Harper's downfall: Venom and corruption

[jacee]

So can you say unequivocally that the Harper government has surpassed the previous Liberals in terms of the amount of corruption?

Pork barreling yes,Senators(all parties)fudging expenses yes,things that drive me crazy like most of you.But have you seen anything to equal the Sponsorship program,cash filled envelopes etc?

This government is not perfect by a long shot,but the alternatives scare the hell out of me.A spoiled millionaire playboy or Thomas "my lips are sealed!" Mulcair.

We haven't seen it yet, but we will when the Ministers are forced to provide the necessary accounting for the missing $3.1b! Edited May 19, 2013 by jacee

[ironstone]

We haven't seen it yet, but we will when the Ministers are forced to provide the necessary accounting for the missing $3.1b!

So no evidence yet of widespread corruption as there was during the Chretien era.As for the 3.1 billion,there is also no evidence that this money was stolen by Conservatives.Relative to the size of our population,Canada has an enormous government with all the inefficiencies that go with it.Yeah,there's a good chance that a lot of this money got pissed away by the thousands of underworked bureaucrats.

Perhaps it's not the best way to say it,but I believe this government under Harper is by far the best of the worst.

[jacee]

So no evidence yet of widespread corruption as there was during the Chretien era.As for the 3.1 billion,there is also no evidence that this money was stolen by Conservatives.Relative to the size of our population,Canada has an enormous government with all the inefficiencies that go with it.Yeah,there's a good chance that a lot of this money got pissed away by the thousands of underworked bureaucrats.

Perhaps it's not the best way to say it,but I believe this government under Harper is by far the best of the worst.

That's not saying much, and it's not good enough. Is it good enough for you?

The Ministers had complete discretion in spending the missing $3.1b.

That's a LOT of border security stealth gazebos!

And it's 30 times the Liberal pork barrel.

Still ok with you?

Edited May 19, 2013 by jacee

[Argus]

A scandal is Harper failing to account to the taxpayers for $3.1b spent by Ministers, probably in political patronage and payoffs.

That's a LOT of briefcases of golfballs! .

You do realize that program was put in place in 2001 right after 9/11 and most, if not all money was spent during the Liberals' reign, right? The AG report was critical of the departments involved for not keeping better track of spending, but it's hard to say this was Harper's fault.

[Argus]

His office, his responsibility. It all rests with him.

Responsibility, yes, but not culpability. That's a different thing entirely.

[Argus]

Oh, I see. It was all so clear when it was the Chretien Liberals under fire. Nobody had to look up the word scandal in the dictionary.

When it's a matter of the prime minister pressuring a government department to loan money to a criminal who happens to be a business partner, that money never being repaid, and the prime minister firing, and trying to imprison that government department head when he moved to foreclose, well, no, you don't have to look up the term then.

Nor when it involves paper bags full of cash passed across the table in dingy Italian restaurants, and kickbacks to party coffers. No, that's clear.

Some idiot fudging on his expense accounts, well, that's stupid, and perhaps criminal on his part, but it in no way approaches the corruption Chretien was noted for.

[ReeferMadness]

So can you say unequivocally that the Harper government has surpassed the previous Liberals in terms of the amount of corruption?

Pork barreling yes,Senators(all parties)fudging expenses yes,things that drive me crazy like most of you.But have you seen anything to equal the Sponsorship program,cash filled envelopes etc?

This government is not perfect by a long shot,but the alternatives scare the hell out of me.A spoiled millionaire playboy or Thomas "my lips are sealed!" Mulcair.

How can we know? Paul Martin had the guts (or foolishness, take your pick) to instigate a judicial inquiry. That's how we got all the details of the sponsorship mess. Obviously, he hoped that he wouldn't wear it because he had no part in it. He was wrong.

It seems like the Harper Conservatives have learned from his actions. Now, every time there is any kind of scandal, someone falls on his sword or is thrown under the bus. It seems like the Conservatives are better at covering their tracks but that doesn't make them any less corrupt.

Look at their track record:

• In and out scandal
• Tony Clement's misuse of G8 money
• Peter McKay's misuse of military helicopters
• Christian Paradis found guilty of conflict of interest
• The robocalls scandal
• Bev Oda's $16 orange juice
• Repeated use of government funds to promote the Conservative Party (action plan ads, novelty cheques with Conservative brand, etc)
• The ongoing fight with the parliamentary budget officer over access to information
• and now we have the PM's hand-picked right-hand man writing a cheque to a senator accused of stealing money just to thwart an audit

This is just a quick list - I'm sure I'm missing some things. But this does not live up to the picture of a government coming in to clean up Ottawa. In fact, this is the picture of a band of ethically-challenged individuals who can't seem to distinguish between their own money and public funds.

