2013 Report Share Posted May 30, 2013 The only monsters here are people who would treat mentally ill people as monsters. Actually, what I think would be monstrous would be to risk other lives so this guy can have an illusion of freedom. He doesn't have to be locked up in a prison, being not criminally responsible for his actions, but he should be kept in a secure facility for the insane. He can be comfortable, as he isn't being punished, but he should never again be in a situation where his urges could get the better of him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roy baty Posted May 30, 2013 Report Share Posted May 30, 2013 (edited) Oh, you have a schizophrenic son too? Go piss up a rope. Obviously this is a topic that is very personal to you. I apologize if what I said offended you personally as it apparently has. It was certainly not directed at the mentally ill in general or your son, just Mr. Li and the acts he performed due to his illness. Again, no personal offense was ever intended here. I cannot even imagine how difficult it would be to have a child with mental illness. Edited May 30, 2013 by roy baty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Squid Posted May 30, 2013 Report Share Posted May 30, 2013 Irrelevant by who's standards, yours? Is someone not allowed to state an opinion without it being labeled as "irrelevant"? By your standards one could also say your opinion of my opinion is also irrelevant. It's irrelevant as to whether he should get escorted leave from the institution that he's in. Wishing he was dead is all well and good.... But he's not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roy baty Posted May 30, 2013 Report Share Posted May 30, 2013 It's irrelevant as to whether he should get escorted leave from the institution that he's in. Wishing he was dead is all well and good.... But he's not. Wished he was dead? Please cite where I stated that. It's not a stretch to believe that had this happened as little as 20 years ago or in the state of Texas he likely would have been shot on site for this is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Squid Posted May 30, 2013 Report Share Posted May 30, 2013 Wished he was dead? Please cite where I stated that. It's not a stretch to believe that had this happened as little as 20 years ago or in the state of Texas he likely would have been shot on site for this is it? Oh. I inferred that Texas of 20 years ago is the ideal that you would like us to strive for. I guess you just said that for no apparent reason. It's even more irrelevant and silly now.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted May 30, 2013 Report Share Posted May 30, 2013 I cannot even imagine how difficult it would be to have a child with mental illness. You should try it knowing how many people there are who wish police could just shoot the insane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted May 30, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2013 (edited) Oh. I inferred that Texas of 20 years ago is the ideal that you would like us to strive for. I guess you just said that for no apparent reason. It's even more irrelevant and silly now.... And the value of this monster's life is what? Please explain. You should try it knowing how many people there are who wish police could just shoot the insane.Most mentally ill people warrant treatment and I feel nothing but compassion for them and their families. However, when their conduct is inimical to civilization that's a very different story. Edited May 30, 2013 by jbg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted May 30, 2013 Report Share Posted May 30, 2013 All mentally ill people warrant compassion - the only thing inimical to civilization is withholding it. Your OP has sweet bugger all to do with treating mental illness with compassion and far more to do with exploiting victims and a near medieval ignorance, fear and loathing of mental illness for the sake of politics. It's a disgrace actually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted May 30, 2013 Report Share Posted May 30, 2013 (edited) All mentally ill people warrant compassion - the only thing inimical to civilization is withholding it. Well said. Most mentally ill people warrant treatment and I feel nothing but compassion for them and their families. However, when their conduct is inimical to civilization that's a very different story. What I don't understand is why you would cease feeling compassion for somebody who commits a horrible act against someone while in an uncontrollable state where they lose their grip on reality and don't know what they're doing, and then later when healthy they have to live with the horrible fact that they've killed someone? This situation could happen to anyone. Just about anyone, under the right stress conditions, can suffer from psychosis. Imagine the terrible fear, confusion, horror, and other unthinkable emotions most will never experience that Mr. Li must have been feeling when he did what he did. Suffering from schizophrenia must be hell on earth, I could imagine few other things a human could experience that would be that frightening and awful. Imagine, for instance, having a conversation with a person sitting next to you that you later find out does not really exist, but instead is a hallucination your mind creates that appears 100% real to you. All that you do seems logical, but to others you look insane talking to an empty chair. These people deserve our compassion. Edited May 30, 2013 by Moonlight Graham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonam Posted May 30, 2013 Report Share Posted May 30, 2013 These people deserve our compassion. But those who are killed by them and their families deserve more, and more importantly, other members of the public deserve to be safeguarded from those whose conditions may cause them to become murderous at any unpredictable moment. Drugs are not 100% effective 100% of the time. Nor is there any reason to spend taxpayer's money on a squad of armed guards to keep this guy under control should he have another episode. This guy needs to be kept inside the mental institution until the end of his days, period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted May 30, 2013 Report Share Posted May 30, 2013 Vince Li brutally murdered another human being. He cut off Tim Maclean's head and started eating him. That is a monster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Squid Posted May 30, 2013 Report Share Posted May 30, 2013 Not a monster. A regular human being with a mental illness that can happen to anyone. There but for the grace of God go I. The emotional rhetoric is just silly. "a monster". Oooohhhh..... Scary! We should all be scared of the monsters!! Grow up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted May 30, 2013 Report Share Posted May 30, 2013 It's not rhetoric. He actually did behead Tim Maclean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted May 30, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2013 Imagine the terrible fear, confusion, horror, and other unthinkable emotions most will never experience that Mr. Li must have been feeling when he did what he did. Suffering from schizophrenia must be hell on earth, I could imagine few other things a human could experience that would be that frightening and awful. Imagine, for instance, having a conversation with a person sitting next to you that you later find out does not really exist, but instead is a hallucination your mind creates that appears 100% real to you. All that you do seems logical, but to others you look insane talking to an empty chair. These people deserve our compassion.Many people experience terrible fear and indeed panic when under the control of a mental illness. Do most kill or cannibalize someone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter F Posted May 30, 2013 Report Share Posted May 30, 2013 Many people experience terrible fear and indeed panic when under the control of a mental illness. Do most kill or cannibalize someone? I don't think so. Never heard of such things happening with any regularity. Mr. Li's case seems pretty exceptional. Your point being what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BubberMiley Posted May 30, 2013 Report Share Posted May 30, 2013 I never judged him, I stated what I feel that he is in my opinion based on his acts. You might have to read this a few times to understand just how funny it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted May 30, 2013 Report Share Posted May 30, 2013 But those who are killed by them and their families deserve more... They deserve compassion not vengeance. That's all Harper is catering to with his legislation that replaces treatment with punishment and hospitals with prisons. There's little to suggest compassion will somehow only be withheld from the highest profile cases given the medieval attitudes and ignorance on display around here regarding mental illness. This is just short term cost cutting election winning legislation that will allow the government to imprison anyone who is mentally ill that commits a crime or runs afoul of the law. This is all about exploiting grieving victims and using fear and loathing to justify cracking down and getting tough. Like many around here, the last thing on Harper's mind is compassion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted May 30, 2013 Report Share Posted May 30, 2013 Compassion is way overrated, particularly when it comes to public safety and repeat offenders, regardless of their mental health status. Lots of people are mentally ill, but few of them harm others in such a way. I guess "hug-a-thug" can be joined with "care-for-cannibals", eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted May 30, 2013 Report Share Posted May 30, 2013 Actually it's vengeance that's overrated, like the phrase repeat offender...what repeat offender? Given the dearth of cases like Li's, stigmatizing millions of other mentally ill people by whipping up public fear and loathing for the sake of a few political brownie points is insane. I guess "hug-a-thug" can be joined with "care-for-cannibals", eh? Sure, if that's all you're really want to accomplish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted May 30, 2013 Report Share Posted May 30, 2013 Actually it's vengeance that's overrated, like the phrase repeat offender...what repeat offender? Given the dearth of cases like Li's, stigmatizing millions of other mentally ill people by whipping up public fear and loathing for the sake of a few political brownie points is insane. Sure, if that's all you're really want to accomplish. I don't care about your personal compassion objectives.....public safety and indeed the safety of the mentally ill take precedence over such feel good sentiments. Police officers and other first responders are ill equipped but still faced with life threatening emergencies presented by the mentally ill. Care givers are put at risk because of psychotic events presented in uncontrolled settings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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