If we start getting the full truth behind some of these events, then maybe we can compare.

[ReeferMadness]

Nor when it involves paper bags full of cash passed across the table in dingy Italian restaurants, and kickbacks to party coffers. No, that's clear.

Speaking of Mulroney, why did he never wind up in jail?

[ReeferMadness]

Judging from the comments, I'm going to guess that some of the same people who spasmed with self-righteous apoplexy during the Chretien years are now falling all over themselves to excuse and rationalize Conservative corruption. Hypocrisy, thy colour is Conservative blue!

[ironstone]

How can we know? Paul Martin had the guts (or foolishness, take your pick) to instigate a judicial inquiry. That's how we got all the details of the sponsorship mess. Obviously, he hoped that he wouldn't wear it because he had no part in it. He was wrong.

It seems like the Harper Conservatives have learned from his actions. Now, every time there is any kind of scandal, someone falls on his sword or is thrown under the bus. It seems like the Conservatives are better at covering their tracks but that doesn't make them any less corrupt.

Look at their track record:

• In and out scandal
• Tony Clement's misuse of G8 money
• Peter McKay's misuse of military helicopters
• Christian Paradis found guilty of conflict of interest
• The robocalls scandal
• Bev Oda's $16 orange juice
• Repeated use of government funds to promote the Conservative Party (action plan ads, novelty cheques with Conservative brand, etc)
• The ongoing fight with the parliamentary budget officer over access to information
• and now we have the PM's hand-picked right-hand man writing a cheque to a senator accused of stealing money just to thwart an audit

This is just a quick list - I'm sure I'm missing some things. But this does not live up to the picture of a government coming in to clean up Ottawa. In fact, this is the picture of a band of ethically-challenged individuals who can't seem to distinguish between their own money and public funds.

If we start getting the full truth behind some of these events, then maybe we can compare.

I like how this government's track record stands against Chretien's in terms of the number and severity of scandals.It surely is not as corrupt as the Chretien years,and don't forget,Conservatives will always face much tougher scrutiny than the NDP or Liberals.

[ReeferMadness]

I like how this government's track record stands against Chretien's in terms of the number and severity of scandals.It surely is not as corrupt as the Chretien years,and don't forget,Conservatives will always face much tougher scrutiny than the NDP or Liberals.

You may like this government's scandals but I think that people less devoted than you are getting tired. Please explain the basis for your claim that Conservatives "always face much tougher scrutiny". This sounds suspiciously like right wing paranoia (the media are out to get us!).

The reason that we know so much about the sponsorship scandal is that Martin brought in Gomery to do an independent review. The reason so many questions remain about all of the Conservative scandals is that they've gotten so good at covering things up and distracting media attention to other things.

[ReeferMadness]

The reason that we know so much about the sponsorship scandal is that Martin brought in Gomery to do an independent review. The reason so many questions remain about all of the Conservative scandals is that they've gotten so good at covering things up and distracting media attention to other things.

Speaking of which, the Conservatives are spending our money on advertising for a program that doesn't even exist!!

But you guys don't care what this government does because it's Harper and he can do no wrong!!

Edited May 19, 2013 by ReeferMadness

[Argus]

Judging from the comments, I'm going to guess that some of the same people who spasmed with self-righteous apoplexy during the Chretien years are now falling all over themselves to excuse and rationalize Conservative corruption. Hypocrisy, thy colour is Conservative blue!

We just know the difference between corruption and piddling stuff of little consequence.

Oh, Peter McKay rode on a helicopter! Stop the presses! The horror! The horror!

[Argus]

Speaking of which, the Conservatives are spending our money on advertising for a program that doesn't even exist!!

But you guys don't care what this government does because it's Harper and he can do no wrong!!

I've criticized Harper a number of times, actually...

[ReeferMadness]

We just know the difference between corruption and piddling stuff of little consequence.

Oh, Peter McKay rode on a helicopter! Stop the presses! The horror! The horror!

McKay appropriated military equipment to be used for his personal transportation. That's obviously an abuse of his position.

Once again, if it were any other party, that would matter to you. But the Conservatives can do now wrong. It's only corrupt if it's the Liberals doing it.

[roy baty]

LibCon ... ConLib ... doesn't matter who's corruption's the story of the day.

Point is it's our money ... they work for us.

And maybe ... just maybe ... we're not going to accept it from either party any more.

By your own logic, given the history of corruption within Liberal caucuses in the past we shouldn't elect them either then right? Perhaps the Green party can offer some true integrity?

[roy baty]

McKay appropriated military equipment to be used for his personal transportation. That's obviously an abuse of his position.

Once again, if it were any other party, that would matter to you. But the Conservatives can do now wrong. It's only corrupt if it's the Liberals doing it.

Any form of government corruption is unacceptable but unfortunately it exists in every government on the planet. However, if one were to choose between the corruption of the Harper government and that of the Chretien and Mulroney governments w/my tax dollars, I choose the much lesser of

3 evils. If it was a Liberal government doing these so-called "horrors" of the Harper government you'd barely hear about it in the press..

[jacee]

Any form of government corruption is unacceptable but unfortunately it exists in every government on the planet. However, if one were to choose between the corruption of the Harper government and that of the Chretien and Mulroney governments w/my tax dollars, I choose the much lesser of

3 evils.

$3b is not less than $100m.

The Conservative pork barrel has barely begun to be exposed.

[roy baty]

$3b is not less than $100m.

The Conservative pork barrel has barely begun to be exposed.

$100m. That's a little light isn't it? Also, please show us the auditor general report showing the $3.1B you claim has gone missing. Your conspiracy theories are just that: theory.

[margrace]

^{Why has Clements spending on the G8 never been really looked into. Bringing huge trailers down from BC to set up a camp for the police and army that cost millions of dollars. Then sending them back.There were no protests in Huntsville, only a little kid on a hill with a sign asking for more cookies. The only problem in Huntsville was at the Emerg at the Hospital looking after bored drunken security people. Clement never offer a cent to the programs the Hospital had to set up to protect Clement's friends and now we are being told that our hospital may be closed. Does Clement care? No he didn't even bother offering any help to Huntsvilles expensive flood problems. I don't even think he bother to show up.}

[scribblet]

^{...... Clement never offer a cent to the programs the Hospital had to set up to protect Clement's friends and now we are being told that our hospital may be closed. Does Clement care? No he didn't even bother offering any help to Huntsvilles expensive flood problems. I don't even think he bother to show up.}

I guess enlarging the font makes it right...

More BS about Clement and you know full well he showed up in your riding and toured the flood areas and has offered help.

No doubt you are also aware that process of Federal flood assistance cannot be provided until requested by the Province. This would be done after the province assesses the situation then makes the request. Mr. Clement has said he will support the request.

http://www.tonyclement.ca/?p=2552

http://www.muskokatodaily.com/?p=14848

http://www.muskokatodaily.com/?p=15009

Edited May 20, 2013 by scribblet

[On Guard for Thee]

Geez, I can only hope all those gazeebos Clement brought in didn't get washed away.

[Topaz]

Is there any way that the people of Canada can call for an early election like THIS Oct? I think the majority of Canadians don't trust and have lost completely confidence and really don't like their reactions in Question Period. I don't know what these people personalities are like (Tories) outside of the House, but they come off a really nasty bully-type people and one wonders how they ever got elected.

[bush_cheney2004]

Is there any way that the people of Canada can call for an early election like THIS Oct? I think the majority of Canadians don't trust and have lost completely confidence and really don't like their reactions in Question Period. I don't know what these people personalities are like (Tories) outside of the House, but they come off a really nasty bully-type people and one wonders how they ever got elected.

Yes...one wonders just how they got elected. Mystery solved: The Tories got more votes / ridings from the voting electorate.

[On Guard for Thee]

I have to agree with you TOPAZ The times I have been able to tune into QP in the last few weeks just makes me shake my head. To call it dysfunctional is truly an understatement.

I have seen the publication of a letter that a Canadian woman wrote to the Queen asking her to disolve parliament and therefore call an early election. Some research I have done seems to claim that if the GG and the Queen could both be convinced that the current government was not following the Constitution, they could so act, but it also indicated that that would be highly unlikely. So, I guess we are stuck for the better part of two more years.

The cons. have remained true to form right to the wire: as the house was on the eve of the summer recess, the PMO's office tried to anonymously pass info to a Barrie Ontario newspaper about a speaking engagemnet Justin Trudeau was paid for back in '07. Um, that was before he was even an MP. What kind of dirty pool is that? Oh yeah, it's the kind we have just been talking about, and which will surely continue come the fall.

Kudo's to that Barrie paper.